Hi guys, please forgive if this is a stupid question, but what are the laws on backpacking? Any time I go out, I feel as if I'm breaking the law setting up camp somewhere. I understand the deal with parks you pay to backpack, but what if you just walk into somewhere? Just recently spent the night at Spooner Lake, and found a beautiful site, but was worried the rangers would ruin my trip. Are my worries unfounded?

It's a good question. I think there are usually signs posted if there are restrictions on hiking or camping. The main thing is to know where you are going, i.e. a good map and a little bit of research on Land Use. Someplaces are legal to hike by day, but not by night. Other places are legal to hike day or night but not legal to camp, but as long as you are leave no trace, and stealthy, and tired, what's camping really? Any port in a storm.

But if it's a place with rangers, I would always ask the rangers what the deal is, then go from there.

Parks seem to be the most regulated of any place you can go to. You need to check their regulations, usually posted at the trailhead or call. Some places, you will need a wilderness permit, some may cost a little. Funny, in Yosemite, along some popular trails, no camping within four miles of the TH, but if camping along the road, you have to be a mile from the road. They also want you to use existing campsites. If they can't find you, no worry, but you might be impacting an area you are in such as a meadow. Also, alot of city folk come to the mountains and want to have a campfire, something about, that is what camping is about. Depending on the season, they would be illegal due mostly to fire danger. With that said, some locals do stupid stuff, target practice out in the woods during high fire danger, mechanics welding and grinding in an area they haven't wetted down or taken precautions. Areas outside of Parks may be your best bet, such as National Forest land, camping allowed anywhere except on the Tahoe NF. As their signs read, camping and campfires in campgrounds only. Stay off of private property. I would suggest acquiring a map of any areas you want to visit or ask that areas Forest Service if you can camp in a spot you want to visit. Most are real helpful as they want to have the public land used. I have camped a few times where no one has camped before or recently, I just left no trace, even had a fire. I dug down in the dirt a little for a safe spot for it, the next morning, I covered it up. I have been back to that spot to camp, I could not find where my fire had been. I live in a small population county, but within less than two hours to very popular camping/hiking/bping areas, so I can go close to home and see few if any people if I want.

We'll see if you come back, most newbies forget they posted something here.

No worries, I'm very interested in this subject. So, I take it there are no national or state wide rule/regulations that govern this type of activity? Makes sense to ask the ranger before hiking in, but I guess the worry is them saying "no, you can't", and me having to find another spot in a hurry. Anyway, I live in the bay area, and there is so much land out here that would be great to hike threw and camp, but most of it seems to be off limits. Other places that you can hike, I'm pretty sure just setting up camp would be forbidden (even without a fire). I've twice hiked up Mt. Diablo here in the easy bay a few times, and while hiking it saw some great spots to pop a tent and spend the night, but end up staying at their traditional sites which really takes the fun out of backpacking. Maybe I'll call and ask just out of the blue and see what they say. I'm pretty sure I know what they will say, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

Anyone have any recommendations of nice areas here close to the bay area that your not charged to stay the night? Sometimes it's not avoidable, but I'd love to get some kind of return being able to camp for free at only the cost of the expensive equipment. Hope that didn't come out weird, lol. Thanks for all the advice, and I'm all ears.

I'm not familiar with the bay area, though I have visited a few times. Very nice.

I think you should consider two different camp setups. You seem to like tents. Use those where camping is clearly permitted and accepted. Consider a stealthier setup for places that are open to hiking but where camping might be less clearly permitted and accepted. Basically a day-hiking setup, but prepared for an emergency overnight. Have fun with it. Should be very do-able. How cold does it get there?

Stealthy doesn't have to be expensive though. Stealthy can be very frugal. Having no tent helps. Just a crash anywhere type setup. Use a bivy and maybe a rain poncho/tarp when needed, and a smaller pack that looks more low-key and day-hikish. Avoid flashy colours, but don't look like a vagabond either. Traditional British style hiking clothes, like wool sweaters and wool pants and nylon anoraks and green rain ponchos can be highly functional, low-key, and still very classy in an understated way. The Brits and Kiwis are absolute masters at being cheap and classy and unobtrusive. Aussies and Americans, not so much. It's all in the understatement. "Oops, sorry old boy. Lost my way and it was getting rather late. You know how it is. Any port in a storm eh. Know a good place that serves breakfast." <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Here's a fellow hammocking in a Toronto park.
It talks about trespassing laws in general. Quite interesting.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=3Tzut&page_id=35787&v=3W

I would be more concerned about personal safety than anything else, and not bothering folks. Common sense.

Check out this site; it discusses some great hiking/bp'ing in the Bay Area.

http://www.bahiker.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=9&topic=23

I am not sure it still is done, but I think that you get 3 nights free camping per person, per year at several campsites in the Marin Headlands Park.

The Bay Area is tough - they really prefer that nobody overnight camps. Henry Coe is the largest park for backpacking in the Bay Area. They charge a minimal fee per night for backcountry camping. Unfortunately a lot of the park burned a few years ago.

I have "stealth camped" in Point Reys on the beach. Just do not use a tent and wait until dark to sleep and be up at dawn. Be sure your backpack is small - very minimalistic - so it can honestly be classified as a day pack. I have observed that many people do this. Yes, you could get busted. But it is not too likely if you are careful.

North of Bodega Bay, people regularly party on the beach - campfire all night - so I do not see that stalth camping here is much different.

In summer, just drive a bit to National Forest lands and do dispersed (very legal) camping. You just have to get an annual fire permit (free) at any FS office. The Coast Range actually gets very little use - Yolo Bolly, Snow Peak area, and more.

Mokulmne Wilderness is really not used much and mostly free. For example, nice weekend hike from dam at Salt Springs Reservoir to east end. Desolation Wilderness has the stupid fee of $5 a night and they really do check! Another nice no-fee area the area east of Forest Hill. You can drop 3,000 feet into the North Fork of the American River - Mumford Bar etc. Lots of free FS campsites up top too.

Also, what about Ventena Wilderness. This area does not seem to have fees.

On the cheap? Even us experienced bpers like free camping, at least the night before a long trip. As the saying goes, race what ya brung. Use what you have around your apartment or house. You may already have a backpack, sleeping bag, mattress, cheap tent for good weather until tested, bp stove. The rest, what you use everyday now. Some people eat about what they would eat at home, me, I bring different stuff that is quicker to fix. As you gain experience, you will evolve. Enjoy.

If you're ever in Nevada I would probably avoid area 51.

I cannot help you with recommendations of areas close to you. But if any one is going to Europe, then at least two countries have just the conditions you ask, namely Norway and Sweden (and I think Finland also, 95%sure). I know that free camping is not permitted in the rest of Europe, at least the western part of it. In England they call it wild camping.

We in Scandinavia have a law called "allemannsretten" meaning "the right of all persons". This means that you are permitted to put up a tent wherever you like as long as it is in outside towns and on uncultivated ground. The tent must not be close to habitated houses, at least 150 meters away from these. You are also permitted to pick all kinds of wild growing berries, nuts, fruits, mushrooms aso in the amount you wish, also for the purpose of commercial income (ie selling what you have gathered) on uncultivated ground.

I know that it is some distance for you, but some of you may perhaps come this far. We have enough space, population density is just 15 per Km2, or 5,8 per mile2 here in Norway. Welcome to Norway, the country where "wild camping" is the main rule.
/Otto

I'm still fairly new to backpacking. This last year was my first go at it, but before that I was an avid long distance hiker. I don't know if it matters much, but this is a list of some of my gear....

1) REI 08 Mars 85L backpack (considered deluxe because of it's weight?)
2) North Face Lunarfire tent (it's older, and compared to todays backpacking tents, on the heavy side, but with me and my girl, it's comfortable)
3) Kelty 20 degree LightYear down sleeping bag (compresses small, weights almost nothing and is actually quite warm in the 20's)
4) REI Trekker 1.75" self inflating sleeping pad.
5) MSR Pocket Rocket
6) GSI Dualist cook system (my new toy)
7) Katadyn Vario water filter (has it's issues, but works good)
8) Platypus 3L bladder (REI said I was crazy to carry this much water, but for some reason I drink tons)
9) Life+Gear Life Light, an LED lantern that does a billion other things.
10) And of course, a Garcia bear vault for the sierras

I'm still working on the whole lightweight thing, right now my loaded pack weights in excess of 35lbs. So far it hasn't been an issue with me (somewhat comfort driven), but I see with age, or week+ long trips having an issue down the road.

I am a big tent person, but mostly because my girl gets freaked out by everything. Somehow that thin layer of fabric makes her, and thus, me sleep better. The tent is blueish/green colored, so it doesn't stand out like crazy, but it doesn't blend in the best in all instances. After a few years I plan to upgrade to something newer and lighter, and I'll be sure to keep color in mind. I'll also be sure to check out all your guys links, I appreciate it.

I wonder, has anyone been busted for camping where they shouldn't? I mean, what do they do? I'll admit that at Mt. Diablo I arrive late, set up and bounce before anyones the wiser, but I'm always nervous and it kind of takes away from the fun of it. But then again, they charge $20 a night driving up with a huge party or someone hiking up the mountain. If I get busted though, I know I deserve it.

And thanks wandering_daisy, I'm going to look into those. In the long future when work and college aren't killing me, I'd like to try the California Costal Trail (at least the half from Oregon to Santa Cruz). It must not be an issue camping wherever there since there's no mention of sites, but maybe most of it is in national forest? I'm going to look more into this National Forest camping thing. We have tons of forest here in California, something must be close.

I still want to try the Skyline to the sea train at Big Basin, and it's only $10 a night (compared to $25 for car camping, adds up quick). And I'll be calling Redwood Regional park to ask them about permits about backpacking. I figure they will say no, but it's close and would be a great place to go into and find a nice quite place to spend the night. There is also Point Reys that I need to check out. Anyway, now I'm rambling, sorry for that. I really appreciate the advice.

Not that big in camping in open spaces, or deserts, but I'll be sure to avoid the Groom Lake area, lol.

If you are interested in backpacking in the San Francisco bay area, I would highly recommend this book:

Camping and Backpacking the San Francisco Bay Area
Author: Matt Heid
ISBN 0-89997-295-0

GREAT information about the SF Bay Area. Many places do require permits, some with a fee. I have not read it all, there may be some places to fit your need.

There are places in the Sierra where permits are required, but there is no fee- such as Lake Elanor (Northern Yosemite), and places in the Sonora area.

Good luck!!

I've been scouting a place to stealth camp around here. Better than the backyard. Just don't camp like the character in the movie "Drillbit Taylor"

I have not been to the bay area for many years (I think I was 6 or 7 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />). But, here in Utah, they have BLM land (Burro of Land Management). Google BLM, then go to their website and find California. Get a BLM map and then you know where all the BLM land is near by.

With all your talk of Norway, I am trying to understand why my ancestors left. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I definitely need to visit.

If you want to go camping anywhere in the woods, ask yourself a few questions.

Is it in a national park? Visit the web page of the park in question to review requirements and regulations. You can in fact camp in Yosemite backcountry for free - all you do is show up at the right time to get a first come/first served wilderness permit. Same with Sequoia/Kings Canyon. You have to agree to follow their rules and those differ from one park to the next, so review those websites! You will need a bear can or risk a fine. You will leave pets at home. You will not light campfires over 10,000 or 9,000 feet elevation, depending on location.

Is it in a national forest? if it is, check National Forest Service - each national forest has different rules, too. For example - Los Padres National Forest (Monterey district) does not require a wilderness permit but many parking lots near trailheads will charge a small per day fee to leave your car, and you will likely need a free campfire permit to operate a stove or build a fire in any national forest. All of these rules and locations from whence to obtain wilderness permits and also maps are on the website!

Is it in a state park? Look those up too! State park website will tell you where they let you camp, how they expect you to handle it (make reservations? just show up?).

Most everywhere, it is expected that you will make camp at least 100-300 feet from water sources, dig catholes at least 100 feet from a trail or water source, and pack out all your trash (including used tp in places like Yosemite). Some places (a few lakes in the Sierras, for example) allow no camping at all. Your worries are not unfounded - if you are caught breaking rules you may be given a fine.

Some guidebooks will have info on permits but be aware that requirements change - the websites are the place to go to find phone numbers for ranger stations you can call.