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#121303 - 09/21/09 08:39 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
A double layer gives you a place to put the pad. Throwing the pad in a single layer works, but I can tell you from experience that if you use a quilt and don't have something between your base layer and the pad, you'll stick to ccf. Pads also have a habit of shifting on you, or in the case of a thermarest a little too well inflated, squirt out from under you; the pad pocket defeats this tendency. In a tent, I was the one rolling off the pad; in a hammock, I didn't have a lot of trouble with a ccf even in the Hennessy, other than my long johns sticking to it. I could have fixed that with a sleeve made of ripstop over the pad, but chose the Blackbird for additional reasons.

A Blackbird has a footbox to make it easier to put yourself on the diagonal. Most gathered end hammocks have a "ridge" that can be dealt with by laying on the diagonal, and the wider the hammock/the more sag you use, the easier this is.

The Blackbird has tie outs, a shelf, a lot of room (least claustrophobic I've encountered), a fixed ridgeline (sets the sag of the hammock regardless of the distance between trees), and a full bugnet with a full length zipper that's integrated in such a way that it doesn't impact the lay of the hammock whether you actually zip up at night or throw the netting back. (Last six overnights I haven't bothered to zip up.) The rings/straps of the Blackbird (on the strap option) are easier to fiddle with to raise/lower or center the hammock - but any hammock can be updated to rings or a ring buckle on the suspension with little effort.

Speer type hammocks are fairly simple and lack a lot of the features possible with the Blackbird. Brandon also customizes the Blackbird - puts the footbox on the other side if you want, or uses heavier or lighter material you provide, etc.

I can tell you that if you order a Blackbird and don't like it, you can make a little money - they disappear off ebay for more than you pay new. Some people don't like the waiting list. I watched one sell at hammockforums.net within an hour of posting - bam, gone.

This is not to sell you on the hammock - I just have no experience with a Speer. Lots of people like the Speer just fine. I just have no reason to get one now that I have a Blackbird, no weight savings there to be had, nor does it have some of the other features I've grown accustomed to having. If I were to recommend to someone who has no inclination to tweak or geek on the hammock, it would be a Blackbird every time, simply because it's so straightforward, no knots to tie, good workmanship, and the strap option has worked so well with our huge California pines, firs and cedars.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

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#121305 - 09/21/09 08:50 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
Speer hammocks are end gathered hammocks and are designed to slept in diagonally. This is also the simplist form of hammock to make for yourself. The Blackbird is an asymetrical hammock with side pull outs. It is unique in that it has a foot box and shelf.
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#121379 - 09/23/09 01:43 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: thecook]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
I see. I really like multi use gear. Like i have the gatewood cape as rain gear and a tarp...really more like a floorless tent. I was thinking of making an 8x8 tarp to be a rain fly and a poncho. The big problem is i am not sure how much protection a 8x8 offers. I know the 8x10s are great but may be to large to make a poncho? What might be some thoughts on this issue?

Ill add almost three pounds if i switch to a hammock.
Speer set up-38oz
under quilt- 12-17oz
rain gear-14z
Oh yes and the comfort factor is worth the weight, just trying to keep it light and safe.

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#121410 - 09/23/09 02:50 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: 300winmag]
ndsol Offline
member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 673
Loc: Houston, Texas
I am open to trying out new ways, but I have yet to see either a tarp or a hammock being used by anyone else on any of my backcountry trips. The vast majority of my trips are within 50 miles of the Continental Divide from Colorado to British Columbia. When I have tarped, I have been the only one.

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#121424 - 09/23/09 11:13 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Click the link in my signature and look at some real weights. I use a speer type hammock and have for years. I sleep diagonally in it just fine. My speer weighs 731 grams all in. My tarp with stakes and lines for overtop of it weighs 616 grams. I don't use an underquilt. I use a wide blue foam pad (about 250 grams) in the hammock and an integral designs silponcho (262 grams) as an underhammock windblock which I can also stuff insulation into (such as space blankets or some poly batt insulation). Heck, ask food - he saw me three purposing it last week, and I was warm down to the low 40's in nasty wind with no insulation other than the pad and the poncho

But don't get me wrong. Hammocks are *heavier* I could take the same rig and save the 700 grams of the hammock and sleep on the ground. I just would not be as comfortable. If you have a light pad that you can sleep on comfortably, you will have a lighter load with a tarp or solo tent than you will a hammock. On the other hand you won't get me out of my hammock usually except for weather below -10C, or a distinct lack of trees.


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Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#121431 - 09/24/09 12:09 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: phat]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
Oh yeah my pack weight might be around yours. I like the idea of using poncho as a wind breaking "taco". The only reason i consider weight is because i am attempting the PCT this coming summer and pack weight is kinda important. I think it would be wicked to hike the PCT in comfort and style grin

What I have decided is to see the benefit cost ratio. Like if i sleep so well in a hammock I can pump out more mile because I am rested. I my mind I say yes, but in practice this might not be true. I just plan on buying a hammock and doing a few over nights, then put it in really test for a week long. Basically I plan on using the hammock for all other backpacking trips.

I also can decide on trying out an air sleep pad for my ground set up...maybe ill sleep just as well wink

Phat what might be the reason that you dont use an under quilt? I plan on using a sleeping pad regardless if i get an under quilt or not. Also what the dimensions of your tarp? Its great because you are using all the idea with the space blankets and batting with the "taco". How is that working out, any problems or tip?

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#121434 - 09/24/09 12:54 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Bushman
Oh yeah my pack weight might be around yours. I like the idea of using poncho as a wind breaking "taco". The only reason i consider weight is because i am attempting the PCT this coming summer and pack weight is kinda important. I think it would be wicked to hike the PCT in comfort and style grin


Weight will be important to you on a PCT hike, but I think if you ask some of the experienced thu-hiker types here (I am not one of them) you'll find they tend to keep a few creature comforts and not go for strictly the lightest weight possible on a long hike like that.

Quote:

What I have decided is to see the benefit cost ratio. Like if i sleep so well in a hammock I can pump out more mile because I am rested. I my mind I say yes, but in practice this might not be true. I just plan on buying a hammock and doing a few over nights, then put it in really test for a week long. Basically I plan on using the hammock for all other backpacking trips.


If you are thinking benefit/cost or benefit/weight I think you are on the right track.

Quote:

Phat what might be the reason that you dont use an under quilt? I plan on using a sleeping pad regardless if i get an under quilt or not. Also what the dimensions of your tarp? Its great because you are using all the idea with the space blankets and batting with the "taco". How is that working out, any problems or tip?


I don't use an underquilt for three main reasons

1) It's a heavy, single use piece of gear. My blue pad is lighter by a lot, and my poncho is used for more than one thing. Oh, my blue pad is also my packframe...

2) I can (and semi regularly do) go to ground and sleep under my tarp on my trekking poles on the blue pad. This is very useful when I'm on a multi-day trip with a day or two above treeline.

3) I've figured out how to stay warm without it!


tips? Try it first on short trips, make sure your insulation goes up high enough on the sides to warm your love handles.

Note, my poncho works well for this because it is an integral designs silponcho which has a stretchy shockcord sewn in the bottom hem of the poncho. this means that one end gets tied tight to one end of the hammock with cord, the other end is tied by the shockcords and stretches..
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Winter list.
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#121453 - 09/24/09 06:48 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: phat]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
Cool, good info.
Not sure i have love handles...

I might just stick to home made gear and test it all this winter... ill have to post my set up when i get it worked out.

Thanks

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#121524 - 09/26/09 02:31 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: phat]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon


Quote:


I don't use an underquilt for three main reasons

1) It's a heavy, single use piece of gear.



I disagree with you on this point, buddy. I use a Jacks-R-Better No Sniveller and it is both my 3 season under quilt AND my puffy insulation jacket when the weather gets colder.

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Wearable%20Quilts.htm

You are correct when you say that hammocks and under quilts are heavy when compared to a plain old ground set up ( tarp, quilt/bag and pad), but i find that the weight penalty is minimal. In my case, about a pound was added by using my hammock/under quilt/tarp combo versus a pad/quilt/tent. But, BOY AM I SLEEPING BETTER wink

BF cool

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Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#121542 - 09/26/09 09:47 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: bigfoot2]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
I also think that some under quilts like the yeti aren't all that heavy around 12oz? Also you can still use an UQ on the ground...under the sleeping bag grin

Yeah my problem is i have a very light ground system ha ha, not to bad of a weight increase, possibly around 2-3lbs. For sure ill try and find light weight ways of staying warm.

Hammock ships monday laugh

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#121566 - 09/27/09 03:43 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Bushman
I also think that some under quilts like the yeti aren't all that heavy around 12oz? Also you can still use an UQ on the ground...under the sleeping bag grin



Waste of a quilt - the compression will do away with any warmth. Put it over the sleeping bag, it will do you some good. Get a better pad or add a foam pad for more warmth underneath.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121573 - 09/27/09 09:54 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
Oh... i ment above the user and under the sleeping bag...like a liner.
Anyway camped out along the river last night though i was in a rope hammock we all slept well with i nice brisk jump off the bridge into the river...good morning wake up.

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#121649 - 09/29/09 05:27 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: 300winmag]
scottyb Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas Hill Country
You can add me as a newbie hammocker. I ordered my double 1.7 Blackbird last weekend, two weeks for delivery. Although it would have been of little use on my recent adventure, 9 nights on the ground in Grand Canyon sold me. The jury will be out, but I was determined to try something different.
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Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.... Pericles (430 B.C)

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#121652 - 09/29/09 06:17 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: scottyb]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Originally Posted By scottyb
You can add me as a newbie hammocker. I ordered my double 1.7 Blackbird last weekend, two weeks for delivery. Although it would have been of little use on my recent adventure, 9 nights on the ground in Grand Canyon sold me. The jury will be out, but I was determined to try something different.


Umm . . . where are you going to find hanging opportunities in GC??
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Human Resources Memo: Floggings will continue until morale improves.

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#121656 - 09/29/09 07:26 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Keith]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
A decent tarp like the Speer Winter Tarp makes for MUCH better room than a tent. A simple lift with trekking poles creates a very spacious front porch from within a hammock.



This setup allowed for excellent views of the surrounding area and withstood two nights of significant thunderstorms this past weekend.
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#121657 - 09/29/09 07:38 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Keith]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Same place I found to hang above 10,000 feet - in trees. It only takes two.

You'd be surprised at the places hammockers find to hang. Sometimes you can make do with a couple rocks. Some hammockers take pads just in case and bivy on the ground. It all depends...

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121658 - 09/29/09 07:52 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Keith]
scottyb Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas Hill Country
Quote:
Umm . . . where are you going to find hanging opportunities in GC??


Not likely or at least a pretty low percentage of the time. That's why I said it would have been of little use.

I did however get some very creative ideas from the HF bunch, using rock climbing gear as anchors and anchoring one tree to another for reinforcement. In reality, in GC along the river, it would have been a challenge, not impossible.

My GG White Lightening, which I did use in GC, will be a perfect fit for my new hammock and will remain my shelter of choice in the desert. I do like that "front porch" idea.


Edited by scottyb (09/29/09 07:55 PM)
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Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.... Pericles (430 B.C)

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#121687 - 09/30/09 01:09 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Keith]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Keith,

I have hung in the Grand Canyon. The corridor and threshold areas are not hammock friendly. It helps to hike solo.

On a river trip a hammock stand would be worth it.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#121788 - 10/02/09 08:28 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: ringtail]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
Got my speer hammock in the other day. Haven't been able to set it up because the tree trunks in my backyard are much to big. I might go to the local lake and try it out there.

I am rigging up an underquilt from a existing down quilt at home. It covers from my head to my feet. As far a i can tell i dont think i want to try a synthetic UQ but u may rig my synthetic sleeping quilt in the same way.

CANT WAIT!

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