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#104258 - 10/18/08 11:56 AM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Jimshaw]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
Jimshaw,
I gotta agree and disagree on a coupla things. Practice and training are certainly key. A good paddler can make up for a poor boat, but the best boat cannot make up for a poor paddler. And I agree about using a feathered stroke instead of the old J-stroke.

Double or single paddles? Canoes have used both since before pale-faces landed. Double paddles are ideal for small solo canoes and paddlers figured that out long ago. BTW, both Russel and Rushton used double paddles in their solo canoes. One reason the double paddle was common in solo canoes was that narrow, fast solo (and structurally sophisticated) boats were used for going upstream and the double paddle gives an advantage there.

In regard to stability, one must account for the metronome (or pendulum) effect. A low center of mass (COM) has a faster period of oscillation than a high COM. A kayak may feel more stable initially, but when it tips, it tips quickly. A kneeling paddler in a canoe has a lot more time to put out a brace because when a high COM starts to tip, it moves slowly. That is one reason the Eskimo roll is so important for yakers; they are more likely to need it.

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#104259 - 10/18/08 01:10 PM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Spock]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Spock

Hey
They period of oscillation is most important in a gunship, so when firing broadside salvos the ship has enough stability to hit the target. Firing sideways in a canoe with a shotgun is a good way to get wet. However I can stand up in a canoe and fly fish and I realise that a canoe is a lot like a motorcycle in that the rider keeps it upright with his balance. I was always sort of jealous of the low center of gravity and backrests of kayaks, maybe the envy was misplaced.

phat - you'll just have to take lessons. [Whoa - hey you could fly me up there and I'll teach ya to canoe] <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Remember - no plastic blades. A wooden paddle with some thickness in the middle can have "lift" whereas the plastic does not. Are you pretty nimble? I know yer a big guy - you might like the more spacious feeling and cargo capacity of a canoe over a kayak, as long as your knees can take it.

For me with aging knees, I find myself sitting in the seat sometimes, but more often than not - kneeling on a life preserver.

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#104260 - 10/18/08 03:17 PM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Jimshaw]
Rick Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 708
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Do you trip with two PFD's? One to kneel on and one to wear. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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#104261 - 10/19/08 10:53 AM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Rick]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Rick
No I do not trip with 2 PFDS - If I am forced by law to have one, I kneel on it - I do not wear PFDs, bicycle helmets, OSHA protective clothing, or Depends. Wear a PFD? Maybe scuba diving...
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#104262 - 10/19/08 06:05 PM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Jimshaw]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
Jimshaw,
I second the thing about paddle shape. It should be like a wing or a prop blade so you can fly it through the water. In big water I like to use the inwater recovery stroke, never taking the paddle out of the water. That way I always have a brace in place. Ya gotta have a slick stick to do that. Plastic don't cut it unless its something like a Zaveral.


Edited by Spock (10/19/08 06:07 PM)

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#104263 - 10/19/08 06:30 PM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Spock]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Spock
Even the worst old hand carved wooden paddle is better than a flat plastic blade.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who "flies my canoe paddle". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />As I was learning to paddle my solo canoe fast, I started to consider lift and paddle rotation. Its a natural extension of sculling. My wife was pretty blown away when I sculled us right up to a mountain beaver without taking my paddle out of the water. I started to consider "sculling" while moving quickly forward and the lift became apparent. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Jimshaw (10/22/08 09:27 PM)
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#104264 - 10/22/08 05:39 AM Re: Canoe frustration.... [Re: Jimshaw]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Hey Jim, I used to have (it was stolen) an inflatable pontoon style boat that I would float fish with. I noticed that the rubber raft rentals were slow and cumbersome. There are a lot of rocks in most of the rivers that I fish and I find that the plastic canoes glide over them while the aluminum seem to grab the rock like a set of brakes. I've seen many aluminum canoes caught on rocks and spun around dumping all the contents. Sometimes they swamp, turn upside down and are held to the bottom by the current. It then gets very hard to retreive your boat with tons of force holding your boat. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I would never consider a fiberglass or cedar strip canoe in such waters, although they would be great on lakes and deeper rivers.
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#118050 - 07/05/09 09:56 PM Re: Canoe frustration....(and help) [Re: alanwenker]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Having been an ACA instructor, done many canoe river trips, raced canoes and canoed in Quebec and Ontario I have definite personal prefernces for canoes - for different canoeing pursuits, that is.

HULL MATERIAL: But for all around canoeing I'd go with an Old Town style of a sandwiched linear polyethelene hull. It's far tougher than any other material, quieter, insulates against cold water and has its own flotation sandwiched between the poly layers. Good boats have wooden gunnels and seats for esthtics. The Penobscot by Old Town has a fairly fast but stable hull. FLAT hulls (like the Grummans)are a no-no for overall stability.

Next is HULL LENGTH: No shorter than 17 ft. for speed (i.e. ease of paddling)Longer hulls, beam measurement being equal, are faster hulls but turn less fast. 17' to 18' is the typical range of tripping hulls.

HULL SHAPE: rockered hull with a hint of chine. You should be able to lean it up on its chine while solo paddling W/O fear of flipping it (as you would in flat, heavily chined a Grumman hull if you put it on edge). A plastic sandwich hull with a slight V hull will track straigher (read less effort on long hauls) and be inherently stronger and still turn well. In other words you want a generalist hull shape and length that does most things well.

Yeah, fiberglass and Kevlar hulls are sexy looking and light(er) but they break their gelcoat easily. Don't ask me how I know. You want a canoe hull that will handle the nasty stuff, like kids and wilderness trips, rocky landings and shallow rocky river bottoms.

Paddles. Nothing but nothing says comfort like a well made, glass or Kevlar reinforced laminated wooden bent shaft paddle. Keep a spare straight shaft paddle for the stern man for whitewater. Paddle lengths are very personal. Be sure yours fits by sitting in your canoe IN THE WATER and trying the length. Seat height has a lot to do with this.
Hope this helps.

Eric
BTW, never EVER walk inside a hull that is not fully supported by water or you could permenantly bend the hull.
P.P.S. You need to learn the many paddling strokes B/C, believe me, you'll use them all. Get Bill Mason's classic "Path of the Paddle". None better. Paddle skills come faster than skiing skills but you still need to practice as much as possible.


_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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