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#111494 - 02/19/09 10:34 AM Hammock bug netting closure
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
I have checked out the hammock forums, but I wanted to get your thoughts here as well because I know how serious we are about shedding weight.

In preparing a design for a hammock, I've been thinking about how to attach the bug netting. I will sew one side into the hammock body. The other side of the netting is my issue. I could use a zipper or velcro. Zippers break, but are more convenient. Velcro is probably lighter, but harder to handle. Especially when trying to line up a long line of it.

Are there any ideas out there that I'm not aware of? What would you do and why?
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#111501 - 02/19/09 11:49 AM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I used Goop adhesive to glue the hook and loop to the edge of the hammock and the netting. If you fasten the hook and loop after you get out of your hammock and use snake skins to pack your hammock it keeps it from fouling and tangling. It does take a little time to fasten the hook and loop once in the hammock but I haven't had a problem so far. In the middle of the night if you want to exit, I just rip the hook and loop apart, do my thing and spend a minute or two refastening. I'm sure that others have a better way but that was my first attempt at sealing up the hammock with the netting. Be careful to pull on the hook and loop and not the netting as you can pull it loose.
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#111515 - 02/19/09 04:35 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Don't use a zipper.. yuck..

If you plan on bivying on the ground in your hammock, then velcro on both sides. I really like being able to get in *either* side so I don't have to worry about which way I pitch it, depending on what I'm hanging over. it doesn't matter if you're hanging over flat ground, but if you get a bit more creative on where you hang, it's nice to be able to get in either side.


On the other hand, my first suggestion is don't attach the bugnet at all! make your bugnet so it will go over a ridgeline, and hang down over your sides. put a few pockets in the sides of the bugnet that you can put some rocks or sticks or coins in,and you're done. the hanging bugnet will be against the sides of your hammock and you won't have any issues. I've slept in one like this in horribly buggy conditions without any problems.. just make sure the ends of the bugnet are together (velcro, snaps, duct tape etc) so they
aren't coming in the ends. but really, when you're hanging you don't need the bugnet attached to the hammock to keep the bugs out. you just need it against the side of the hammock.

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#111520 - 02/19/09 05:05 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
Are there any ideas out there that I'm not aware of? What would you do and why?


I got a Byer Mosquito Hammock as a gift last year. I ripped the netting from the zipper within minutes and I was trying to be careful. When it tore lose, it tore most all the way and with the greatest of ease too.

So, here's what I've been thinking...

Magnets. You can get small (less than "1/4" dia.), super strong, magnets now.

I've seen latches that use these little magnets and they seem to hold very well.

It's be easy to stitch a pair of little magnets with "Pull Tabs" every foot or so along your seam and it'd probably weigh little or no more than velcro or zippers.

Getting them off my wife's purses and make-up kits is getting tougher though. She's starting to eye me funny when I check to see how the latches work on the new stuff she brings home. I may have to find a new source to get enough to finish my hammock.

Doesn't Billy Mays sell a "Clever Clasp"? Maybe I can get her to order some of those wink

Bill

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#111521 - 02/19/09 05:35 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: billstephenson]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
Bill,
Magnets - that's a new idea. And if you are careful enough it could be weight saving. Hmmm... interesting.

At this point, just draping the bugnet over seems like a reasonable idea. Plus, with this method I could remove the bug netting if I ever move out of the south. grin
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#111523 - 02/19/09 05:39 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: chaz]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
Chaz,
What type of netting do you use and how does it respond to the riping away?
I'm planning on using the nanoseeum netting from thru-hiker. I'm concerned with the durability of the netting.
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#111524 - 02/19/09 05:44 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: ]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
Those little things are EXPENSIVE! I was very surprised.
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#111525 - 02/19/09 05:52 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By jpanderson80
Bill,
Magnets - that's a new idea. And if you are careful enough it could be weight saving. Hmmm... interesting.

At this point, just draping the bugnet over seems like a reasonable idea. Plus, with this method I could remove the bug netting if I ever move out of the south. grin


The only time I'm glad I have the velcro is if I go to ground.
and that's pretty rare.. I'm actually probably going to make myself a new un-velcro'ed bugnet, just because not having it attached and just draping it makes it a lot more convenient to get in and out of the hammock. no screwing around re-attaching.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#111538 - 02/19/09 10:40 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I like the way the Blackbird I just got does it - the zipper is not on the bug net at all but a few inches into the fabric of the hammock. There's enough hammmock that leaving the bugnet open and out of the way doesn't affect laying in the hammock.

I have a silk hammock and will use some loose hanging gauzy material for a bug net - going to put pockets along the edges and velcro at the ends to seal them up.
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#111559 - 02/20/09 10:11 AM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: lori]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
Lori,
That Blackbird of yours sounds like the "Mercedes" of hammocks. That's a great idea. You can tell when the designers have spent enough time with their product. This is a good example of that.
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#111562 - 02/20/09 10:28 AM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
jp
You don't really need to attach the netting at all. All attachments come with their own problems. I haven't used an attached net since I sold my HHs years ago.

Mainly, I want to be able to 1. bail out on either side; 2. not use the net at all sometimes like when using the hammock as a chair; 3. avoid failure prone components (how will will a light zipper hold when you roll onto it?); 4. keep the weight down; 5. keep it simple.

Just let the net hang. It seals enough to exclude the bugs. I put large pockets on each side of the net so when the wind is blowing, I can drop something into the pockets to keep the net in place. Of course, when the wind is blowing mosquitoes are not a problem, but the flapping net is distracting.

There are a million attachment-free net designs. Just Jeff's page has several and a search of forums will turn up a lot more.

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#111564 - 02/20/09 11:15 AM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
The netting I use is black from walmart. It's fragil.I think is's for dressmaking etc. I velcro both sides and hang it on a ridgeline. If your carefull it holds up. I have ripped a hole in it and fixed it with goop. I didn't want to spend money on a hammock but found that it works well. I'm still considering a clark and also looking at a tent for cooler temps. I'm not much on tarps for tents but many have used them with success. It would be nice if someone here in memphis had several hammock models to try out. I'm usually disapointed when buying something sight unseen. At least I know what I'm getting with DIY.
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#111583 - 02/20/09 03:17 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: Spock]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
Thanks everyone! After more reading, research and the discussion here, I see no downfall to the "draping" method for hanging bug netting. I even like the idea of having pockets in the netting for function and convenience.

Now, I have to figure out how to stay warm... hmmm...
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#111585 - 02/20/09 03:38 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
You will find interminable discussions here and at hammockforums.net about staying warm. I strongly advise cutting through the b.s. and getting two micro-cell poly pads. The smaller the cells, the higher the r-value. Sometimes Walmart has good ones, sometimes not. Hammocks work better with full length and full width pads. Then cut 4 rectangles 10x16 from one of the pads. Keep the rest of that pad for torso insulation in Antarctic cold. Tuck the rectangles under your shoulders and anywhere else you feel a cold spot. This system is simple, inexpensive, fiddle free and effective. Or you could sink large bucks and lots of fiddle time in underquilts and such without gaining any more comfort, weight savings or trail time. Just my not so humble opinion, having tried it all and having lived in a hammock for close to 12 total months of trail nights in all weather.


Edited by Spock (02/20/09 03:40 PM)

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#111586 - 02/20/09 03:46 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: Spock]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
I just use my Exped Wallcreeper as a PeaPod and stay toasty warm:
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6234

BF cool
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#111651 - 02/21/09 12:57 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
To stay warm I add a temporary pocket under the hammock with a cheap space blanket and use xtra clothing in the pocket for insulation. Also wear long underware, socks and a sock hat. Beyond that you would probably need to go to the ground in a tent because the weight difference will surpass the weight savings of the hammock. Phat... help me out here. I know you have discussed this many times. Also a scale would come in handy. Something I have yet to purchase.
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#111659 - 02/21/09 02:15 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: chaz]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By chaz
To stay warm I add a temporary pocket under the hammock with a cheap space blanket and use xtra clothing in the pocket for insulation. Also wear long underware, socks and a sock hat. Beyond that you would probably need to go to the ground in a tent because the weight difference will surpass the weight savings of the hammock. Phat... help me out here. I know you have discussed this many times. Also a scale would come in handy. Something I have yet to purchase.


I do this, but not with an extra pocket under the hammock. since that is just useless weight that can't serve any other purpose. What I do is carry an integral designs silponcho for raingear, sitting tarp, etc. etc. at night before I go to bed
it takes about 5 minutes to rig it underneath my hammock as that "temporary pocket" - it also blocks wind nice. I carry a couple of cheap little space blankets (the disposable kind) which I wad up and put in there to keep the air from moving around too much. This provides a pretty good windblock and insulating layer, and with a blue pad in my hammock, I'm good
down to a bit below freezing. if I expect colder I have a wad of poly insulation that cost me like 3 dollars at walmart, it's cut roughly hammock bottom shaped. it goes in then the space blankets, and voila - deconstructed underquilt, and I am comfortable wearing clothing, with an appropriate bag down to about -10C in this rig. I've never gone colder. I prefer this
method to a dedicated underquilt or a pocket, because the shell of the system (the poncho) is used for other things and thus saves weight.

However, you are talking about weight as opposed to comfort. Sorry, a hammock is a pretty light rig, and *very* comfortable, but it's not as light as tarping it on the ground. My hammock with straps weighs a couple of pounds or so. if I leave my hammock at home and sleep on the blue pad on the ground - voila - it's lighter! smile

Now, if you want a little comfort, to compare oranges to rutebagas, I'll tell you my hammock rig with a big 8x10 silnylon tarp overtop. + hammock + blue pad + space blankets (I don't count the poncho) weighs just about the same as what
I would say is reasonably comfortable on the ground for me - and that's a six moon designs lunar solo tent, with a 25 inch wide and long big agnes insulated aircore mattress put inside it. no problems with warmth there, and while not as comfy as a hammock, still very livable. (nothing like sleeping on a blue foam pad on the ground). There are advantages to both. the little tent of course can pitch with no trees, and you don't have to worry so much about your butt being cold. but to me it's still not as comfortable as the hammock, and doesn't have the advantage of having stand up room to dress in the rain, or lounge in and have pleasant conversations with young ladies who wish to get out of the storm while watching their macho companions learn how to set up their tent in weather..

So really, it depends - what do you need for comfortable sleep? if you can sleep comfortably on bare ground with just a thin little blue pad, a small tarp is the lightest thing you could possibly sleep under - if I *really* wanted to be light, I could take only my silponcho, and sleep under that. If you want bug protection, change that to a bivy or ultralight solo tent (like the lunar solo or a tarptent). If you need the big chunky pad to have a decent sleep, those start to get heavy, and into hammock range of weight. but really dude, a hammock is about getting a good night's sleep if you are comfortable in one. If you're one of those people who can sleep comfortably on the floor with nothing but a thin pad - forget it, save the weight and sleep on the ground.


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Any fool can be uncomfortable...
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#111660 - 02/21/09 02:20 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: bigfoot2]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Your down wallcreeper must be a heck of a lot bigger than my synthetic jobby for this to work..
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#111661 - 02/21/09 02:25 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: phat]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
Phat,
My down W.C is a size long. It's very wide even for me. Scroll down when you click this link, i posted pics:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6234

Works great for me!

BF cool
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#111663 - 02/21/09 02:31 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: bigfoot2]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By bigfoot2
Phat,
My down W.C is a size long. It's very wide even for me. Scroll down when you click this link, i posted pics:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6234

Works great for me!

BF cool


Yeah, I know. can't see the pics. not registered. (tried several times but their auto register bs doesn't like me so like sgt rocks, I just lurk there, I don't post smile )
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#111666 - 02/21/09 04:14 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I have to agree on the Mercedes of hammocks - the nice part is the Blackbird costs about the same as a Hennessy. In terms of ultralight shelters 170 is reasonable.

On a semi tangental note, I went this morning to walk around a local park and one of my hiking group members joined me, and of course we were talking about a backpacking trip the group is taking in August - he bought a dome tent at REI and he has a Hennessy, and he was going back and forth on hammock vs tent. He had his tent in his truck (retired folks can go anytime, he sez) and I had my hammock (I was going to a park, isn't that what they're for? smile ) and so we set them up. After a good look at it and asking a few questions, he said he's selling the Hennessy to get the money to buy a Blackbird. I really didn't have to say a word - I set up the hammock while he was setting up the tent, and I was in the hammock while he was still fighting with poles. He liked the pad pocket (Hennessy doesn't have one) and the strap/line suspension. The bugnet really impressed him - the BB has the finer noseeum netting.

I'm just impressed every time I get in the hammock - I wish my bed were half as comfy.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#111668 - 02/21/09 04:36 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: jpanderson80]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By jpanderson80

Now, I have to figure out how to stay warm... hmmm...


Ways I have seen or read about to stay warm in a hammock:

* a garlington insulator - poncho or tarp, big black trash bags, space blankets loosely rolled up in the bags and inserted in the tarp which hangs beneath the hammock. reportedly this is quite toasty.

* underquilts - spendy whether you buy or make them, but once you have a system that works, ultimately very comfy and straightforward. And should it become very very cold, going to ground would leave you with your underquilt and your top quilt to put OVER you.

* pads - versatile and can be used if you are forced to ground, or if your underquilt is confronted with more cold than it can handle, the pad can go into the hammock for added insulation. Any pad will work, even inflatables (just half inflate them). The cheap walmart blue ccf took me to freezing all by itself.

* for Hennessy users, there is a commercially produced Super Shelter - but I have seen one in person and would not bother with it. The pad you already have is more versatile.

* another just-in-case measure, if your insulation is outpaced by the cold - lower the hammock to within inches of the ground, and heap up leaves all around and under it.

* peapod - Speer makes these and they look fabbo. I'm too claustrophobic to consider it, tho.

* hammock overcover, or sock - goes over the bugnetting (cover) or over the whole hammock (sock) and adds warmth pretty much the way a tent would, by enclosing you and trapping the air. You need some sort of ventilation but quite effective.

* insulated hammock - I have seen pics of DIY hammocks with baffles or insulation sewn right into the hammock itself.

* hammock tent with a stove - for below zero winter camping, in combination with peapods and other cold weather gear.

This is noninclusive, of course. I keep it simple with pads and underquilts.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#111670 - 02/21/09 05:17 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: lori]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
I'm just impressed every time I get in the hammock - I wish my bed were half as comfy.


I've only slept in my hammock a few nights so far but I have found it more comfortable than I'd imagined.

I was surprised at how many people I saw in Mexico that use them every night. The house we rented had hooks on the walls in all the rooms to hang them from.

If you came in on a cruise ship you'd probably think the hammocks for sale in Progresso were only souvenirs for tourist. They're not, they're the same ones the people that live there buy to sleep in.

Bill
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"You want to go where?"



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#111676 - 02/21/09 07:13 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: lori]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods

I've made a couple of hammock socks and have used them. They add about 5-7 degrees inside the hammock shelter system. I also use a 3/8 ccf pad when it is below 50F. I'm working on an underquilt, but I'm not quite there yet. When I do, I'll be sure and post pic's.
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#111681 - 02/21/09 09:17 PM Re: Hammock bug netting closure [Re: lori]
Folkalist Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 374
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
You can also pull your tarp in closer and/or pinch the ends in if it's big enough. This doesn't give you a ton of additional warm, but it helps. I use a Kelty Noah 9x9, so I have plenty of length if I pitch it on the rectangular to pinch the whole thing in to help cut down on wind and preserve some sense of ambient temperature.

I never thought about hanging the tarp low and piling up leaves. That is a real good survival idea should the temperature drop significantly lower than you planned for.
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