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#116928 - 06/06/09 07:13 AM Layering for the Sierra's?
Ellis Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 3
Loc: CA, USA
Hey all, I am a newbie, that has done a few overnighters, but am going to be going to the Sierras for 5 days (camping at 10,000 ft to 11000 feet) and maybe a dayhike to Mt. Langley beginning July 8th. I am wondering how many layers and such I should bring, I am trying to minimize my pack weight and don't know what I should bring and leave behind... Anyone know of average temps in July? I know weather is constantly changing, but any averages would be great...

I am thinking of bringing:

short sleeve Salomon breathable Poly SS shirt.
Capilene 3 Long Sleeve Poly Shirt
REI Heavyweight 1/4 zip fleece
Mtn. Hardware Synchro softshell
Merrell Rain shell (no insulation)

* I also have an LL Bean down vest and LL Bean down coat (both are 650 down fill I think)I coud bring in lieu of the rei heavyweight fleece or synchro jacket.*

Any suggestions or help would be appreciated...
TIA


Edited by Ellis (06/06/09 07:14 AM)

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#116930 - 06/06/09 09:08 AM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Ellis]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Here is what I used for my JMT through hike last year.

Base layer: Merino wool SS T-shirt, 5 oz.
Mid layer: Home made LS, 100wt fleece 1/3 zip pullover, 7.5 oz.
Insulation layer: Montbell inner down vest, 5.5 oz.
Wind layer: Home made 1/3 zip, hooded wind shirt, 2.8 oz.
Rain top: DriDucks rain jacket, 6.12 oz.

On a few mornings when the temperature was around 27°F, I would wrap my sleeping bag around my shoulders for extra warmth.

For the bottom half, I used GoLite hiking shorts (4 oz) with built in brief both as hiking shorts and as underwear. I also carried a pair of light nylon cargo pants (12 oz) as wind pants and bug and sun protection. I also carried a pair of Capilene long johns (5.8 oz) for cold weather I never saw.

a) Your poly SS shirt is the equivalent of my Merino shirt.
b) Your Capilene LS shirt is not quite the equivalent of my 100 wt fleece pull over but probably good enough.
c) Your heavy weight fleece is at least the equivalent of my down vest; but, lots heavier.
d) Your softshell is roughly the equivalent of my wind shirt but again, heavier and probably not quite as wind proof.
e) I suspect the Merrell rain shell is functional but perhaps heavier than the DriDucks. DriDucks are also inexpensive and a full rain suit only weighs about 10 oz. You generally don't have that much rain to deal with in the Sierra in the summer.

I would consider something lighter than the REI fleece, the softshell and the Merrell. Otherwise, looks well thought out.

Added as an edit: GoLite makes a good, light windshirt as do some of the site sponsors for this forum. If you are handy with a sewing machine, or choose to become so, ThruHiker makes a good windshirt kit.


Edited by Pika (06/06/09 09:11 AM)
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#116933 - 06/06/09 12:01 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Ellis]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Are you ready for snow? At that altitude in July you will be dealing with snow on the ground, maybe snow in the air. Is your foot gear up to hiking in snow in steep places?

Personally, I would have along a real down coat, something with at-least 8 ounces of 650 down AND AN INSULATED HOOD. At 11,000 feet in a wind, 27 degrees is serious. But then I always go over prepared and warm clothes are the most important thing I carry.

Pika has direct experience which is important, BUT Pika is as tough as a boiled owl, are you? Seriously, conditioning is critical at that altitude, both muscular and adapting. Are you coming up from sea-level? Your body and its ability to keep you warm will not be able to deal well with the lowered oxygen for a couple weeks. You may shiver a lot.

Be sure your shell layers are big enough to go over your insulation, because you will need the extra warmth of wearing everything you got.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116942 - 06/06/09 04:41 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Jimshaw]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I personally prefer synthetic clothing insulation layers, because my sleeping bag is down and I hesitate to put all my insulation eggs into one basket, so to speak.

Here's mine, for the Wind Rivers this summer, where the weather is even more likely to be as Jim describes--and yes, all the layers can be and have been worn all together:

Capilene 2 zip-T (used as hiking shirt)
Nylon hiking pants
Capilene 2 baselayer bottoms
Merino wool T-shirt (short sleeve)
Wind shirt, Montbell UL
Montbell UL Thermawrap jacket
Rain gear, Brawny Gear silnylon jacket and pants
Manzella polypro fleece balaclava (it's really important to have something to keep your head warm--"if your feet are cold put on a hat")
Manzella polypro fleece gloves
Mountain Laurel Designs rain mitts (shells to keep the gloves dry)

Plus a Western Mountaineering Ultralight Super sleeping bag (20*). I also carry a pair of 200-wt fleece sleeping socks as well as a spare pair of hiking socks.

You may want to consider long sleeves and pants for hiking plus a good hat for sun protection. The sun is fierce at high altitudes and sunscreen can do only so much.

As Jim says, altitude is important. I grew up in Wyoming and Colorado, but have most of the last 50 years at or close to sea level. I found last summer that childhood acclimatization definitely does NOT last forever! I got really tired, lost my appetite and as a result definitely had less resistance to cold. Short easy days the first few days of the trip are definitely a good idea!



_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#116955 - 06/07/09 12:23 AM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: OregonMouse]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Mouse
Good points about sun protection.
I don't understand how such a small person as yourself manages to keep warm carrying such "light" gear.
Sure acclimatisation makes a huge difference - one of the reasons I live at 4,000 feet.
I also think your size and and age drives you to make a lot of weight decisions that I would not. Of course if I were smaller I might do the same thing. The theory being that a 180 pound person can carry twice as heavy of pack as a 90 pound person and its the same percentage of body weight. Since I do have a huge pack, I can pack a down coat and down pants and not even have to stuff em, and since I always tried to get goretex shelled down garments, all I gotta do is pull it out and slip it on. I would never go above 8,000 feet in the Sierra without being prepared for freezing, snow and hail.
But then I'm always prepared for what happens.

Again - footgear. It has to be snow worthy.
Mouse - what do you wear on your feet?
Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116964 - 06/07/09 02:30 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Jimshaw]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
"I don't understand how such a small person as yourself manages to keep warm carrying such "light" gear"

I think this varies based on several factors, to include experience, hiking "style", and overall physical condition (strength, endurance).

Thru-hiking last year I was in excellent shape by the time I hit the Sierras in early June. I had a Montbell Thermawrap jacket as well as a size larger thermawrap vest to layer, but I essentially never used the vest, that one insulation layer (upper body only) was enough. Being in good shape at the time helped in part because I could do more miles --- thus there was a lot more flexibility in where I camped each night. So I always camped below snow level.

By "style" I mean a host of things a backpacker does, but in particular here I'm talking about a process that involves more time on the trail and relatively little in camp. If camp is just a place to eat and sleep (not hang out), then much of your in-camp time is in the sleeping bag. Strategy for being caught by unusually bad weather or a situation like that: stop and set up camp, crawl in the bag.

In that context the temperature rating of your sleeping bag, whether you use a tent and what sort (single vs. a warmer double wall), what other clothing you can wear inside the bag, what insulative padding you sleep on, those all relate too.

I don't want to suggest that a person should go out with too little in the way of insulating clothing (!), but what's needed --- or at least what's desired for an adequate sense of security --- can vary a lot based on these sorts of factors. Walking the JMT part of the trail last year there was an obvious visible difference between pack sizes and overall amount and type of gear being schlepped along by folks walking the JMT only vs. PCT thru-hikers, with the latter carrying a lot less.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#116966 - 06/07/09 03:22 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Ellis]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
A few rambling thoughts.

I hiked yesterday in misty rain in Sequoia NP at about 7000 feet. I had a long sleeve oxy t, REI branded, and a Marmot windshirt (4 oz, polyester, water resistant) and a pair of nylon convertible pants on. When we stopped for lunch I put on a fleece jacket over the windshirt (wasn't raining just then). Temps were in the mid 50s with a high of 63F, feeling cooler because of the rain and fog.

Before I ramped up from once-in-a-while hikes to hiking a lot, hiking longer distances, and backpacking, I would have been a lot colder and required more insulation than that. I've noticed my cold and heat tolerance is different than it used to be; people are suffering from Fresno dry 90F heat while I am enjoying a beer on the back patio.

I currently plan to do a leg of the JMT with the windshirt, a poncho for rain protection, 200wt fleece, midweight base layer (synthetic), nylon pants, rain pants (for a warm layer or for hiking in heavy rain), and a synthetic long sleeved shirt. I will have extra socks and possibly an extra shirt. I have down quilts for use with my hammock, and will wrap up in one if temps drop at night before bed. I'm basing this on experience - I hike in the Sierras every weekend, except for the weekends I hike on the coast or have to work.

Consider what is comfortable for you and then plan to confront temps anywhere between 80F to 25F. I think experience allows you to take lighter gear, and your personal tolerances might let you take fewer layers, but it's hard to gauge where you are at in this - so go hiking in various conditions and see. Dayhikes are a great way to test gear and clothing.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#116971 - 06/07/09 04:23 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: lori]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Lori
You hit it on the head when you said "experience lets you carry less", therefore anyone asking advice due to their own lack of experience, does not have the experience of the responder and should carry more. You stated that you hike in the Sierras most weekends and live in Fresno, I know the mountains above you. You are acclimated merely by being up there at-least twice a month for a weekend. I always felt different in the Sieras if I went every other weekend.

If someone is coming up from sealevel and becomes exhausted at altitude, having a warm place to crawl into is essential.

However, the summer that I spent in the Sierras mostly alone, I did not carry any jacket at all, not even a rain jacket, nor a tent. I had a 8x10 sheet of plastic with a hole in the middle and a hood sewn in, like cape ponch. I sat under it during afternoon storms, slept on top of it, and when it rained at night, I pulled one half over me. If I was cold I wrapped my sleeping bag around me.
Jim crazy


Edited by Jimshaw (06/08/09 06:33 PM)
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116972 - 06/07/09 05:48 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: lori]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Jim, maybe it's my fat layer (I'm short and squat, definitely not petite). I've used the clothing I described to well below freezing and in snow without problems. While I'm a short-day hiker (start late, stop early), when I'm in camp I do a lot of wandering around to explore the area, fuss with gear (air it out or whatever), admire the sunset, play with my dog, etc. In other words, I'm moving around rather than sitting still for most of the time I'm awake. That may be why I am plenty warm enough while out of bed but at the same time am a cold sleeper. If it gets too miserable even with all the layers on, I can always crawl into the sleeping bag, and with that I'm good for close to zero. One of the reasons I won't rely on clothing to supplement a less-warm sleeping bag is that I really don't want to take wet or dirty clothing into the bag with me, and I want some margin should I fall into the creek with my insulating clothing on. (After falling during a creek ford last summer, I don't find that scenario too far-fetched!) Another is that with the considerable temperature differential between inside and outside the bag on a frosty morning, I really want to save that nice warm Thermawrap jacket for when I get out of bed! (On the other hand, I'm very apt to wait until the sun hits the tent, unless there's no morning sun. Backpacking trips are, after all, for pleasure!)

I'm still working on the footwear. I've been a longtime advocate of boots instead of shoes. After last summer's trips, though, I've given up on boots, especially goretex-lined boots. Once they get wet inside, it takes 3 days (and those were sunny, dry, breezy Colorado days) to dry them out! I'm trying both trail runners and light-weight mids (high-topped version of the trail runner) (hard to find the latter without goretex, though). So far both have worked fine, with the edge to the trail runners which have far more support for my pronation problems. I haven't yet tried the acid test of a 25-lb. pack with them, though. That is coming up shortly, depending on how soon I can shed this horrible cold that has had me laid up the past couple of weeks. I will take plastic bags to use (inside shoes, on top of socks) to keep my feet dry if it snows. I also use two layers of socks (both merino wool) because the thicker socks are more comfortable for my feet. I've found that the trail runners dry really fast even if I've walked through a creek with them. They actually provide far more support for my quite deformed feet than did the boots (even with orthotics) and are far more comfortable. I've tried deliberately turning my ankle in the trail runners and haven't been able to do it, something I can't say for the boots.

One of the things I'm really looking forward to on the TLB Forum backpack in September is the chance to compare gear!

Lori, I've found cold and heat tolerance really interesting. When I first moved from eastern Washington to the Portland, OR area 20 years ago, everyone else would complain of the heat when it got into the 80's, while I would just barely begin to feel comfortable, being accustomed to daytime temperatures in the upper 90's or higher. That's not quite as true as it was 20 years ago, but I still have less problems with hot weather than do most residents of western Oregon or Washington. However, after spending most of my adult life in the Pacific Northwest, I really get the shivers at the thought of facing a Wyoming winter--if it weren't for that, I'd probably have retired there! I far prefer Wyoming (where I grew up) to any other state I've lived in, but only in the summers, thank you!

To Ellis, I'd say that if you add warm hat, warm gloves (with waterproof overmitts or plastic bags to keep them dry) and an insulating layer and lightweight wind/waterproof shell for your legs, you'll be fine. I personally would rather have a lot of thin insulating layers (your inner shirt, the Capilene 3 and the 200-weight fleece are close to what I have), that I can fine-tune to keep my body warm without sweating, than one thick one (the down). If you add another insulating layer, consider a lightweight fleece, down or synthetic fill vest. If you do that, you might consider ditching the (probably heavy) softshell, unless your rain jacket is not breathable (in that case, consider a lightweight wind shirt). Should you be able to get up in the Sierra in the current storm (or if a similar one hits) with your gear, that would be a great test! You don't mention footwear; whatever you wear, I'd suggest at least one and maybe (for safety's sake) two extra pair of hiking socks. I love my fleece sleeping socks--they're really soft and loose and my feet sigh with gratitude when I put them on--but they are a luxury item. They do mean that no matter how wet the weather, I always have dry socks in bed.

The other precaution is to keep your insulating stuff (clothing and sleeping bag) dry! Pack them inside waterproof bags (ordinary stuff sacks are not waterproof) or (cheaper and probably lighter) use a plastic 2-mil trash compactor bag (available at supermarkets--just make sure they're not perfumed) as a pack liner. Part of keeping your insulating clothing layers dry is not to sweat into them--remove layers as needed to keep from sweating. Especially don't pile on your insulating layers under your rain wear while you're hiking, because it will be a sauna inside, no matter how breathable your rain jacket. You may need to pile everything on under the rain jacket when you stop (don't let yourself get chilled), but you'll want to take it off again when you start hiking). I call this the "onion" principle, and it is a bit of a nuisance, but far more comfortable both when hiking and when sitting still. Learning to fine-tune your body temperature when outdoors is an art well-worth learning; it could save your life!



Edited by OregonMouse (06/07/09 06:00 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#116973 - 06/07/09 05:53 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: OregonMouse]
Ellis Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 3
Loc: CA, USA
Yes I will be coming from sea level to 10,000. I am not looking forward to acclimating frown

The person I am going with suggested a heavy fleece or down jacket, thermals, short sleeved shirt, long sleeve, and a wind shirt, and a rain shell.

I have a pair of Asolo boots that should do fine if I encounter a little bit of snow. I have a pair of smartwool socks and rei merinowool socks. For bedtime I have a thick pair of expedition wool socks smile One thing I have noticed while hiking with my smartwool and rei socks is that my feet seem more sweaty with them than regular cotton socks and my feet are very smelly when I am done and I normally don't have smelly feet. Is that typical of wool socks?

Thanks for all of the great suggestions and info! I always seem to overpack cuz Id like to be ready for whatever, but my lack of experience also makes it tough in determining what to bring

P.S. I am a pretty small guy 5'7 and 140 lbs.


Edited by Ellis (06/07/09 06:13 PM)

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#117027 - 06/08/09 04:46 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Ellis]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I have found that simply bringing an extra 3-oz balaclava hat really helps out when it gets cold. Especially sleeping, keeping your head and neck warm allows you to use a lighter sleeping bag.

I climbed Mt. Langley years ago- from the Tuttle Creek side. There was a lot of snow and huge sun-cups on the top flat area and it was very windy. I recall a lot of very loose scree. Bring gaiters so you do not get pebbles inside your shoes.

One item I consider essential if doing mountaineering, is a light survival blanket - the few oz. metallic mylar types. I also like to take a small square of ensolite pad. It is nice to sit on at rest breaks and provides insullation if you had to sit it out on the mountain overnight.

By the way, I have a little granddaughter named Ellis!


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#117034 - 06/08/09 06:55 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Ellis]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Ellis
re smelly socks
Socks are a very personal thing along with boot selection. If your socks smell, regardless of what type they are, then maybe something about your foot gear is just wrong for you. I wear the same polyester socks from Costco everyday whether I'm hiking skiing or hanging out t home. Works for me with my boots.

I second the balaclava recommendation. I carry a polyester balaclava all year round. They keep bugs off your head in the summer.

I remember going up into Hoover wilderness on the north east corner of Yosemite in HIGH country at the end of June. I had long underwear, 300 wt fleece pants, 300 weight jacket, down jacket and goretex bibs and coat. I stopped in Markleville and bought a pair of cotton sweats to wear over the 300 fleece. Then it snowed for 5 days, and without those cotton sweat pants, I would not have been warm the whole time. We were around 9 to 10 thousand feet. It gets much worse at 11,000.

I nearly froze to death at minus 40 in the Alps. I swore I would never be cold again while camping. One winter in the Sierras the temps dropped to minus 5, snowed and blew at 50 mph gusts. Minus 60 with wind chill. I pulled on my gear which included goretex shelled down bibs and winter coat, balaclava, and big mitts and I sat out in the blow and cooked breakfast and melted snow and I was toasty warm in my everyday clothes that I carry for temps in the teens.
Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#117042 - 06/09/09 05:54 AM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: wandering_daisy]
Ellis Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 3
Loc: CA, USA
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
I have found that simply bringing an extra 3-oz balaclava hat really helps out when it gets cold. Especially sleeping, keeping your head and neck warm allows you to use a lighter sleeping bag.

I climbed Mt. Langley years ago- from the Tuttle Creek side. There was a lot of snow and huge sun-cups on the top flat area and it was very windy. I recall a lot of very loose scree. Bring gaiters so you do not get pebbles inside your shoes.

One item I consider essential if doing mountaineering, is a light survival blanket - the few oz. metallic mylar types. I also like to take a small square of ensolite pad. It is nice to sit on at rest breaks and provides insullation if you had to sit it out on the mountain overnight.

By the way, I have a little granddaughter named Ellis!



Havn't met many people with the first name Ellis and certainly no girls with the name until now smile

I have a survival blanket as part of my emergency survival kit. I will look into maybe getting some gaiters, as I have never used them before... Hiking Langley is still a maybe especially depending on how I am feeling altitude wise.

P.S. Any helpful hints to help aid in acclimating faster? I have heard to drink lots of water, anything else? And when I get it, should I take aspirin? Should I relax or try to exercise a lil bit?

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#117044 - 06/09/09 08:48 AM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Jimshaw]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
I really agree with the "experience lets you carry less" comment. To my earlier blaze comments about thru-hikers carrying less, I feel compelled to add (or detract :)) that a flurry of discussion is happening now on the PCT discussion list about a thru-hiker that went into the Sierras a few days ago with a relatively light load of gear and ended up hitting 911 on their SPOT due to becoming somewhat hypothermic.

It can definitely "creep up on you quickly" if those conflicting terms make any sense to you. What would be an inadequate and unsafe set of clothing and gear for one person could be fine for another who has a higher combined total of relevant experience, knowledge, creativity, and wisdom (primarily common sense).
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#117243 - 06/13/09 09:28 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: BrianLe]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Brianle
that a flurry of discussion is happening now on the PCT discussion list about a thru-hiker that went into the Sierras a few days ago with a relatively light load of gear and ended up hitting 911 on their SPOT due to becoming somewhat hypothermic."
___________________________________________________
I have a real problem with people who refuse to carry enough gear, but don't mind carrying a spot. I hope he was charged a huge SAR fee, although I'm sure he wasn't. There has to be some kind of punishment for entering a park unprepared and being rescued, or people will think its ok to go unprepared and the sheriff will come get you. Denali at least will not even let you off the plane unprepared.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#117244 - 06/13/09 09:39 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Jimshaw]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I read the journal entries of the woman they are talking about. She panicked after being caught unprepared in a snowstorm. she also did not learn how to use the SPOT well enough to know to turn it off (if she could even do that) once she hit 911; she believed she had. It seems to me more of a case of someone going out on a major hike without enough of a knowledge base and getting caught in unexpected weather, The rescuers didn't even get a chance to find her, she already bailed off the trail by the time the search was called.

I don't know that she was charged or punished, or even if she's able to take in the severity of this outcome. Some people need help to "get it." Maybe she'll read the threads online (there are many) and figure it out? I hope for her sake she does.

ETA: I just looked at her gear list. It's incredibly sparse - I can't imagine it was everything she had. She got her clothes wet and then when she hit the sack she took them all off. Why she thought taking a 32F ultralight bag was a good idea, who can guess - she needed at least a 20F bag and enough layers to supplement. I don't even feel I'm prepared to tackle a PCT hike myself and I can understand how temps can drop in the sierras.... She needed a better shelter than a tarp and ultralight bivy.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#117251 - 06/14/09 05:16 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: lori]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Lori
"ETA: I just looked at her gear list. It's incredibly sparse - I can't imagine it was everything she had. She got her clothes wet and then when she hit the sack she took them all off. Why she thought taking a 32F ultralight bag was a good idea, who can guess - she needed at least a 20F bag and enough layers to supplement. I don't even feel I'm prepared to tackle a PCT hike myself and I can understand how temps can drop in the sierras.... She needed a better shelter than a tarp and ultralight bivy."
_________________________________________________________

Lori,
Some people desperately need to believe that anyone can go anywhere unprepared and be safer cause they're lighter... Why did this woman decide she was, capable and prepared for the PCT? She was obviously on her first or second trip, first to high country I would assume.

Not having gear, common sense, or experience, but carrying a spot. There's gonna be a lot more of this and it will change the way they are perceived by SAR, more kinda like random noisy burglar alarms... ho hum. Didn't know how to turn it off? Can you say "didn't look at the manual?"

These spot thingys are getting in the way of natural selection... I hope no one quotes me on that or more people will buy them. You should have to place a thousand dollar rescue retainer to buy one of the things.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#117254 - 06/14/09 05:38 PM Re: Layering for the Sierra's? [Re: Jimshaw]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Jim, I gather she is from Minnasota. Now someone from there ought to know a LOT about snow! She probably had the misconception that a June Sierra snowstorm would be minor and kept walking when she should have hunkered down. I also think the PCT hikers let thier daily schedule get in the way of common sense sometimes.

I think she should have to at least partially pay for the rescue. Not because she pushed 911 on Spot, but because she failed to notify anyone when she was out. I would think that she would have had to pass by the Crabtree Ranger Station on the way out. If not the first thing she needed to do when she got out was call the Sherriff's office and let them know.

I was involved in a rescue years back in Inyo county. The county does not have the resources to foot the bill for rescues. They bill the county that the person lives in and that county then decides to pay the bill or charge the person - or share the cost or whatever. As a tax payer, I do not wish to subsidize rescues that are not needed. As a backpacker, I would hope for a bit of mercy if I made a mistake and at least split the bill half and half. Few backpackers really know the ins and outs of emergency protocol and rescues. I would like to see better informed backpackers. When you get your permit, the rangers make a big deal about no trace camping, but not a word about what to do in an emergency.


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