I want some Merino wool base layer top and bottom, but there is no way I am paying 80.00 dollars for each. There must be some corporate executive pay included in that price - and don't try to justify it, cause it just aint hap-nin.
Is there a good alternative to name brands that someone knows of ?
Anyone familiar with Terramar brand?

steep and cheap seems to always have merino

I have a Terramar long sleeved crew. The fit is horrendous, there is way too much taper in the shoulders which causes the neck to bunch up under my chin.

I watch for sales and have accumulated a significant number of Ibex, Icebreaker, Smartwool, and Patagonia wool items. I have only paid over $50 for a select few pieces.

They are fantastic in cool weather!

I have SW, it's crap, I have IB and it is superb and all I will now buy, EXCEPT for the very good merino from MEC. Yup, I have been a member since the "coop" started almost and am not a huge fan of most of their gear or many of their policies/practices, but, the merino stuff I have from them is damm good and I am going to buy more.

I wear merino year-round exclusively and hunt, fish, cut firewood and dig organic gardens, so, it gets dirty, sweaty and I have to wash it. I reserve my costly IB for backpacking and some hunting and use the cheaper MEC stuff where I need to treat it like cheap cotton. After three years, mine is still truckin' and it iS a good product, unlike the $125.00 CDN each tops I bought from SW that developed tiny holes after ONE careful handwashing...typical offshore junk.

I've been lucky to find several medium weight sweaters at the thrift store in the $5 to $10 range. Bottoms seem to be non existent. I ended uo purchasing
these bottoms from MEC. Seem to be OK after several washes.

Those are the ones I have, three of them and I am going to buy a fourth. With the MEC merino briefs or IB briefs IF you can ever find them, underneath, you can wear a merino T, merino longlsleeve and then use Primaloft and/or eVent insulation/shell over these.

This is the lightest, most versatile system I have found in decades of trying everything and the one I will stick with. I have tried the various synthetics since they first became available and NEVER found one type that is as comfy at a variety of temps as merino is and they ALL tend to smell after very little wear.

Sounds like you may have gotten a moth damaged piece. I had the same thing happen with an Ibex top that was made in China. They replaced it no questions asked, the replacement is a couple years old and going strong.

I have about three SW zip T's, I machine wash all my woolens in cold water and gentle cycle. My SW shirts vary in age from 1-2 years.

I have no complaints about Icebreaker except that the fit seems to vary quite a bit from piece to piece. Their skin layers are really tight. I also don't particularly care for the thumb hole in the sleeves. I just don't use the feature so it's more of an annoyance than a benefit.

By the way, my Terramar top is a zip T, not a crew.

I've got some smartwool boxer briefs and long underwear and accessories and have not had any problems with it. Watch for sales, I never pay retail. I have some REI merino long underwear and that's been fine as well - again watch for the sales.

Thin merino tops are easy to find in thrift stores as they have become fashionable. I bought a lifetime supply of tops on a closeout at Target a couple of years ago; $5 each.

Your general point on merino is well taken - suddenly Capilene is cheap by comparison.

I have an REI zip-t merino wool top that I like a lot--but they haven't been selling REI-branded wool layers for quite a while now. What's up with that?

It used to be a decent price, and it was the only time I've seen merino layers in tall sizes. But they seemed to drop them, and in their place there are silk layers. A bogus trade, IMO, since silk (no matter how great it feels in the store) handles moisture terribly.

Are you listening, misguided REI buyers?! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I got 100% merino wool long johns from Stanfields factory outlet for $35 a year or two ago. $20 each for top and bottoms but opted for the trap door model. Some said 100% wool and others said 100% merino wool but they didn't look or feel any different. They weigh in at 16oz for XL. I would guess separate tops and bottoms are about 9oz top and 7oz bottoms. Great skin layer or emergency layer for midwinter. I'm not sure if they still make them but they might still have some at their factory outlet in Truro.

http://www.stanfields.com/products.asp

Depends a lot on the weave. Midweight Smartwool in size medium goes 7.7 ounces for tights, 8.1 ounces for the tops. Some heavier tops like the Ibex Shak half zip goes 14.1 ounces. The lightest I have is an Ibex Woollies crew at 5.8 ounces and a short sleeved Smartwool Micro T at 4.5 ounces.

Wool stuff, even though it looks pricey is not compared to all the other stuff ppl tend to buy.

I have icebreaker thirst because thatis all that is availble here in Hungary. I have smartwool and rei socks that I got last trip to the USA along with smartwool 3/4 length longjohn bottoms.

I love all these items.

if shipping to Hugary were not so exepsnive I would have far, far more wool.

I really want to replace ALL of my cothing with wool stuff.

I have a cashmere sweater somebody gave me. thin, thin, thing and so fricking warm it is amazing.

get to a good will store, look for cashmere and other wool sweaters, do not worry about color or style... if it fits and is not uncomfortable, buy it... you will never want anything else as a mid layer.

I wear my merino Ts, BTW year-round, I cycle to work everyday, I hike and ski in them, I even sleep in them from time to time. I usually wear the same T all week long!!!!! YES, I peddle to work, I sweat, I go home I sweat on the ride there... I walk the dog, I go shopping, etc all in the same T next to my skin fo ra week, no stink at all!!!

robi

The outfitter at Harpers Ferry has Minus 33 Merino Wool undies on sale right now. The tops are $29.99 and the bottoms are $29.24 (go figure). Their ebay username is theoutfitteratharpersferry. I have no association with them, but will be getting a set of these!

John

This doesn't really answer your question, but for what it's worth, I've been disappointed with the Smartwool T- and zip-T. I found that the wool T-shirt got much clammier than synthetics in warm weather, and took a while to dry. Obviously, much better than cotton, though.

My zip-T developed several small holes on the first trip...maybe the moth damage another poster mentioned. I'm pretty sure it didn't get snagged on anything.

As I posted, all of my SW and my buddie's did the same thing and it is not moths...my SW merino and my IB and MEC merino are stored together in a chest of drawers in my gear room. I think that it has something to do with the dye process that they use and am REALLY PO'ed about this as my SW tops cost me $125.00 each here in Vancouver, BC.

Again, I strongly suggest looking at the MEC merino as it is almost as good as IB and costs less, some of mine is three years old and I am verfy happy with it. We ujsed to get "Mellofleece" merino from the UK, now that was great stuff and I had "union suits" that lasted for 4-5 years of regular bush wear and were comfy under a wool shirtjac at -20*F when mapping fresh logging on snowshoes....lotsa fun, good work for young guys.

The moth or beetle damage could have happened during shipment or storage before you purchased it, not in your house. As I recall, you said the holes became evident on the first washing. There are few other explanations for numerous small holes to appear suddenly on a new top. If the threads were weak, I'd have to believe they wouldn't have been able to weave with them.

I would have returned the shirt immediately. Like I said, I had an Ibex top develop holes on the first washing and they paid for return shipping and exchanged it.

I have one pair of Smartwool tights and four tops, ranging in age from three years old to just a month old. No holes in any of them.

If you discover moth damage on a new shirt, it's a good idea to quarantine the damaged shirt to prevent eggs from being transferred. If it has contacted your other woolens, it's best to give them a good washing.

Some people seem to have sucess with smartwool. Bad batch for you and your friends?

http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/575661.html

I don't go by tradenames or brandnames or sheepnames any more.
I gotta feel it to believe in it.

I carefully examine and then handwash EVERY bit of clothing I buy and these shirts were NOT holed when I bought them. I have worn merino wool base layers in western/northern Canadian wilderness work/recreation since 1965 and I know how to store my gear, this was not moths. I do not know and could not return "special order" items to the retailer, now going out of business I understand, but, yes, I suspect that this "might" have been a bad batch.

However, given the prevalence of this among guys I know and these are Himalayan, Alps climbers with international trekking and hunting experience who own and use an amount of highend gear that is just huge, I tend to believe them. I will not buy something where it has not been satisfactory and another product(s) has been and Icebreaker consistently performs better than any other merino wool I have had.

I don't mind the odd hole appearing in thrift store stuff I get for $20. If I pay top dollar for something I would expect it to be flawless, and last a long time. I will pay a $100 for a handknit sweater, maybe more, but I have to know the wool and the knitter and I would have to try it on. Skin layers I don't fuss over too much, but if I did pay top dollar I would take Kutenays advice. I would still have to feel it and try it on though. Too much good stuff becomes crap once it goes mainstream.

Look, I don't want to belabor anything and I honestly don't care what type of clothing you buy. I'm just saying that your experience with Smartwool does not jive with my own. And to be honest, I don't know how a lay person would be able to say with any certainty that a garment was/wasn't damaged by insects (moths, carpet beetles) or was/wasn't the result of poor process control without a scientific investigation. Neither of us is an expert on the manufacture of wool garments.

I inspected my Ibex top when I received it. I also tried it on before washing it. I did not observe any defects, and I did look. When I washed it and tried it on again, there were literally thousands of tiny holes. I can't say it was insect damage, but to me it is the most logical explanation. And Ibex offered no explanation, they just sent me a new piece which I still have.

My merino and other woolen garments are always stored together in either a closed chest of drawers or large MEC zipper duffles. I do not use the SW tops for anything except hunting as that is what I bought them for in OD green and they are mixed with all my other merino during storage. Yet, NONE of my other and much more often worn merino or other woolens IN THE SAME storage developed ANY holes. That is why I think that the SW stuff is defective in some aspect of manufacture.

IF, moths had managed to get into my storage, unlikely, but anything is possible, then, I think that they would have chowed down on at least some of my other merino as well as the SW. So, I conclude that SW merino is not as good as IB and it stretchs like crazy, which my IB does not.

Like you, I care not what others buy, but, I post this here to give help to anyone seeking merino garments as this is my experience.

I did not say that moths or carpet beetles got into YOUR storage. I said that it may have happened PRIOR to you receiving it. It could have happened anywhere- warehouse, ship, truck, retail outlet, etc.

The Ibex top I referenced was received via mail order (from Ibex). The package was opened, garment washed, and holes discovered all in one evening. The damage was done before I got it.

I have still been searching for a deal.
I went back and looked at a reciept from two years ago when I bought 3 henley sweaters from Woolrich at a discounted price of 19.97 each. An 88 dollar savings off list price. It was a a good deal in my mind. I want that kind of deal on a decent quality peice of gear. Back in the early 70's my grandfather gave me a set of his wool long johns and socks and I have always been a wool fan. Over the years, until wool got as popular as synthetic, I had several good peices. But now that its popular it costs more. I wonder how much the top 5 executives at SW and IB make per year - and how much of that would I be contributing if I bought a top and bottom from them. Thats where I think the cost is in that type gear - so I may have to keep searching and find some on sale during the summer or maybe after christmas.
Thanks for all the input and I will be sure and search reviews before I purchase.