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#116600 - 05/27/09 12:26 PM "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment
Berserker Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
I don't know if ya'll remember Jim Wood talking about his sil-nylon treatment a while back or not. Basically he devised a way to paint silicone sealant onto sil-nylon by diluting it. He developed the treatment for sil-nylon floors, but mentioned that it would likely work on canopies. For more info check out the article about it on his site (jwbasecamp.com).

At any rate, I just thought I would mention that I have performed the treatment on my Squall with good results. My main complaint I had with the Squall was the misting I got in heavy rain. I did a 4:1 treatment (4 parts of low odor mineral spirits to 1 part of silicone sealant) on the canopy, and it seems to have resolved the problem as I have had it out in heavy rain post treament, and got no misting. I also treated the floor (with a close to 4:1 ratio I think) on the inside to add some tackiness so I wouldn't slide around. That worked well too.

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#116603 - 05/27/09 01:07 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Berserker]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
How much weight did the treatment add to the tent? I ask because I have thought about doing the same thing.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#116606 - 05/27/09 02:01 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Pika]
Berserker Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Well, to be honest I wasn't diligent about getting a before and after weight (I wish I had). Based on the after weight, I think it went up in weight by roughly the weight of silicone sealant used, which in my case was about 2 ounces. I used 4 ounces of mineral spirits and 1 ounce of silicone for the canopy slurry, and 4 ounces of mineral spirits and a little over an ounce of silicone for the floor slurry. I used all the slurry for the canopy on the canopy, and I had a little of the floor slurry left over after completing the floor. Overall it's not much of a weight penalty to get rid of that darn misting.

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#116607 - 05/27/09 02:05 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Berserker]
frenchie Offline
member

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 461
Loc: Lyon, France
How do you think it could be done on the underside of the floor to add some resistance? Would it peel?
I wouldn't coat all the inside, only strips, to be able to "slide" a bit around, still staying in place on my pad.

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#116614 - 05/27/09 03:38 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: frenchie]
Berserker Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Well, you can read the article on Jim's site, but from what I saw I don't think it would peel off. At a 4:1 ratio (Jim recommends 3:1 for the floor) it puts a very thin coating of silicone on the material that seems to bond nicely to the material. I did the floor on the inside for the tackiness. The only thing I could see being annoying about doing it on the outside of the floor would be that the tackiness might pick up dirt. I would think it would definitely provide some resistance though.

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#116616 - 05/27/09 04:23 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: frenchie]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I coated the floor of my Luna Solo about 3 years ago and still no signs of peeling. It worked really well also although I used more silicon slurry than I really needed.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#116626 - 05/27/09 07:29 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Pika]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 997
Loc: Australia
When I first read about doing that I was a bit worried that it would not cope with the stretch/shrink effect of silnylon, however I noticed that on some tubes of silicone the label states a 15% stretch, and that is similar to what the fabric does.
I did all of the floor of the Lighthouse ( on the inside) about 5 years ago, still looks the same , no signs of peeling. It has been seldom used in that time due to a condition called Tarptenteitis Major.
The weight increase should match the amount of silicone used since the mineral spirits will evaporate.
Because of the "rubbery" surface you end up with , it will pick up a lot of dirt and makes it more difficult to clean the floor for me, not a big deal thogh.
Give it plenty of time to dry, I made a hole in mine by having some of the floor fabric sticking toghether after it was hung up to dry overnight.

To treat the floor to prevent sliding, I would reccomend painting dots instead of stripes. Much easier to "sweep " the floor that way.
(also looks much nicer...)
Franco

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#116647 - 05/28/09 08:50 AM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Franco]
Berserker Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
The 4:1 ratio and I assume an even more diluted ratio puts a nice coat on that has minimal tackiness. My canopy does not pick up any dirt and you can feel very little resistance when running your hand across it. The job I did on the floor is quite tacky and picks up dirt, but I double coated the floor when I did it so a single coat would likely be much more subtle.

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#116663 - 05/28/09 12:22 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Berserker]
frenchie Offline
member

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 461
Loc: Lyon, France
Thanks guys, I will certainly try something....

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#116667 - 05/28/09 01:57 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: frenchie]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
I have reservations on treating silnylon. I tried the stripe thing and it didn’t work after a while because it got dusted up and held on to dirt. This would probably be worse by doing the whole floor. Untreated silnylon (and spinnaker) is so nice and easy to clean up--- by just shaking out.


I think there are lighter weight methods to misting and floor robustness:
1. Let the tarp/canopy be; I don’t know about this misting problem. I’ve been in my silnylon tarptents for 8 hours in hard thunderstorms—several times. I’ve felt no misting. But I may have excellent quality silnylon in my tents. Or if it did mist, I could not tell from the actual humidity. The important thing is, my bag or clothes never got damp/wet.
2. Now a wet ground will soak through where your butt is. However, GG’s polycro cloth http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_cloth.html solves this at a lighter weight (1.5oz) with a bonus of multi use:
a. use to take afternoon nap on
b. greatly increases puncture protection on the tent--- better than the sealant treatment.
c. greatly increases the floor waterproofness--- better than the sealant treatment
d. takes the dirt stain hit before the tent does.
e. easier to replace the cloth than the tent floor
f. use to layout and organize backpack items
3. For sliding sleeping pads, use a 12”x12” cupboard liner. This weighs <1oz. This worked great with my 3/4 Prolite 4.
4. Or for sliding sleeping pads, buy the new NeoAir. Now that grabs silnylon and stays put on a slight slope!

Even after the treatment, Jim recommends a ground cloth: “Even with this treatment, you still may elect to use a ground cloth under your tent floor, if only to help keep it clean.”

Anyway, just some more thoughts to think about.

-Barry

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#116672 - 05/28/09 02:53 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Berserker]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
When I made my silnylon poncho and a rain fly of the same stuff, I sealed the seams with 1 part clear GE Silicone II and 4 parts camp gas (flammable..at your own risk!!). That stuff is on there to stay, and it's been 3-4 years now with no signs of peeling or delaminating. Talcum powder to keeps it from sticking to itself.
Painted it on with a trim paint brush. It could be sprayed or rolled and goes on very smoothly.
It does help to de-grease the article with some acetone or other solvent before applying, to remove skin oils etc. Wear a respirator.
The only problem I see with it is that it defeats the purpose of the lightweight cloth. It adds weight and thickness. I've never had a misting problem with sil-nylon.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#116697 - 05/28/09 09:23 PM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Berserker]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 997
Loc: Australia
Berserker
" but I double coated the floor " now that you mentioned that I remembered that I did double coat the floor of my Lighthouse (why did I do that ?) so my comments relate to that.
Misting
This keeps coming up, but let me assure you that in the right conditions (very large rain drops) you will get some misting through the standard 1.1-1.4 oz silnylon. And no, it isn't condensation coming off the inner of the fly.
In my experience it has not been enough to dampen my down bag.
And yes I have had all night very heavy rain without any misting...
Franco

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#116704 - 05/29/09 09:09 AM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: Franco]
Berserker Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Originally Posted By Franco

This keeps coming up, but let me assure you that in the right conditions (very large rain drops) you will get some misting through the standard 1.1-1.4 oz silnylon.

I agree as I have seen the misting first hand. I don't know if it is due to the quality of the sil-nylon, or just degradation after usage (as Jim discusses in the article on his site). When I had it happen it just slightly dampened my stuff, no big deal. I just didn't like it happening, and getting hit with mist while trying to sleep was really annoying.

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#116705 - 05/29/09 09:13 AM Re: "Jim Wood" Sil-nylon Treatment [Re: BarryP]
Berserker Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
As I addressed in my response to Franco I have had the misting occur, so it is a real phenomena which is why I tried the "Jim Wood" treatment. As for the floor, I use a ground cloth (1 or 2 mil plastic) so the coating I did was purely to add tackiness so that I don't slide around when I am sleeping. It worked, and most of the dirt and debris can still be shaken off.

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