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#115374 - 05/03/09 01:05 AM serious question: Toilet paper! *****
Teej Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 4
Loc: USA

I am very interested in taking a NOLS course, but I do not know how I would survive practicing their minimalist bathroom procedures. It seems that they have a "leave nothing behind" motto, which encompasses toilet paper. I think that if I had to wipe with pine cones and twigs for two months I would be in serious pain by the end of my journey. Is there a semi comfortable way to survive outside without toilet paper?

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#115375 - 05/03/09 01:50 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
JWE Offline
member

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 70
Loc: Salem OR USA
I can't think of one but I know people who will put there used tp in ziplocs and carry it back out with them. I've seen biodegradable tp too but have never used it.
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#115393 - 05/03/09 01:04 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: JWE]
intrek38 Offline
member

Registered: 11/29/03
Posts: 430
Loc: Hesperia, Calif
Leave nothing behind means if you pack it in, you pack it out. Not sure if there's a substitute for TP other then leaves and pinecone. In certain area's of the Sierra's, it mandatory you pack out your used TP. Mt. Whitney supplies Wag bags for more then just TP, and that mandatory as well. Kinda hard to get past our old ways of just bury and forget, but it's for good reason.

You could try nettles or poisen oak...

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#115394 - 05/03/09 03:02 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Teej

Its true, most of the people who inhabit this planet do not know what a roll of toilet paper is eek. As a skier I can attest to the effectiveness of snow, ;)but then its a form of water, so without toilet paper you will want water and soap, grin biodegradable soap. goodjob Otherwise you might wanna invest in "scent lock" hunting clothes that keep your human scent in. sick sick

Cowboys had 2 bandannas, a red and a blue. One they wore around their neck, the other was for washing his rear end. goodjob

Enjoy your trip. A bandanna is sustainable and soft. Heck take 2, they're light. smile
Jim YMMV
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#115395 - 05/03/09 03:36 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Jimshaw]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
That's interesting, Jimshaw. I've heard that in the "old days" people used to use old towels, hankerchiefs, etc.

Supposedly there's TP made for mobile homes that completely dissolves in water. Technically I don't know if it's biodegradeable.

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#115404 - 05/03/09 05:48 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Do an archive search on the subject and you should come across about a brazillian posts on the subject.

In a nutshell, and Jimshaw's right, learn to use water, soap, local leaves/grasses, and you'll be on par with most of the world. If your hike is long enough, you'll eventually run out of TP, so why not learn to do without from the get-go. You'll save several ounces from you pack weight.
I do sometimes carry a 8" "washrag" cut from that yellow 'camp-towel' stuff from Walmart's camping section. It dries out quickly and is used just like your wash cloths at home. Lean what "lambs ear" is. Soft moss too. grin
I personally can't think of anything grosser to put in your pack than a weeks worth of used TP, baggie or not...ick. confused
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#115408 - 05/03/09 06:23 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Dryer]
Knaight Offline
member

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Massachusetts
I don't know about the soft moss suggestion. I don't like the idea of ripping up something that takes a fair bit of time to grow just for the purpose of cleaning myself.

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#115413 - 05/03/09 07:25 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Knaight]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Quote:
I don't like the idea of ripping up something that takes a fair bit of time to grow just for the purpose of cleaning myself.

Depends on where you are. In a national park or protected area, no. But then you are digging through top soil that took many years to form, for your cat hole.
Around here, plants like lambs ear grow like weeds and pulling off a leaf or two isn't a problem. Use what you want, but don't kid yourself about TP being an 'environmental friendly' solution.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#115415 - 05/03/09 07:50 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Dryer]
Knaight Offline
member

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By Dryer
Quote:
I don't like the idea of ripping up something that takes a fair bit of time to grow just for the purpose of cleaning myself.

Depends on where you are. In a national park or protected area, no. But then you are digging through top soil that took many years to form, for your cat hole.
Around here, plants like lambs ear grow like weeds and pulling off a leaf or two isn't a problem. Use what you want, but don't kid yourself about TP being an 'environmental friendly' solution.


My issue is definitely not with a leaf or two. A couple of leaves missing from your average tree will go unnoticed. A clump of missing moss is a bit more obvious and takes a longer amount of time to grow back, that's all.


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#115435 - 05/04/09 12:47 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Jimshaw]
jasonklass Offline
member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 551
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
Teej

Its true, most of the people who inhabit this planet do not know what a roll of toilet paper is eek. As a skier I can attest to the effectiveness of snow, ;)but then its a form of water, so without toilet paper you will want water and soap, grin biodegradable soap. goodjob Otherwise you might wanna invest in "scent lock" hunting clothes that keep your human scent in. sick sick

Cowboys had 2 bandannas, a red and a blue. One they wore around their neck, the other was for washing his rear end. goodjob

Enjoy your trip. A bandanna is sustainable and soft. Heck take 2, they're light. smile
Jim YMMV


Jim, your use of emoticons is out of control!!! Maybe a side effect of using too much snow? laugh
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#115441 - 05/04/09 05:49 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Maybe someone needs to come up with an attachment for a water bottle or bladder to "hose" yourself off with. Something that detachs so it can be put away or even a light, separate bladder with a simple way to pressurize it so you can hit the right spot. Could even be hung around your neck to use elevation to create some pressure, but a longer hose then what comes with a bladder may be needed. Don't have time to grab mine to check its length.

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#115449 - 05/04/09 08:15 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: hikerduane]
mmendell Offline
member

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Western Iowa
I use a dedicated .5L platy with a spout. It works just fine by either "shooting" water where it needs to go or pouring it down my arm. Add a drop of Bronner's, and I'm all set.

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#115456 - 05/04/09 09:22 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: jasonklass]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Jim, goodjob thanks 2 bandanas wink probably a long forgotten practice thanks sounds like it's much better than a corn cob. eek My next trip out I'm using bandanas thanks grin wink laugh laugh laugh
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#115461 - 05/04/09 10:14 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: mmendell]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The backpacker's bidet? Now I've seen everything.
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#115467 - 05/04/09 12:56 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: mmendell]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Do you use purified or unpurified water with that bidet?

Yeah, that sounds like smart-aleck question, but it's really intended to be serious. Since you're introducing water near the opening to the intestines, would unpurified water offer an increased risk of introducing potential intestinal bugs/infections/parasites? I don't know nearly enough about physiology and biology to know if this is a risk or not.

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#115469 - 05/04/09 01:10 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Glenn]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Quote:
Since you're introducing water near the opening to the intestines,


Ever go swimming in a lake/stream/river/ocean? Same difference and TP is anything but sterile. It's abrasiveness can cause raw skin, and now you are into the blood stream! smirk
"Death caused by overuse of toilet paper" is what your death certificate will read. grin
_________________________
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#115473 - 05/04/09 02:04 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Dryer]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Good points, Paul - I should have thought of the obvious. blush

The only difference I can think of is that, when swimming in that lake or stream, the opening is, well, closed; when cleaning, maybe not so much, er, closed? (And I do remember a time, in the early 70's, when the Gulf was so polluted at Biloxi, Mississippi, that the Air Force allowed us on the beach, but made the water off limits. (Of course, that's not your typical wilderness lake, either.)

Awkward phrasing, I'll admit; and, again, I'm not informed enough to know how this physical process works.

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#115476 - 05/04/09 02:26 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Glenn]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Take 20 prunes and call me in the morning.:)

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#115477 - 05/04/09 02:34 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: hikerduane]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Duane: I love prunes as much as the next guy - but what you're suggesting would REALLY open things up! grin

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#115493 - 05/04/09 07:37 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
I taught with NOLS from 2001-2003.

When a NOLS course goes out, usually with about 15 hikers, 12 students and 3 instructors, they take one roll of TP with them for emergencies only.

The rest of the time, you make due with natural TP. My first choice if it is available: SNOW. Cleans as it invigorates. Very effective.

Second: western pine cones. They are thoroughly different from those I grew up with in the east. No sharp edges and they are basically brushes that work quite well. I've actually known students to fill a plastic bag with the softest, "downiest" pinecones they can find at each campsite so they have a ready supply of natural TP.

In Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Oregon, and Washington, I was always able to find decent wiping material. It just takes a bit of practice.

Back east, it's tougher. Rear-ripping pine cones and crumbling leaves laugh Bad s*** in more ways than one...
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#115516 - 05/05/09 08:33 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Glenn]
mmendell Offline
member

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Western Iowa
I use filtered water in my backcountry "bidet," but only because I use a gravity filter and it's the easiest way to fill it.

I managed to convince my 2 girls, 12 and 15, to go paperless on a 5 day hike in Canyonland a couple of weeks ago. The 12-year-old did very well, and the 15-year-old just didn't go for 5 days. She hit the potty at the trailhead when we finished and was just fine!

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#115519 - 05/05/09 10:12 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: mmendell]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
I try to pack out as much TP as I can on hikes. I have a system I have developed over the years for garbage. Pretty it isn't, it works though.

I don't like going TP-less. So I am willing to carry it both ways.
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#115532 - 05/05/09 02:28 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Glenn]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
A family survived by giving each other a enema of untreated water, as that is all they had. I guess the lower intestine isn't vulnerable at that point. Does anyone else remember that story?

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#115549 - 05/05/09 06:16 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: hikerduane]
hoz Offline
member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 138
Loc: midwest
That was sea water enemas. Their ship had sunk and they were confined to a rubber life raft.
_________________________
We don't stop hiking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop hiking. Finis Mitchell

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#115554 - 05/05/09 08:38 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Ecrow Offline
member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 85
Loc: N. New Mexico
If you use mullein leaves, you won't mind so much. Mullein is a plant with a very tall woody stalk and buds on the top part. The leaves toward the ground are thick and like velvet. Mullein grows like a weed out west and is easy to spot because it is usually about 5 ft. tall. Some people like mullein tea as a medicine, it tastes better than chamomile. Chiggers like the moss, by the way.
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Ecrow
Live to tell.

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#115556 - 05/05/09 08:53 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Teej

Besides TP, living for extended periods of time on unsupported trips, means taking very good care of your body. You must be as clean and well lubricated wink as possible. You cannot afford to get sick, carry vitamins including C. Carry a towel. You will want to leave every thing behind except what makes you feel good (like maybe down socks). I like "no rinse" body bath, but I hate their shampoo and cream rinse. I can take a bath in 6 ounces of hot water and a splash of no rinse and it really does cut the smell and makes me feel clean and afterwards I am willing to get into a clean sleeping bag with myself. smile
Of course everything eventually runs out. Then you come home.

I think if you practiced at home, jump from the toilet into the shower? Anyway I would certainly practice before committing to it. Just My $.02
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#115585 - 05/06/09 01:35 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: lori]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
For a bidet, you could just stomp on your hydration bladder. LOL.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#115591 - 05/06/09 03:07 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: chaz]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Or you could simply scoot yer bo-bo across the grass like my neighbors dog! Dew might help. grin
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paul, texas KD5IVP

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#115595 - 05/06/09 03:56 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Dryer]
frenchie Offline
member

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 461
Loc: Lyon, France
Fresh and soft lambs ear leaves, with a light sprinkling of morning dew....Luxury!

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#115629 - 05/07/09 02:07 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: frenchie]
hoz Offline
member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 138
Loc: midwest
Though I was born and raised in the US I'm 1/2 Filipino and have visited the Philippines several times. There is a custom there called "Tabo" and it pertains to washing your hiney after doing the do.

Toilet paper is expensive there and often you won't find any in peoples houses, let alone public loo's. Sometimes, if you are lucky, a spray nozzle like on your kitchen sink will be attached to the plumbing but most often there will be a long handled cup or dipper and a bucket of water. The idea is to use your hand (left hand?) to wash up and then wash your hands afterward with soap.

If you see a long handled cup in a Filipinos bathroom you can be sure they are practicing Tabo.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/782151/tabo_the_toilet_paper_alternative_in.html
_________________________
We don't stop hiking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop hiking. Finis Mitchell

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#115662 - 05/08/09 12:25 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: hoz]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Much of the world gets by with washing, or natural materiels.
It's really not that bad, Personally I've found being able
to wash afterwards more important anyway, for me, no amount of
wiping will make me not get "rashy" when I'm hiking all day. so I take a small washcloth ( a square of old Tshirt which stays in a ziploc) or baby wipes. I do usually take TP as well, but if I had to choose one I'd only take the former.

Besides, TP as we know it was only invented in 1880..





Edited by phat (05/09/09 11:14 PM)
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#115711 - 05/08/09 08:07 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: phat]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
129 years is certainly enough for me to get conditioned to its use grin I know about using leaves (just watch out for the poisin ivy sick) or water with a rag or hand. If that was my only choice, I'd make do, but I have the option of TP where I hike and I will continue to use it thank you very much!
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If I wouldn't eat it at home, why would I want to eat it on the trail?

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#115815 - 05/11/09 01:20 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: thecook]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
My friend, "Camo Bob," sent me a pic of what he's using.
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#115820 - 05/11/09 08:11 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: kevonionia]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Quote:
My friend, "Camo Bob," sent me a pic of what he's using.


Camo tape? Now that's a different approach. Simply tape up the orifice and don't worry about it anymore. I bet he gains a lot of weight during his hikes! grin
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#115839 - 05/11/09 02:27 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: kevonionia]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
All I gotta do is eat me one of these, and no toilet paper worries for at least a few days.

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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#115912 - 05/13/09 12:01 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Wolfeye]
cpetterson Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Alberta
Originally Posted By Wolfeye
Supposedly there's TP made for mobile homes that completely dissolves in water. Technically I don't know if it's biodegradeable.


They make tp for RVs that will dissolve, you probably meant to say. I used to work at an rv repair shop and I know for a fact that it doesn't dissolve all that well unless you have a substantial liquid in the tank, otherwise it becomes saturated. Generally if it dissolves it will be biodegradeable, because it just falls apart, where as something like a plastic bag doesn't.

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#115962 - 05/13/09 02:14 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
In the south... Leaves and cleaning up with water/wet wipe/bandana.

I've been following this thread all along and have a few good laughs and learned some things along the way. But honestly, I never expected the thread to receive this many responses.
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#115971 - 05/13/09 04:05 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: finallyME]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 654
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By finallyME
All I gotta do is eat me one of these, and no toilet paper worries for at least a few days.



They also come with a small package of tissues anyway.
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#116002 - 05/13/09 11:18 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: DTape]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

I'm still appalled at the realization that they are scientifically designed to stuff you up.. Sheesh if I have to hike all day constipated my disposition becomes like a bear with a sore butt.. never mind if you then put a mattell machine gun in my hand...
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#116037 - 05/14/09 11:52 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: phat]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By phat

I'm still appalled at the realization that they are scientifically designed to stuff you up.. Sheesh if I have to hike all day constipated my disposition becomes like a bear with a sore butt.. never mind if you then put a mattell machine gun in my hand...


I don't know if constipated is the right word. I never have felt discomfort. I just didn't need to go for a day or two. And when I did, I had the convenience of deciding the best time (like when you have a break, or are near a toilet). It is much better than having the runs when people are shooting at you, or even getting that emergency feeling that you have to go NOW and are no where near a convenient spot. Again, I never have felt discomfort. But, YMMV. wink
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#116044 - 05/14/09 02:31 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: finallyME]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Having no direct experience in the matter, I have to think that if someone were shooting at me, I'd develop the runs pretty quickly, regardless of what I had been eating. wink

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#116193 - 05/17/09 10:35 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Glenn]
chava Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: PA
I never used TP, partly bc my first outdoor experience was with OB.

It really isn't that bad--I prefer smooth stones rinsed in a bit of water, or soft (non poison ivy) leaves. And then you don't have disgusting TP in your pack all day.

If you're female I'd still recommend bringing a small cache of baby wipes for the end of the day if you won't be able to wash.

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#117874 - 06/30/09 10:34 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Bearpaw]
sawwhetowl Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 200
Loc: Colorado



Do you mean spruce cones? I know of no soft pine cones.


[quote=Bearpaw]I taught with NOLS from 2001-2003.

western pine cones. They are thoroughly different from those I grew up with in the east. No sharp edges and they are basically brushes that work quite well. I've actually known students to fill a plastic bag with the softest, "downiest" pinecones they can find at each campsite so they have a ready supply of natural TP.

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#118313 - 07/13/09 10:23 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Andy Offline
member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
I am looking at this thread a couple of weeks late but will give a suggestion at the other "end" of the spectrum. And I'll try to keep the puns at a minimum.

Some time back I had lower intestinal problems and among other things (surgical, painful things) my doctor recommended a daily dose of powdered fiber. He said that Americans just don't get enough fiber in their diets and he recommends this to all patients, young and old.

So to make a long story short, after some experimentation to discover the "right" dose for me, it is 1 teaspoon in a glass of water in the morning and a second in the afternoon when I come home thirsty after work.

What I have noticed from this and my point is, my bowel movements are relaxed and easy because the stool is very soft but at the same time it is not wet or sticky. I only use one square of paper because there's just nothing left behind to "wipe" away. More out of habit than anything else. It is very clean.

So there's more than you need to know, sorry for that. But you could try it for a week at home to see what works for you. It takes a couple of days for your system to get used to it and settle down.

A little bit of very judicious shaving may help also.

Andy

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#118990 - 08/03/09 12:20 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
mountainhick Offline
member

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Colorado
I worked for NOLS in the field for 20 years and spent most of my backcountry time without toilet paper. Snow, spruce cones, certain leaves, bundles of soft early pine needles, smooth dry sticks and smooth rocks all have some workability. I always thought that squirrel fur would be the ultimate, but the little buggers are hard to catch with your pants down.

Washing the privates regularly also helps tremendously. Any leftover smears on your butt will turn into diaper rash.

These days I carry TP and wet wipes, pack it in and pack it out. I take three small Ziplocks, one with TP, one with wipes, one for the used goods.

And remember to wash your hands. Fecal-oral contamination is a common cause of intestinal illness in the backcountry and has caused distress to quite a few NOLSies.

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#119116 - 08/06/09 06:26 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: mountainhick]
Serac Offline
member

Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Washington State
I have not used TP in the backcountry for a few years now. Instead, I use a little squirt bottle that once held Campsuds soap. It is, indeed, my backpacker's bidet. I fill it with wild water and just squirt it down my backside after doing the dirty deed. A scrub or two with my left hand followed by rinsing. Wash my hands with biosoap and more water. Leaves you feeling clean and happy!
_________________________
"There is more to life than increasing it's speed" - Gandhi

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#119206 - 08/10/09 07:55 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Serac]
sawwhetowl Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 200
Loc: Colorado
My guess is you are not clean


Edited by sawwhetowl (08/10/09 07:57 PM)
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#123309 - 11/03/09 01:18 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
Shrike Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Minnesota
Just a thought after reading this entire thread.
I might be wrong but it seems to me like you will do more harm to the environment if you rinse and then use soap(even if it is biodegradable) than if you just use a little tp.


Edited by Lylevp (11/03/09 01:19 AM)

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#123321 - 11/03/09 11:36 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Shrike]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Quote:
I might be wrong but it seems to me like you will do more harm to the environment if you rinse and then use soap(even if it is biodegradable) than if you just use a little tp.


How so? What harm, exactly? The soap I use, (dr. bronners) is vegetable based and literally only a drop or two is used. The water was already there. I can't see it doing any more harm than the chemicals in your poop and pee, along with no telling what else your trip impacts (plastics off-gassing, car exhaust, your own human presence). NOT using TP saves weight, garbage, trees... smile.
When you wash, you are in fact, cleaner.
After a while, you're going to run out of TP anyway. What then?
_________________________
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#133533 - 05/11/10 02:09 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Dryer]
Pappy Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NC
The TP and our waste is very degradable. The problem is folks don't cover the cat-hole well enough and some critter will dig up the corpse and scatter it and the TP about the area. Very bad.

Find a large rock roll it over dig the cat-hole deep and neat, the earthen mounds will protect your calves from the dreaded splash back (GI Trots) cover the evidence with the dirt and then cover the dirt with the ground leaves. Finally replace the rock and King TUT will forever be sealed in his tomb.

Like the man said keep it fun...and for gods sake don't crap in a sandwich bag, if you carry your waste on your pack use what we did in the army a large garbage can bag.Much easier to hit the target that way. Like they say "all employee's must wash their hands before leaving."


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#138521 - 09/08/10 06:31 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Serac]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
I use Serac's method. It works fine, sometimes with a little Dr. Bonners. I usually extend it to a general crotch wash; that reduces the 'homeless aroma". A hand wash followed by waterless hand sanitizer completes the job. It beats TP completely.

My shower appliance is a perforated cap for a Platypus flask. With a regular cap, it's just a water bottle.


Edited by Spock (09/08/10 06:33 PM)

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#139015 - 09/19/10 09:54 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Pappy]
POPsJr. Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 5
Well said Pappy.

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#150026 - 05/08/11 12:32 AM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
jwild Offline
member

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 85
a bottle and your hand? a bandanna? "smooth stones" and "soft" pinecones? REALLY? I have dropped a deuce many a times in the woods with nothing but what I could find purely out of necessity. I however would NOT go on a trip planning to do this. You can buy rapid-dissolve biodegradable toilet paper for relatively cheap or just use normal toilet paper (its biodegradable!) dig the cat hole deep and far from anything and finally COVER it goodjob
_________________________
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#153007 - 07/23/11 03:43 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Teej]
greghp Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 5
Loc: milton,wa
well i asked my grandfather who is like 80 now about doin the number 2 in the wood and he told me they would bring tp and burn it after use in the hole rite before he covers it. idk if that goes along with LNT but from what i can tell its not a bad thang to do.

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#153010 - 07/23/11 04:46 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: greghp]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6368
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Some burn their TP; some have set the forest on fire doing that. All it takes is a sudden gust of wind to blow the burning TP out of the hole into dry grass or needles. Never do this when the fire danger is high!

Note that animals often dig up the waste for the food particles it contains. When they do that, the TP gets scattered around the landscape. One thing which may help is to take water to the cathole with you, pour some in afterwards and stir the waste and TP with a stick to make a "soup" before covering up the hole. This helps to dissolve the paper.

Or you can pack out your TP, which is what I do and what the rangers prefer you do. I have medical conditions which require the use of TP (actually, I use pieces of paper towel, which are more absorbent) and moist towlettes. After a trip to Turkey, where they have a small hose attached to the toilet to clean up, I tried the squirt bottle method a couple of times. It works fine on a real toilet, but in the backcountry it runs down my legs and into my pants (aargh).
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#154264 - 09/02/11 02:50 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: OregonMouse]
daryn Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/11
Posts: 19
Someone up the thread mentioned mullein. It is pretty plentiful on the front range of the Rocky Mountains and is often called "indian toilet paper" or "cowboy toilet paper". Very soft.

Great Mullein

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#154276 - 09/02/11 10:52 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Pappy]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Pappy
The TP and our waste is very degradable. The problem is folks don't cover the cat-hole well enough and some critter will dig up the corpse and scatter it and the TP about the area. Very bad.



The TP you buy for home use is not. It's cotton fabric, practically, and it lasts a long, long time. The TP you buy for RVs (with chemical toilets) breaks down rapidly, as does the biodegradable stuff you'll find at sport stores. There's a reason the TP you find in the solar powered bacteria toilets in Yosemite/SEKI is not so soft and thick as the Charmin back home.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#154362 - 09/06/11 04:01 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: lori]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
I've given up toilet paper both at home and on the trail. There is a great variety of leaves in my yard and they are cheap. May as well practice and save some money while I do it.

_________________________
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#154372 - 09/06/11 06:42 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Gershon]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 829
Loc: Torrance, CA
Originally Posted By Gershon
I've given up toilet paper both at home and on the trail. There is a great variety of leaves in my yard and they are cheap. May as well practice and save some money while I do it.



Do you have enough space for all the catholes?

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#154378 - 09/06/11 08:25 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: OregonMouse]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1717
Loc: Napa, CA
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Note that animals often dig up the waste for the food particles it contains. When they do that, the TP gets scattered around the landscape. One thing which may help is to take water to the cathole with you, pour some in afterwards and stir the waste and TP with a stick to make a "soup" before covering up the hole. This helps to dissolve the paper.

Or you can pack out your TP, which is what I do and what the rangers prefer you do.


In many parks, rangers don't suggest this--they REQUIRE it.

And it is what we do in all cases. WE are SICK of seeing toilet paper in the backcountry. And yeah, it probably started out buried. But it wasn't when we got there.

Thanks.
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#154682 - 09/15/11 01:55 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: balzaccom]
Tye Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Texas
Just a newbie here reading through the thread laughing. Trivia note: Sears & Roebuck invented the glossy covering for catalogs in the early 20th Century. You can guess why.

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#172978 - 12/12/12 03:29 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: Tye]
StylinLP Offline
member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 21
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Why not just wear a catherter and a bag/diaper? That is what forest rangers should require smile

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#172995 - 12/12/12 10:17 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: balzaccom]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2742
Loc: California
I actually find more Kleenex on the trail than TP. And Kleenex is NOT at all biodegradable - that is why you do not put it in a toilet. Those delicate hikers need to learn to "snort" out the snot. The most Keenex I find is between the High Sierra Camps in Yosemite. I really wonder what people are thinking dropping a used Kleenex on the trail? Do the drop it on the floor in their house?

We all know the TP is a luxury, not a necessity. Much of the world's popluation do not use it. Consider it a priviledge to take it. Come on, it is NO BIG DEAL to put it in a plastic bag and carry it out. None of it belongs in the Wilderness, either above ground or below.

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#173217 - 12/21/12 08:57 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: wandering_daisy]
hillslide Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/21/12
Posts: 1
Wet wipes and a plastic bag...

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#175724 - 03/12/13 07:29 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: hillslide]
enthusiast Offline
member

Registered: 12/03/12
Posts: 31
Loc: Auglaize CO., OH
Hemorrhoids? Anyone? You surely must use the wet wipes for that, right?

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#175837 - 03/18/13 01:02 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: balzaccom]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
One of my regular hiking spots (it's a day hiking spot) gets heavy human traffic. For some reason there are certain times when toilet and tissue paper collect all over the place. It's pretty disgusting; some of it has obviously been dug up by animals. When it gets that way, I'll wear plastic gloves and bag all I see. There is a few of us that will do this; pick up trash. Otherwise it just stays there.

Just bring a plastic/ziplock bag and carry it out.

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#175848 - 03/18/13 04:43 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: skcreidc]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6368
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Extreme heroism!!! awesome
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#175853 - 03/18/13 07:53 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: OregonMouse]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1717
Loc: Napa, CA
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Extreme heroism!!! awesome


Amen~!
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#175886 - 03/19/13 05:17 PM Re: serious question: Toilet paper! [Re: balzaccom]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Sheesh people, you both are making me blush! blush There are at least four of us picking up stuff, but thanks for the props. Nice to know it's appreciated.

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