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#106007 - 12/04/08 04:36 PM Re: Anti-Light - Flip side of heavy scout pack [Re: JAK]
chuck Offline
member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 83
Jak, "Light weight is really only a serious consideration for older folks " - I never thought about weight in my 20's. I got interested in lightweight gear in my 30's when I started hiking with my wife and son and it soon became apparent I was gong to be the family sherpa. Either I lighten the gear or I was destined to struggle like an overburdened mule traversing the North GA up and downs.

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#106008 - 12/04/08 04:55 PM Re: Anti-Light - Flip side of heavy scout pack [Re: chuck]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Quote:
Jak, "Light weight is really only a serious consideration for older folks " - I never thought about weight in my 20's. I got interested in lightweight gear in my 30's when I started hiking with my wife and son and it soon became apparent I was gong to be the family sherpa. Either I lighten the gear or I was destined to struggle like an overburdened mule traversing the North GA up and downs.
lol

My daughters always been a great hiker but she still likes me to carry her now and then, and I was kind of hoping it might be like the man that lifts the bull calf each day. Well she is still only 50 pounds, but even with a 10 pound daypack that can add up. I tried lifting her up on a few hills on the way back on the last hike to get home a bit quicker. That didn't work. If I lost 60 pounds, maybe. Now I gotta see if I can lose some weight faster than she's gaining it.

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#106009 - 12/04/08 05:39 PM Re: Anti-Light - Flip side of heavy scout pack [Re: JAK]
chuck Offline
member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 83
Jak, no matter what my family starts carrying I end up carrying most of.....

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#106010 - 12/04/08 07:35 PM Re: Anti-Light - Flip side of heavy scout pack [Re: chuck]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I think we need a new metric for gear weight comparisons.

TFSOW = Total Family Skin Out Weight

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#106011 - 12/05/08 07:01 AM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: phat]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Quote:
Ithe problem being that they don't have the lightweight equipment to make a lightweight pack work.If the parents aren't into it, they don't get as it really helps to have lugged your own load over hill and dale to appreciate doing it right. There is also that fear of the kid outgrowing the equipment quickly but if you buy used and sell it to the next kids coming up, there is little expense at all. Just had to vent.


To truly go super ultra light, you need to spend some dough. to just be lightweight, I'm convinced it's cheaper if you actually go through a basic semi light list that any kid could
use.

let's try - assuming above freezing type weather - weekender type trips.

alcohol stove (spend 30 minutes making one from discarded cans... ) $ 0.00
Wal mart grease pot or AGG pot $10.00
Plastic spoon 0.00
Pop bottle for alcohol 0.00
2x 1litre pop bottles for water 0.00
aquamira/pristine 15.00
4 garbage bags (stuff sacks, waterproofing, etc.) 0.00
Lighter 1.00
plastic cup 1.00
reasonable first aid kit $10.00
Pocket knife $5.00
headlamp (heck, Petzl E-light!) $25.00
Sleeping Bag or Quilt (I can buy an REI kilo flash 40 for $90 right now) $100.00
2 sets liner socks (poly) $15.00
2 sets merino wool hikers $25.00
blue foam pad $10.00
Good Set of Kids Running Shoes [2] They've already got them
Backpack (GG virga use blue pad for frame) $100.00
clothing[1] $25.00

[1] - i'm assuming like many kids. half their clothing is already synthetic. Find their favorite pair of athletic pants and send them with them. the $25 for clothing is to be spent at the thrift store or wal-mart rounding out what they don't have with synthetics. I'm gonna assume they take a set of long johns to sleep in, a fleece jacket, nylon windbreaker and a cheap light rain poncho such can be had at wal mart for a couple of bucks. easy to get at
the thrift store. long johns might have to be purchased.

[2] any kid will hike fine in their day to day runners. - yes you probably shouldn't take them boulder hopping down a talus slope in them, but get real - it'll work fine for starter hikes with quick drying socks.

There's a $340 start - if that' rich for your blood, substitute the $25 wal-mart snugpack style ripoff sleeping bag and put in an extra fleece to sleep in, and buy a walmart frameless ruck for $25, and you're down to $190. use poly dress socks and wool
socks from the thrift store and nock off another $35 so you are down to $155.

For shelter, lots of options. maybe a tarptent style beast, maybe shared with another
scout, or maybe a hennesey hammock, or six moon designs wild oasis - lets' say between $80 and $175 bucks. You can get more creative here to save money of course.

So that's $500 for the "cadilac" end with a hennesey and gear that'll last, or $235
for the cheaper stuff with 80 bucks toward a share of a shared shelter or he/she learns to tarp it. - if the troop has shared tents they may not need that.

What does the kid need to learn?
1) how to use the alky stove, and cook and eat FBC style.
2) How to use their shelter, whatever it is
3) how to hike in socks/clothes that can get moist, and put on dry ones to sleep in at night, change back next day when moving.
4) how to use aquamira/pristine for water.
5) How to put one foot in front of the other without excessive snivelling.

I mean come on folks. I see those kind of prices for just an overpriced heavy *backpack*,
nevermind what an Xbox and a couple of games costs.


Maybe I need to start a post with a challenge for a 20lb $200 lightweight gear list.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#106012 - 12/05/08 02:41 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: phat]
Bansko Offline
member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Wyoming
I remember carrying one of those monstrous folding knives with the spoon, fork, etc. as a Boy Scout. Obviously, a lot of you remember that. My nomination is the half gallon blanket covered canteen though, with the galvanized steel in the middle. I think you can still buy them.

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#108143 - 12/21/08 01:45 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: phat]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
I'll have to nominate most of the people I saw at the Backcountry Office when I was at the Grand Canyon last January. They have a scale where you can hang your pack on a hook and as I was waiting for my number in line to come up, I was amazed at all the people getting 50lb and more on their packs -- and some of them were sort of bragging, like it was a proof of manhood or something.

I felt that I wasn't really lightweight with about 23lb pack weight for 4/day-3/night.

But I was perhaps most astonished when I went down and was camping at Bright Angel campground. My next door neighbors were a man and woman in perhaps their 40s or 50s. They had -- not one, but TWO -- propane stoves of the 1# cylider variety (that 1# of propane in a heavy metal cylindar plus the stove attachment). Must be at least 4# each!
_________________________
Human Resources Memo: Floggings will continue until morale improves.

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#108152 - 12/21/08 04:40 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: Keith]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

4 lbs each is heavy, but think about how many people you've
seen on the trail with say, a whisperlite with a full litre bottle of white gas - that's 3 to 3.5 lbs there easily!

_________________________
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My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#108196 - 12/22/08 07:38 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: Keith]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
But I was perhaps most astonished when I went down and was camping at Bright Angel campground. My next door neighbors were a man and woman in perhaps their 40s or 50s. They had -- not one, but TWO -- propane stoves of the 1# cylider variety (that 1# of propane in a heavy metal cylindar plus the stove attachment). Must be at least 4# each!


They hired the mule train to carry the load.


Edited by coyotemaster (12/22/08 07:40 PM)

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#108244 - 12/23/08 08:39 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: coyotemaster]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Originally Posted By coyotemaster
Quote:
But I was perhaps most astonished when I went down and was camping at Bright Angel campground. My next door neighbors were a man and woman in perhaps their 40s or 50s. They had -- not one, but TWO -- propane stoves of the 1# cylider variety (that 1# of propane in a heavy metal cylindar plus the stove attachment). Must be at least 4# each!


They hired the mule train to carry the load.


Nope. They were backpackers!
_________________________
Human Resources Memo: Floggings will continue until morale improves.

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#108289 - 12/25/08 10:23 AM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: finallyME]
atraildreamer Offline
member

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 73
Loc: RI
Originally Posted By finallyME
So, for number 2 and 6, I nominate the "survival knife". You know the kind, less than 20 bucks, has a hollow handle with stuff in it, sometimes accompanied by the words "special forces", Stainless Steel blade. Many newbies take it "just in case" and think it is essential. The fact that the blade is crap (too dull to do anything, and crappy steel so it won't hold an edge), the saw on the blade doesn't work, the handle is barely attached and falls off easily, will eventually show itself when it is needed and can't be used. We won't talk about the "survival" stuff inside. Some is good, and some not, but you could make your own little kit that works better and weighs a few pounds less.


I bought one of these years ago at a flea market for $4. We called it a "Rambo Knife" (Stallone was in his prime then!eek ) Fun to look at, and would scare the crap out of burglar if I had to defend myself, but I wouldn't trust it for long-term survival use for the above-stated reasons. (But, the compass in the end of the handle is kind of neat! grin


Edited by atraildreamer (12/25/08 10:24 AM)

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#108380 - 12/27/08 08:07 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: atraildreamer]
Cesar Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 217
Loc: El Paso, TX
Back to the hijacked section of this thread : )
Has anyone seen these packs? Deuter Climber Seems like a decent option for little torsos at 1 lb. 12 oz. Trim off a few loops on top and bottom and if possible take off the top and it can probably be closer to 1lb then 2lbs


Edited by Cesar (12/27/08 08:08 PM)
_________________________
My gear is no where near lightweight

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#108488 - 12/30/08 10:26 AM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: finallyME]
jpanderson80 Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 292
Loc: Memphis, TN
Originally Posted By finallyME
I'll have to think about specifics, but if you look at a BSA store, it is full of these things. The BSA store is designed for overprotective parents who never go camping and only buy name brand stuff.


I'm laughing so hard at this... It is true. The entire store fits into the "anti-light" category.
_________________________
I always forget and make it more complicated than it needs to be...it's just walking.

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#109691 - 01/20/09 11:23 AM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: wandering_daisy]
Dhaval Momaya Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 2
Loc: India
Only galvanized aluminium is toxic.

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#109692 - 01/20/09 11:25 AM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: wandering_daisy]
Dhaval Momaya Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 2
Loc: India
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
I have a titanum cup - and love it! I also really like my titanium cookset. To me it is worth every dollar. I do not use aluminum cookware AT ALL. Ingestion of aluminim may be linked to Alheizmers.

I actually cook - not just boil water. In the past when I used aluminum, I felt they burned food more easily.

Now, to put it in perspective, these items were given to me as gifts. I always put the expensive UL gear on my Christmas list!


Only galvanized aluminium is toxic.

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#109868 - 01/22/09 03:21 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: midnightsun03]
Rushthezeppelin Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Tempe, AZ, USA
Originally Posted By midnightsun03
Absolutely... by far my favorite pan in the kitchen is my cast iron. Makes the best biscuits and cornbread, is the original "non-stick" pan as long as it is seasoned correctly, and is infinitely durable. I had quite the collection of cast iron that I left with my ex, but did finally get my original pan back, which I've had since I was 21. Needless to say, I've gone through many sets of pots and pans since then, but the cast iron is still going strong.

MNS


Not only all that stuff.....but it also puts a bit of extra iron into your diet : D

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