I have two weeks off and I am planning a roadtrip of all camping and some backpacking and hiking mixed in.

I was initially really wanting to head up through Montana and make Waterton, Banff, and Jasper focal points. I've lived in Montana done a lot of backpacking in griz country....but that was before I got my dog and am second guessing the safety aspect. I have done some research on this site and have talked to a few avid backpacking friends about taking dogs into the backcountry...in griz country. I'm just not getting a lot of stong opinions.

My dog is a well behaved 3 year old German Shepheard mix. I am a very courteous pet owner and strictly follow all backcountry etiquette concerning dogs. I always keep her on a leash.

With the German Shepherd in her, she can become quite protective of me. I backpack almost every weekend in the summer (solo) and she always lets me know when anything or anyone is coming close. Which is why I am concerned about grizzly, if we round a corner and see a bear on the trail she will go into protective mode (barking and growling) which I fear with threaten the bear which will prompt the bear to minimize the threat i.e. attack the dog or myself.

To minimize bear contact I was thinking of camping front country and just doing day hikes. Would that be any better though?

Because I am going solo I really want to take her with me and will sacrifice going to the Canadian Rockies this time around.

If I don't go to Alberta I will most likely head to the pacific northwest. Any good suggestions for backpacking in that area?

Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestions.

I understand your concerns about the trail. Is she that protective of you when you come upon a deer for example? I know that my dog will not start barking/growling until he figures out what it is and if he can win a fight.

I would try to take your dog if you can. I like having mine on solos. The main problem is that they are not allowed on trails in National Parks.

NO!! NO NO NO NO!!

Sorry, as a local I can't object more to the advice to bring a dog in grizzly country in Alberta. It is typically exactly the WRONG thing to do.

The typical encounter with a grizzly (I've had a few of them) if you've been doing your homework and they realize you're there they take off immediately. If they're close, you often end up talking to the bear, and ensuring they are aware of you and you're not afraid, but not aggressive. again, they wander off.

What often has happened with people with dogs is that second scenario changes when the trusty fido barks and chases after the grizzly, being protective of his two legged alpha. Now you have a problem where the bear ends up tangling with the dog. If it was left at that, bad enough, but then of course you will go try to "rescue" your dog from a now annoyed grizzly. You now are tangled up with a bear. Result? Maybe dead dog, Maybe dead you, Absolutely certainly dead bear (they'll shoot it after this incident).

We have few enough bears in the eastern slopes in Alberta, and yes, I care about "our" bears. I like seeing them.

Use your brain, *read up* on the subject, listen and take the advice from the local rangers, properly store your food, carry bear spray and you will be absolutely fine. A dog will make an encounter *worse* not better.

Sorry to jump on the post, but there - you now have a stong opinion. Get real advice from the places you're going, carry some bear spray, be careful and make noise while hiking, you'll be fine. Leave the dog at home and take her on your trips not in bear country, she'll love you for that. (I only take my dog when I am *NOT* in bear country)

Perhaps you should tell that to the park ranger that had his Leonberger on the Rockwall trail.

It depends on the dog and its reaction to external stimuli. The dog can help alert you to a potential encounter and make the bear perhaps slightly less likely to attack if there are two instead of one animals in front of it.

My first dog I would have never considered taking out because of the protectiveness exhibited. My current one is different.

I'm going to have to agree with Phat on this. I'm personally not overly fond of the idea of taking dogs out on hiking trips in grizzly country.

You never really know how your dog will handle running into a bear until you do, and you sure don't want to find out the hard way. You could run into a Griz without a dog and end up being fine as it heads in the other direction. A dog could set something off that wouldn't otherwise happen.

Plus, my experience is that most places that have girrzly bears are going to have wolves, and wolves concern me far more than bears when it comes to dogs. I've seen way too many stories where wolves end up attacking dogs for the pure fact that there's another canine in their territory.

For example, my Dad debated bringing the dog along on this last trip of ours. I convinced him otherwise though telling him what a just told you. Lo and behold that first night out, less than half a mile away were a pack of wolves howling well into the darker hours. And they ended up venturing only 100 yards from our camp at some point in the night as we discovered the next morning. Had we brought the dog with us, they would have been in camp.

Not trying to scare you or anything, at the end of the day you are going to make up your own mind. But just based on my own humble opinion and experiences, I would not bring my dog into the backcountry where there are grizzlys and wolves. I'd much rather leave them home where I know they'll be fine and I know know my safety out there is all on me.

I have to agree with Phat and MattnID. The stories I heard concerning dogs + bears in the area I grew up in AK were all second-hand, but they considered dogs in the backcountry to be a bad idea. In one case multiple dogs got killed by a grizzly, and in the other a bear (black/brown, I don't know) stalked a loose dog into its owner's camp. The second scenario is concerning because it depends on the reaction of the bear, not the dog.

I've also seen several dog/wolf half-breeds around my hometown. These didn't happen from human intervention - either some dogs in heat went feral & were accepted into a wolfpack, or some wolves managed to mate with some town dogs. An elder told me that they were unsual because wolf packs usually killed dogs if they found one in their territory. I don't know if that's true.

I am an east coast boy and don't know about grizzly country but I do know about dogs and hiking in black bear country with a dog. I know dogs from training police K9 and protection dogs over the years. Its always better safe than sorry but in black bear wilderness areas at least you know the the bear isn't looking at your dog as food. i have encountered a bear while my dog was off leash, dogs normaly protect there owner by standing guard, staying close to them, barking and looking to pack leader (you) for direction. Thats what my dog does, he only chases thing that he believes are prey, they do not chase to protect.

All that being said I would never take my dog where it could really be prey, I am planning a week in the Bob Marshall next year and would never consider taking my dog.

I worry enough about coyotes at night and make my dog sleep in the tent cause of coyotes circling camp at night, but fortunately my dog marks the perimeter of camp and the coyotes don' seem to come into camp

My previous Samoyed was a great hiking and backpacking partner...anyone/thing that carries my tent automatically qualifies as, "great." We did the VA/MD/WV area alot and did some pretty dense grizzly country in AK but I won't do dogs in grizzly country again. There is just too much risk.

More than one dog has been chased by a bear back to it's master. If I remember correctly, an Idaho mauling last year took place basically on the victim's porch after his dog was chased home by a gizzly. If the trail dog is not free running then, aside from what happens in camp, one has an additional worry/problem dealing with sudden bear encounters on the trail (which, I think, most problem encounters are).

My current Sam is old and arthritic and doesn't hike or camp with me. His successor won't either in most of my home range of western MT. As much as I love taking my dog and as much as that wonderful former companion loved camping, I reluctantly agree with Phat...

Girzzly country is no place for dogs or people with dog's.

IMO.

FB

I think it depends on where you are and how habituated the bears are to dogs and people, and generally how aggressive (i.e. stressed) the bears are while you are visiting. If dogs were automatically bear magnets then there would be no dogs in Anchorage, and there are certainly plenty of them, mostly (to my dismay) off leash. You are right to ask the question about bears in certain locations. Bear behavior can vary widely from location to location, so it is important to gain general knowledge about the species as well as specific knowledge about the bears in the habitat you are visiting.

My current 4-legged hiking partner (whom I borrow) alerted me to fresh bear scat but ignored old scat on a hike we did a couple of weeks ago. In fact one pile we encountered he wanted nothing to do with and actually turned back on the trail. I later learned tat the scat was at least 3 hours old, although it looked pretty darn fresh. Three hours later when we walked across it again he wasn't interested in it at all. I don't know what he would have done had we actually seen a bear. He probably would have refused to walk toward it and probably would have blocked me from continuing forward as well. He will certainly hike with me again.

MNS

Many people hike with dogs in the areas I travel In BC Canada. Mostly there are black bears, and. I have seen a black bear chased away by a small terrier. In the kilometers I have hiked so far, I have very seldom sighted a bear. (In fact we get more black bears in town). There are likely grizzlies around too, but encounters seem very rare. At least we don’t read about them. I am more concerned about cougars. They say there is a large numbers of cougars around where I live, and also in my favorite spots such as Manning Park. I have never come across one yet though. I did meet a couple yesterday hiking with their dog who said they sighted a couple of bobcats recently. Personally I feel that I have a far greater chance of falling off a cliff or being hit by a falling tree than of animal attack. Like Alaska, BC has many grizzlies, black bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes and even wolverines. They go with the territory. Dogs or no dogs, they all could pose a problem. I dare say there are few places in BC where you could say there are none of the above, so many hikers will take their dogs and hope for the best.

There were a couple of hikers once who got chased by a cougar. One of the hikers stopped to put on his running shoes. The other hiker said “you are crazy, you cannot outrun a cougar”. No he said, I just have to outrun you

Howie

Here's a video of a house cat chasing a black bear from what appears to be a backyard... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RIgQdpZDeY This one purports to show a tree-ed black bear intimidated by a house cat on the ground, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb4iwv5flZo

FB

While I don't want to make light of how you should treat a black bear, two important points to remember:

1) one video of a stupid bear does not mean this is how all
bears react.

2) Black bear != Grizzly bear - and the OP is talking about
Grizzlies, not Black Bears.

(I don't worry about having my dog with me where there aren't grizzlies)

One problem we face is how do we know for sure there are no grizzlies in a given area? I tend to assume that an area heavily populated by black bear wont have grizzlies due to the fact that a grizzly will chase a black bear away. On the other hand though, I think it could be true that grizzly bears are where you find them. I do know that Swan Hills Alberta is known for grizzlies. phat is likely correct concerning places like that. Dogs might not be such a good idea.

Howie

Once again, I agree with phat. And kitty kats that act like the two examples I light-heartedly posted often end up as dessert.

So, while we're de-mything the cute, funny black bear I might as well toss into the mix that, if the area supports free-running black bears it probably supports owls and hawks and the like which will one day carry those kitty kats away. That's one reason why my cat is on tether and closely watched when outside...

Bears, lions, wolves and coyotes are among the threats to dogs. Dogs on-leash are at risk in such areas, dogs off-leash probably more so. Owners have the responsibility to take extra precaution which may mean leaving the pet at home or even keeping it inside at home. I have the good fortune to lo live in an area that has them all..my pets are watched very closely indeed.

FB

My bear bio pals have shown me videos of grizzlies chasing down and killing black bears. the black bear is running full out for his life and the grizzly looks like he's not breaking a sweat and casually swatting a bug. wasn't pretty actually. I've been told grizzlies generally won't tolerate black bears and will kill them as a competitor.


I hunt moose in the Swan Hills area, and yes, I've seen grizzly sign, but not for many years, I don't believe there is still a viable population in the area. I count myself as incredibly fortunate to have seen one there when I was 14. (I didn't think I was fortunate at the time, I was scared half to death, because he circled aroung me to get my scent, I was downwind.. He took off as soon as he knew what I was (a freaked out screaming 14 year old kid with a rifle) I thank my dad and everything he taught me to this day that I yelled at him instead of trying to shoot.

Most places if you do any kind of research you can know if there are grizzlies in the area.

(BTW, I do take my dog out in swan hills)

I guess I'm going against the forum wisdom here, but I can think of a couple instances where a dog can save your life in a bear encounter. The dog may be killed, but you can survive.

First of all I'm talking about the encounters where the bear will likely attack you. Things like you stumbling upon a kill site, or bumping into a sow with cubs, or a simple predatory attack. The dog's senses are much keener than yours and will pick up on the "bear near by" smell/sound long before you - which gives you an opportunity to back out of there or at least get ready. The dog's protective nature will help distract the bear in an attack, which might give you precious opportunity to get out of Dodge.

I'm a firm believer that the "play dead" philosophy is male bovine excrement and that aggressive bears need to die of high-speed lead poisoning. A dog or two gives you a margin in which to survive.

1) Stumbling on a kill site is much more rare than a regular encounter, when the aggression of a dog will likely make it worse. Sow with cubs, same problem as a regular attack. (You also shouldn't "stumble on them" - I saw a grizzly sow with a cub a month ago. And trust me they wanted nothing to do with me and hightailed it away from me)

2) In the event of a predatory attack, forget it unless you've got a 12 guage.. Kiss your butt goodbye. These are very very rare, planning for such a rare thing in a way that makes it worse in the typical encounter is silly. If you're truly worried about a predatory attack just don't come into bear country.

3) In the unlikely event of a predatory attack or something where the dog "distracts" the bear, I agree, a dog attacking the bear could distract it long enough for you to get out of dodge. but ONLY:

A) IF YOU'RE WILLING TO LEAVE THE DOG! (I'd have a very hard time leaving mine - and I suspect anyone else with a K9 hiking companion would have a similarly hard time. Personally you'd be asking me *almost* the same thing as leaving my wife or one of my kids to distract the bear while I took off)

AND

B) Once you retreat, if your wounded dog (and it's gonna be wounded really quick if not outright dead) doesn't follow you for protection, therefore bringing somthing right on his heels. Better hope the bear kills the dog before the dog figures out you've decided you're not helping. So before you do this maybe you should test it with someone beating your dog with a baseball bat while you run away and see if the dog slinks back to you or not once it's been hurt.. Seriously.. I'm being nasty here but it's a big big deal..

I don't think the "dog distracting a bear" logic works when the rubber hits the road. sorry. You're far better off with bear spray and some noise, and common sense. If you truly can't handle that, Go get a folding stock 12 guage and load it up with slugs and buck and carry that - hopefully you won't use that unless absolutely necessary and it won't (like the dog) get you in more trouble in a casual encounter while helping you out in the very worst case.

I don't know the stats on predatory versus defensive attacks. Depending on whose books you read (James Shelton), predatory attacks are much more common than is reported.

Close to water, wind blowing in your face - yes, you can walk right up on a bear. My nose isn't good enough, but my dog's is - he would pick up on the bear scent right away.

Slugs, Brenneke preferably, no buck. Bear spray is lighter and cheaper, but it won't make a bad bear dead - which is needed sometimes.

Your right, it would be hard to leave the dog. But like a lot of nasty scenarios, you have to think it through ahead of time because making the wrong choice while under stress can kill you.

A good discussion. I think a dog is an asset, not a liability in bear country. But nobody pays me for my opinion.

Most parks and forest suggest that you keep your dog on leash, which actually makes a dog more aggressive, it can't chase a bear while on leash, but my dog doesn't leave my side when we see a bear, he does bark and look to me for direction, but on leash I think he would go ape@%#*. He is always off leash in wilderness areas but I'm east coast so only black bears, no grizzlies.
I would be stupid enough to stay with my dog during a bad bear encounter, no doubt about it, I like him more than most people and he is family. I would put my money on my wife over a bear every time, that bear would have no idea the mess he would be getting into fighting her.
I truthfully worry more about coyotes at night concerning my dog then anything else

Well I dunno about that with my wife, she's an accountant and kind of a city girl. OH WAIT. you've now completely solved the dilemma for me. well, almost. I no longer will need to carry bear spray or worry about my dog.. All I have to do is find a way to ensure I can make a receipt show up at the time of the encounter indicating that the Grizzly has been spending money online on backpacking gear, and the bear is doomed. The largest most habituated man-stalking grizzly on the planet will run yelping with it's tail between it's legs when facing the wrath of the CFO...

Now.. to just make the Grizzly's delivery address mine for that Warbonnet Blackbird

Resistence if futile. I let a guy lay in mine two weeks ago and he ordered the next day.

Bigfoot and I both have BlackBirds. You are doomed.

The reason I still order alot from REI is I can have it delivered to the store,its free shipping and I can sneak it in the house otherwise theres a box on the step when she gets home

Once again, you made me laugh so hard I spit all over my computer screen! . . . receipt . . . CFO . . . too funny!