You're planning a trip deep into grizzly country. You want to tote as little weight as possible, right? So, do you pack that 6 oz can of bear spray or leave it behind and just be careful to follow other bear country etiquette?

Has anyone here ever used bear spray against anything / anyone?

The more I think about it, the more sketchy that stuff seems to be. What if it is super windy day, the grizz rears up, and you have no choice but to spray into the wind, blinding yourself? Is it a gimmick? Your thoughts please.

Something I always wondered, too. Phat, and others living in grizzly country, are you there?

I've used it on my front porch to scare away raccoons who were eating my cat's food.

It was about midnight. I stepped out onto my lit porch in my undershorts and fired the 12 ounce cannister at the raccoons.

Wind was blowing back at me and I got a snoot full of the stuff. It also blew back into the house. My cat panicked and ran.

Raccoons weren't there when the cloud cleared. Not sure what effect it had on them. The scene had quite an effect on my neighbor, however. I was very embarrassed to find that she was on her front porch and witnessed the whole thing.

I've never used the 6 ounce can but the 12 ounce can is very impressive. It spays a large funnel of red powder with the force of a fire extinguisher.

I test fired an outdated can at camp one time. There was just enough wind to gently bring the powder back to me and my hiking partner. We sneezed, coughed and laughed for quite awhile. It was fun.

Never seen bear spray in use but I've seen O.C. spray used on plenty of humans including myself. Oleoresin capsicum, or pepper extract, is the active ingredient used in both. It can be very effective if (A) you manage to spray it in the general vicinity of the eyes, nose or mouth and (B) you manage to deliver most of the product on the target and not on yourself or your allies. Easier said than done. And that's assuming you can unholster it, pull the safety pin, and accurately deliver an effective dose in a timely manner, which could be mere seconds.

Not all humans are affected by O.C.spray even when accurately applied and I can only assume that bears are no different.

Good article on Pepper Spray vs Griz.

Our city animal control officers don't carry spray anymore. Turns out, an animal intent on getting you is so focused on the task that they will charge right through the stuff. Pit bull terriers, and other attack dogs show no effect. Cattle prods, darts, and pistols are what they carry. Apparently the prods work like a stun gun or Taser, and are very effective. I've often wondered if a spray would work fast enough on a seriously intent bear, before it got to you.
(Texas bears are one notch above raccoon, so no problem here. )

"(Texas bears are one notch above raccoon, so no problem here. grin ) "

Texas doesn't have bears, they have big raccoons. When these big "Texas" raccoons leave the state, they call them black bears. Remember, everything in Texas is BIGGER.

I think bear spray is a waste of money, weight, and adds a false sense of security. If you are careful about your food and considerate towards animals - while in their home - then you will be fine most of the time.

As a guide, my boss always made us carry spray but it was more to ease the mental anguish of the parents of the teens that were going with us, than to actually fight off a bear. In over 10 years, he said he never even tested it. (That seems silly now.)

Wind is a good consideration. Another idea - you have to actually have the spray can on your person 24/7 for you to be able to use it. To the privy, to get water... everywhere. I'm not always with my pack right there beside me.

Short answer (and my choice) - I always carry bear spray in grizzly country. I've never had to use it in 10 years of doing so, and I've seen 'em lots. Only ever had it out of the holster "in anger" once - and that was for a mountain biker.

Frankly, I find it less sketchy than a handgun. the stuff from a real "bear" canister (as opposed to a stupid little one that's really for carrying for people) comes out as more of a spew than a fine aerosol, and you are absolutely not trying to hit something with it at long distance in high wind. You're hosing a bear down that's 10 feet from you. I've seen the videos, I've hiked with grizzly biologists. I trust it, and frankly not just to protect my own butt, but to give a potentially overinquisitive bear a good negative reinforcement so I don't get hurt and have to report it and have a bear killed. We have plenty of tourons, and not enough grizzlys..

I do *not* view it as a substitute for proper bear precautions. you're not using it to "defend your castle" rambo style from marauding bears. It's to act as a last ditch defense to stop a bad situation that you've gotten into by chance, which can happen on the trail, but is very unlikely.

Since the OP asked about grizzlys, that's my answer. In black
bear turf I will "sometimes" - and sometimes will skip it. If I ever end up in the north in polar bear country, I'll be carrying a rifle - the only time I'd bother with the weight of
one (other than for hunting) on the north american continent.

Not there yet, but putting together gear lists in my head constantly. I am going to try and be in Cooke City Montana (NE Yellowstone entrance) by April 1st and will be trekking solo and fishing most of the spring/summer, hence the bear spray concerns--i want to be utterly prepared, of course.

Is anyone planning on hiking the Northern Absorakas and/or Yellowstone from May-Sept and need a hiking partner?

I think I'll skip the pepper spray.

I've hiked out there, but always with a partner. Have run into some sketchy black bears while alone in the east though. This one girl I knew in a western mountain town carried bear spray with her EVERYWHERE, even under the seat of her car. Struck me funny. would be more effective against gangs in San Diego or riot control in Paris.

I agree about the false sense of security it provides. If a bear wants something, itll probably take it. Also- how much do bears rely on their sight to begin with? A blind bear could probably rely on its other keen senses to find the hiker who ticked him off.. i dunno.

(phat -- this isn't directed to you. It is a response to the OP)

There are bunches of studies and reports that repeatedly draw the same conclusion; bear spray is effective.

None the less, such studies don't convince everyone (see above) and, to a point, that's OK. Afterall, it's their health and safety that is in play. In a sense, it's similar to wearing seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, life preservers, etc.

But most who discuss the efficacy of bear spray are also interested in, and appreciate, the areas and wildlife where bear spray is applicable. With that in mind, consider:

Bear spray not only gives you some protection (believe it or not), it also protects the bear. A bear that breaks off an encounter and leaves the hiker unharmed is quite likely a bear that will live another day. A bear that swipes/mauls/kills a hiker is a bear that, at the very least, will be removed. More likely, it will be 'euthanized.' Bear spray can prevent encounters from becoming violent and reduce/prevent injuries.

Carry the bear spray...you might save a bear's life as well as your own.

FB

p.s. IMO, if you don't want to carry bear spray you shouldn't put the bear(s)at risk for the sake of mere recreation. In other words, don't hike in grizzly country. There's less than 1200 of them in the Lower 48 and they take up very, very little space (Grand Tetons to the Canadian border, and a handful along the Idaho-Montana border). I know it's a compromise...our activities already do enough to put the bear at risk. But bear spray is one way of mitigating those activities. IMO.

My understanding is that pepper spray gets a reaction from the mucus membranes, not the eyes specifically.

I agree with Phat & Fiddleback. It's not a replacement for good bear avoidance ettiquete, but is rather another tool for safety. Compared to nothing, the leap in protection worth the added weight. Compared to a gun, the weight savings is measured in POUNDS, especially worth it considering that spray's been shown to be at least as effective & more humane than shooting.

Do I think it should be a requirement to carry? That's up to the hiker.

I can understand spray driving off a pesky bear, nosing around.
What I doubt is that it can repel an animal as it bolts for your knees, intent on a fight. Would that spray work in a 20ft. radius and stop a full on charge?
With a dog, no way. Been there.

Fiddleback-
You make a great point about bear spray potentially saving (protecting) a grizzly life. Thanks. You cleared up the issue for me, at least. I'll carry it. I can see the value. The grizzly territory you mentioned is a big swath of back country that I can't stay away from. I would hike elsewhere, but the wildness and beauty of that area is unrivaled in the lower 48. Any suggestions on what is the best / most reliable brand of spray?

I wonder how easily a cattle prod could be integrated into a walking stick (dual purpose mindset)...

It's probably important to note in discussing grizzlies we're not talking about a bigger, meaner version of black bears that want to take our pick-a-nick baskets. This is not a case of oversized opportunistic semi-domesticated problem bears such as in the lower 48. We're talking about a very different critter. A truly wild animal (in most cases not human-conditioned) that considers itself atop the food chain. And with good reason. We do not want to inadvertently surprise a grizz. We do not want to get near its kill. We do not want to get near its cubs. And we do not want to resemble a snack.

I don't hike in grizzly country myself but I know plenty of folks who do--very experienced folks who all carry spray. I will to, should I ever head that way.

I'd read everything you can on grizzly behavior before going--there's plenty available--them make up your mind as to whether to carry it. I'll wager the decision will be yes.

I don't advocate the itty bitty canisters. if I'm carrying it I want enough for a good Seargent Hugh type hosedown, not make some central park mugger's eyes water a bit. I use this:

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?prd_id=845524442621480

It rides nicely on the side of my pack. yes I can reach
that in a hurry:

To use a cliche, I'm glad I made a difference. There are a couple older pages laying around the web that compare brands...I'm pretty sure Backpacker.com has one. The important characteristics to consider are the percentage of active ingredients, the spray distance, and especially the time of spray the canister is capable of. This is dated but worthwhile, http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

There are sprays that are EPA 'registered' but only a couple (because the rest don't meet standards). I think one of the 'approved' brands is UDAP...I know the other is CounterAssault which is the one I carry in a holster just like phat shows in this thread. Mine is usually worn on my belt although I have a pair of trail pants that have front slash pockets that make it comfortable to carry the canister there. The key is to have it readily available. The father and daughter mauled in Glacier two or three years ago had spray...initially packed in a pack and then knocked away after the delay in getting to it...

The timing of your trip matches up with REI's Spring sale, usually in March I think. You can usually get CounterAssault discounted about 20% then. They carry the holsters too. FYI, CounterAssault comes in two sizes. The difference, besides weight, is in spray time. If I was going to be in the back country for an extended time (more than a day's hike out?) I'd carry the larger size or more than one of the smaller. It's fine to spray a bear and rejoice that you had the spray and it worked. But you want enough with you in case you run into that bear again or another one later on...

BTW, bear spray is not the same spray that is used for self-defense against people...or dogs or other threats lesser than grizzlies. Nor will those sprays be effective against the griz.

I agree about the country you're talking about. I'm just outside of Missoula...sort of mid-way between Glacier and Yellowstone. The region, and its wildlife is special to me in case you couldn't tell and it's why I moved here 11 years ago.

FB

Thanks for the info and concerns, I will plan on picking up the large size at my destination this August. The backup plan is a few between the eyes by my partners.

I guess I'm just going to end up as lunch one day.

I once listened to a presentation by a naturalist on the habits and handling of bears etc. She recommended carrying bear spray but she also said to be aware that it is only effective 50% of the time. You have to be closer than 15 feet for it to be possibly effective.

Howie

50% is pretty good when you're facing a half ton carnivore.

If I had to choose between 50% and 0%, I will take the 50%.

I think this page has the bear sprays phat refered to.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302696025

One is 8oz with container, the other is about 12oz.

In Grizzly country, or even Quebec/Ontario, I would think about it. Here in New Brunswick when hiking and camping with my small daughter I use a tent and I carry a big stick and keep the food smells down and hang the food away from the tent. When alone I keep the food smells down, but only hang food at common camp sites, and don't use the stick or tent. The tent is not so much a deterrent, but so the bear can't see that there is a small child, which I think would be the only humans in New Brunswick at serious risk. Northern New Brunswick could be more like Gaspe, where there was a fatality once. Here we have lots and lots of bears, but hardly ever see them. I know they see and smell me, but out of respect more than anything else I try not to tease them with food smells.

I can’t imagine how they come up with a 50% statistic like that. What did they do, run out and spray a bunch of bears to see the results? She didn’t really explain whether it had more to do with the technique (i.e. correct distance, wind direction etc) or whether it was just because some bears are more immune to the spray? It is one of those things where a guy might find out the hard way and not live to tell the tale.

I have some bear spray but so far I have not carried it. Mostly black bears where I go, but grizzlies are a possibility too.

Howie

Who knows. it's a random unsubstatiated statistic. The bioligist types I've discussed it with seem to think it's effective. While 55% might be low, if it's that high, my personal unsubstantiated opnion is that I bet that's more effective than a handgun would be on average.

I have however been cautioned that polar bears appear to mostly unbothered by it - something about their taste and smell being different and relating to their nictating membranes and nose adapted for heading after things underwater. So the line I was fed from the bear people was basically the responsible (for the bear's well being) and prudent (for your well being) was to carry proper spray for "normal" bears - and if you valued your own butt carry a big gun in polar bear turf