I do go to REI to try out the different items they have that I am interested in esp shoes. I want to get a pair that fit me right as sizes seem to change every yr! I check around to get the best price on any item I am wanting to purchase. One thing that REI has going for it is it's no questions asked return policy.

Only bad thing about some of the small cottage companies is trying to find someone who may just happen to carry it. There are some packs that I would like to see up close and try out but unfortunatley that is hard to do unless you know someone who has one.

If one of those "cottage" packs you're interested in is the Six Moon Designs packs, you might call Sun Dog Outfitters in Damascus, VA. I was down that way last week, and saw the SMD packs in their store (While I was there, I acquired a Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone, with a custom fitting by the GG rep who happened to be there. Took it right out to the Grayson Highlands for 2 full days of backpacking. Hi, I'm Glenn, and I'm a gearaholic...) I don't know where you are in Tennessee, but it might be close enough to drive over to Damascus?

("Cottage" is not exactly accurate in describing many of these products, given the level of workmanship and attention to detail)

thanks Glenn I will keep that in mind. I didn't realize they carried the SMD packs. Damascus is 5 hrs away but I do make it over that way quite a bit.

I agree it isn't but it seems to be the label that is put on them since they are a small run company.

Any possibility that some retailers abuse customers with inflated prices?

I remember when EMS first opened (early 1970s), everyone could afford it, even poor students. Seems to have become . . . yuppified these days and out of my price range. REI has a good line of store-brand equipment and sales, so I try to both demo and purchase there when possible.

I think there is a set of consumer behavior patterns that ALL retailers have to take into consideration; it's just the law of capitalist competition. We need information, access to goods, service, and the lowest possibe price, same as when I buy a car or any other item. If I can find all of those necessary components of my purchase at one store, and even better allocal store, I'm ecstatic. If that doesn't happen, I have to piece together those components at different stores. I don't think the consumer shold be blamed for the lack of local retailers, lack of inventory at local retailers, or high prices that drive them elsewhere. I'm not talking about saving "a few nickels," but savings of up to 60%.

If I were the president of, say, EMS,
I would be thinking, "Hmm . . .lots of people are coming into our stores, trying on backpacks, and buying those packs online. Why aren't they buying them from EMS? What do we need to change to get them to buy here?" Any store that's NOT thinking in those terms in this economy is going to be in trouble.

Do you feel compelled to buy a car from the first dealer where you do a test drive? Or do you test drive the car and then do some more research to find the best price?

There is a bit of a difference here. I wouldn't do my test drives at a dealer with the intent of buying online for less money. I would, however, shop around first. That includes online.

When that car needs service, I suggest the B&M shop send the customer to the online seller.

There is some truth to the comments (some yours, some from others) regarding B&M stores needing to be competitive. But the original issue comes back, the intent of the customer in making the B&M do the work and then giving the sale to the online store.

I guess we all have to decide for ourselves if we want to live in a world with only online stores or with B&M stores also.

OK, here's an arbitray example. You go to your local EMS with the best of intentions to learn about backpacks and see what they have. You're not looking for a specific pack, you just need to start somewhere to educate yourself. The salesperson urges you to try on several different packs. The Gregory Baltoro seems to fit your needs (sorry, bad example as it's very heavy), but you need to think about it before spending that much money on a backpack. Here's what your comparison shopping reveals:

EMS $289
REI $289
Backcountry.com $246
Campmor $240
MoonTrail $239
Base Gear $232
Oregon Mountain Community $230
Tahoe Mountain Sports $216.71
Campsaver $216.71
Sierra Trading Post $180 (2007 model?)

I guess the question is, to save $73 would I choose to buy from Campsaver, even if it means having "stolen" the time of the EMS salesperson? That $73 becomes very significant when multiplied by several pieces of equipment across several sports. In the past year I've bought major equipment for hiking, backpacking, skiing, and kayaking, and smaller items for all of those plus biking. I'm guessing that shopping for the best price has saved me between $500 and $1000 in the past year.

Is it the premise of some posters that getting information from a store creates an obligation to purchase? I think that getting information is only the first step of a potentintial purchase. An actual purchase depends on much more than information.

In your case, it appears that saving the cash outlay trumps everything else. At least that is the only variable you identify in your hypothetical scenario . . .

I would hate for there to be a system wherein some gestapo for fair consumer behavior could collar you -- or anyone else -- for materialistic behavior. If you can live with it, so be it. What has been pointed out here is that some folk are recognizing the presence of other issues and are exemplifying other values. Also that whatever your values, there may be real long-term consequences for behavior that is of short-term advantage.

It's not about establishing some hard-and-fast rule but an invitation to consider the bigger picture and allow some other values and principles to enter into your decision making process as a consumer.

Again, intent is important. If you're going to the store to touch, feel, try on, and get info about a specific piece of gear knowing full well that you have no intention of buying it there, but giving the sales person the idea that you may buy one, then I think you've abused the store.

In your example, you really didn't know what you were doing; you stop in and the clerk says, "May I help you?" You say, "I'm looking for a pack, mostly just browsing, and don't really know what I want. I'm not going to buy one today; I want to shop around and check out some other brands." Now the clerk has a choice: spend his time with the other customers who are buying, or spend time with you hoping to develop a new (hopefully loyal) customer. But at least he knows what game he's playing. We've all done that.

Then, if you find it somewhere else, I don't think you're obliged to go back to the first store.

Ethics is what you do when no one is watching.

I appreciate all of your points. I posted my question not mainly to state my own opinion, but to find out how others feel about this issue. I have learned from the replies.

Saving money is not my only objective. We have all learned what happens when a cheap retailer runs all the smaller stores out of town. We all lose in the end.

I think my points are about as valid as others'. That reflects that there is a real dilemma afoot---how to offer consumers good products and service, at reasonable cost to consumers and reasonable profit to retailers. This is the challenge to all enterprises in our economy. The winners are the retailers who think creatively to lower the cost of goods while making a fair profit. That is most difficult for the small local retailer. Of course I want to see those small stores survive. The question is how to do that within my own limited economic means.

I recently bought a kayak from a very small local shop. I chose that shop because they had both the best price and the best service. That winning combination means they have enough customers to make a profit, even while maintaining low prices.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is fair treatment of small retailers by manufacturers. The responsibility for supporting small local shops doesn't rest only with consumers. We have not addressed why prices are so high at local shops in the first place.

In this day and age, expanding one's business via the internet is an option that is available to most shops. Recently I bought a backpack from a shop that did nothing more than phone the manufactuer and ask them to send me the pack. The transaction involved virtually no overhead cost for the retailer. How can small local shops compete with internet retailers? By joining them.