Feathered Friends 300x250
Superior Down Sleeping Bags & Clothing

Ultralight Adventure Equipment (ULA)    

   
 
 
Lite Gear Talk

BCG Holiday Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#105982 - 11/13/08 05:56 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: sarbar]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
That's pretty funny. Maybe he's craftier than you think though. I've always thought in hindsite I would have played my cards a little different, been more of a gentleman, nudge nudge, wink wink.

I'll keep working on my Formula Ford. I want to keep is as simple as Weight[pounds] = Height[feet] Squared, but that is a bit heavy. So that might be skin out weight, to allow for winter clothing, and the maximum pack weight might be a fraction of that. Perhaps 2/3 for a well seasoned little brute (I mean lady or gentleman that you need to slow down a little); 1/2 for the average child until you break them in (I mean introduce them to the joys of pack bearing); and 1/3 if it is a typical school pack without a hip belt.

So for Ford...
64" = 5.333 feet ---> 5.333 x 5.333 x 2/3 = 19 pounds pack weight

and for Margaret...
48 3/4" = 4.0625 feet --> 4.0625 x 4.0625 x 1/2 = 8 pounds pack weight

and for a 4'6" child with a pack without a hip belt...
54" = 4.5 feet --> 4.5 x 4.5 x 1/3 = 6.25 pounds pack weight.

Perhaps it makes sense to increase the fudge factor gradually from 1/3 to 1/2 up to 2/3 over successive hikes, in order to have time to get the child used to carrying that weight over distance, and to have time to prove the fit and stability of the pack also. I think I'll start Margaret at 4 pounds and work up. On a very good day she does 20km with no complaints and I don't want to change that.

Have you gotten Ford onto cross country skis or snow shoes?
That stuff seems poorly made in kid sizes also, but he is fair sized now.

Top
#105983 - 11/13/08 06:07 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: sarbar]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Quote:
Ford is a natural born hiker I got lucky with that!
You really did get lucky... mine hates hiking, but LOVES Mtn. Biking... not my preferred sport, but one I might start to like if it means we have an activity together. I did a ton of hiking with Daniel when he was small enough to put in a pack, hoping he'd pick up a love of hiking, but he thinks it is way too slow. Sigh. Someday he'll probably come around, but I'm thinking it might be a while.

MNS
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

Top
#105984 - 11/13/08 06:16 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: midnightsun03]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
If I get a few more good long hikes out of her before she tweens out on me I'll be thrilled. She's a natural born hiker though. I'm pretty sure she will take it up again later if she stops going, though perhaps not with me. That's cool I guess.

Top
#105985 - 11/13/08 07:54 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: JAK]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
Snowshoes: I wasted two years with the kids Atlas's ones. He broke 2 pairs (they were the rigid yellow ones). 3rd warranty pair they gave me the red ones that were soft fabric - like adult ones. Well, I ended up selling them as new. At that point a friend of mine who worked for MSR went dumpster diving and found me a brand new, with tags on, pair of MSR Denali Tyker snowshoes (http://www.msrgear.com/snowshoes/tyker.asp) in it. (Yes - they used to just throw away gear if no one wanted it!) He gifted them to Ford. They worked great. Last year though I spent the money on a pair of adult ones (when he hit a size 8 men's shoe). He has MSR Denali Evos (http://www.msrgear.com/snowshoes/denalievo.asp) which are a bit narrower than standard Denali's. (Same as mine) I did not get him tails though since he is so light.

With kids I would be very careful with snow shoes and the crampons. What sucks is that many kids ones don't have enough traction, but adult versions have too much - and a kid tumbling in them could puncture a leg with some brands.

Ford took to snowshoeing like he took to hiking <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Snowshoeing at Rainier a couple years ago (he is in the middle):


The funny thing is....he cannot ride a bike! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Freezer Bag Cooking, Trail Cooking, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
www.trailcooking.com

Top
#105986 - 11/13/08 08:41 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: sarbar]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

Ya know, I keep telling him to be wary of the ladies. His reply was "But if I didn't do it she would be sad". Uh-huh......... lol!


"Stay away from those kid - they ain't nothing but trouble" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top
#105987 - 11/14/08 10:34 AM Re: Kids packs [Re: phat]
Cesar Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 217
Loc: El Paso, TX
Quote:
"Stay away from those kid - they ain't nothing but trouble" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
[color:"blue"]Baloo! [/color] I think your thread has been high jacked. um sorry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

btw: I used to love that movie. Wore the VHS tape out from playing it so much.
_________________________
My gear is no where near lightweight

Top
#105988 - 11/14/08 12:05 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: Cesar]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
Quote:
Quote:
"Stay away from those kid - they ain't nothing but trouble" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
[color:"blue"]Baloo! [/color] I think your thread has been high jacked. um sorry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

btw: I used to love that movie. Wore the VHS tape out from playing it so much.


Lol...and that girl is a red head too! Trouble will be her name! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Love that movie as well.....

We hijack threads badly <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Freezer Bag Cooking, Trail Cooking, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
www.trailcooking.com

Top
#105989 - 11/14/08 04:38 PM Re: Kids packs [Re: sarbar]
Folkalist Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 374
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Quote:
We hijack threads badly


Actually, I think all y'all do a rather fine job of hijacking threads! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Why am I online instead of hiking?

Top
#105990 - 11/16/08 06:27 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: phat]
skinewmexico Offline
member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 81
Pack or Sleeping bag. I showed our troop the "Lighten Up" DVD from Gossamer Gear, and it really got everyone (parents included) thinking.

Top
#105991 - 11/17/08 08:43 AM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyone? [Re: skinewmexico]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Great idea showing the video. I think most parents want whats best for their little trooper but many of them don't have a clue. I think that a lot of dads would think twice about the gear they buy if they got to experience it first hand. Put a pack on dad with about 25 or 30 pounds and have them walk around the block. then they would surley change their way of thinking.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

Top
#105992 - 11/25/08 05:43 PM Heavy Packs [Re: sarbar]
frediver Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 114
The comment on heavy packs was right on.
But:
The Kelty at 4lb. 9 oz. is really not to bad when you consider
Capacity Vs. Weight Vs. what is offered.
Personally I look for a pack at or below 4 pounds and those are few and
far between, many of the better packs currently weight in at 5-6+pounds.
The choice is between somewhat delicate UL packs
or Armageddon Proof ( I hate the B.P. tag) packs that use 15% of
your total load capacity.
I sure would like to find a nice H.D. pack of 70lt. capacity
that did weigh under 4 pounds, not many out there.
If you have any recomendations please list them here, I'm shopping.
Thanks

Top
#105993 - 11/25/08 06:46 PM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: frediver]
Heber Offline
member

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 245
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
Have you considered the ULA catalyst? I don't own one but everyone who owns one swears by them as far as I can tell. They are very popular among thru hikers and they are made of pretty tough stuff apparently. It's 75 liters for under 3 pounds (43 ounces). You were only hoping to get under 4 pounds. I think that ought to be easy for only 70 liter capacity. (That's why I have so little patience for these Kelty packs that have only 3000 cubic inches for over 4 and a half pounds.)

Top
#105994 - 11/26/08 06:11 AM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: frediver]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:

I sure would like to find a nice H.D. pack of 70lt. capacity
that did weigh under 4 pounds, not many out there.
If you have any recomendations please list them here, I'm shopping.
Thanks


Just wait, I am sure Jimshaw will give you one. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#105995 - 11/26/08 06:49 AM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: finallyME]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
The Go-Lite Pinnacle is 72 litres and weighs 0.78 pounds.

I make do with the 48 litre Jam2, even in winter, but I think the Pinnacle would be a great pack for the extra volume needed in winter. I wouldn't carry bricks in it, or swing it off a cliff, but for up to 30-40 pounds at the start of a long trip, yeah. Easy.

Top
#105996 - 11/26/08 06:06 PM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: finallyME]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Finally me, free driver

OK <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Buy an old Kelty spectra pack on ebay. Mine is 6500 cubic inches and depending on modular attachments, weighs between 29 oz and maybe 56 with everything including side pockets and shovel attachments. Look for a white phantom of white cloud. I've used then for 20 years now and there are many really super things. Like you don't have to carry the weight of a summit pack, it is a summit pack, and it can hold anything you want to take to the summit. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
#105997 - 12/03/08 11:34 AM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: Jimshaw]
CCH Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Colorado
In the biggest waste for newbies department, I'd say buying that swell titanium cookset while lugging a four pound sleeping bag and six and a half pound tent. Weight reduction has diminishing returns for the dollar at a certain point and if you don't have the bulk of your weight down to begin with, saving a half ounce or an ounce doesn't do much good.

On the hijack topic, I am extremely frustrated with scouts and backpacking. We live in Colorado and my son is in a troop that does a lot of backpacking in fairly rugged country/high altitudes. Most of the troop is extremely poorly equipped and carrying much more weight than they should. For the little guys, this makes for a particularly tough time with the getting back in part of the trip.The smallest kid in the troop (about 65 lbs.) has an adult pack with NO adjustment other than the waistbelt which won't tighten up enough for him. For the older guys I've passed on Craigslist deals for decent packs at low cost. I can't really recommend much that is truly lightweight because they end up carrying so much for Philmont, the problem being that they don't have the lightweight equipment to make a lightweight pack work.If the parents aren't into it, they don't get as it really helps to have lugged your own load over hill and dale to appreciate doing it right. There is also that fear of the kid outgrowing the equipment quickly but if you buy used and sell it to the next kids coming up, there is little expense at all. Just had to vent.

Oh there is one decent thing from BSA stores, the little fire steel. It is light, cheap and works. Now about those quality knives awarded for popcorn sales that won't close without the whole troop helping out...

Top
#105998 - 12/03/08 07:25 PM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: CCH]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
Ithe problem being that they don't have the lightweight equipment to make a lightweight pack work.If the parents aren't into it, they don't get as it really helps to have lugged your own load over hill and dale to appreciate doing it right. There is also that fear of the kid outgrowing the equipment quickly but if you buy used and sell it to the next kids coming up, there is little expense at all. Just had to vent.


To truly go super ultra light, you need to spend some dough. to just be lightweight, I'm convinced it's cheaper if you actually go through a basic semi light list that any kid could
use.

let's try - assuming above freezing type weather - weekender type trips.

alcohol stove (spend 30 minutes making one from discarded cans... ) $ 0.00
Wal mart grease pot or AGG pot $10.00
Plastic spoon 0.00
Pop bottle for alcohol 0.00
2x 1litre pop bottles for water 0.00
aquamira/pristine 15.00
4 garbage bags (stuff sacks, waterproofing, etc.) 0.00
Lighter 1.00
plastic cup 1.00
reasonable first aid kit $10.00
Pocket knife $5.00
headlamp (heck, Petzl E-light!) $25.00
Sleeping Bag or Quilt (I can buy an REI kilo flash 40 for $90 right now) $100.00
2 sets liner socks (poly) $15.00
2 sets merino wool hikers $25.00
blue foam pad $10.00
Good Set of Kids Running Shoes [2] They've already got them
Backpack (GG virga use blue pad for frame) $100.00
clothing[1] $25.00

[1] - i'm assuming like many kids. half their clothing is already synthetic. Find their favorite pair of athletic pants and send them with them. the $25 for clothing is to be spent at the thrift store or wal-mart rounding out what they don't have with synthetics. I'm gonna assume they take a set of long johns to sleep in, a fleece jacket, nylon windbreaker and a cheap light rain poncho such can be had at wal mart for a couple of bucks. easy to get at
the thrift store. long johns might have to be purchased.

[2] any kid will hike fine in their day to day runners. - yes you probably shouldn't take them boulder hopping down a talus slope in them, but get real - it'll work fine for starter hikes with quick drying socks.

There's a $340 start - if that' rich for your blood, substitute the $25 wal-mart snugpack style ripoff sleeping bag and put in an extra fleece to sleep in, and buy a walmart frameless ruck for $25, and you're down to $190. use poly dress socks and wool
socks from the thrift store and nock off another $35 so you are down to $155.

For shelter, lots of options. maybe a tarptent style beast, maybe shared with another
scout, or maybe a hennesey hammock, or six moon designs wild oasis - lets' say between $80 and $175 bucks. You can get more creative here to save money of course.

So that's $500 for the "cadilac" end with a hennesey and gear that'll last, or $235
for the cheaper stuff with 80 bucks toward a share of a shared shelter or he/she learns to tarp it. - if the troop has shared tents they may not need that.

What does the kid need to learn?
1) how to use the alky stove, and cook and eat FBC style.
2) How to use their shelter, whatever it is
3) how to hike in socks/clothes that can get moist, and put on dry ones to sleep in at night, change back next day when moving.
4) how to use aquamira/pristine for water.
5) How to put one foot in front of the other without excessive snivelling.

I mean come on folks. I see those kind of prices for just an overpriced heavy *backpack*,
nevermind what an Xbox and a couple of games costs.


Edited by phat (12/03/08 09:15 PM)

Top
#105999 - 12/03/08 08:17 PM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: phat]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods

Good list Phat! But for some kids this is still somewhat out of their budget. HOWEVER, that is what fundraisers are for (e.g. selling popcorn is the usual means of raising funds)! And gear can be built up over 1-2 years. Most of our Scouts don't start backpacking until they reach 1st Class which usually takes about 1 yr. Of course, living in Texas our opportunities to backpack are limited. Most outings are camping with some hiking planned.

FWIW, my son hiked 70 miles at Philmont this past summer using a Jansport Scout external frame pack. Yes, it is heavier than others we have but he likes it and it fits and it's what he is comfortable with. He's had it for 3+ years now and it has expanded with him. It's bomb proof which also helps. We did modify it with better shoulder straps and hip belt from the Jansport Carson. Jansport Scouts can be picked up for around $60 on sale.
We were able to keep his pack weight to 24 lbs including crew gear (but without food and water) and he weighed around 138 lbs at 5'8".

You could swap out a the Petzl with a Rayovac $14 headlamp, the liner socks with cheap nylon dress socks $6, and the wool merino socks with Thorlo's ( I know, some people hate them) $16 (2 pair). So, there's about $50-$60 savings (using the Jansport rather than the Virga). I would also encourage new Scouts to borrow from older Scouts whenever possible. I have 3 packs that I typically loan out.

We've had the issue with kids being so skinny that the hipbelt won't fit. That's when I build up the belt with pieces of dense foam (e.g. blue foam padding) and duck tape.

Tango

Top
#106000 - 12/03/08 08:59 PM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: Tango61]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:


FWIW, my son hiked 70 miles at Philmont this past summer using a Jansport Scout external frame pack. Yes, it is heavier than others we have but he likes it and it fits and it's what he is comfortable with. He's had it for 3+ years now and it has expanded with him. It's bomb proof which also helps. We did modify it with better shoulder straps and hip belt from the Jansport Carson. Jansport Scouts can be picked up for around $60 on sale.
We were able to keep his pack weight to 24 lbs including crew gear (but without food and water) and he weighed around 138 lbs at 5'8".


Yeah, well I picked "name brand" (sic) options for the big three, just to prove a point - as I mentioned if you carefully pick the cheaper stuff (you really don't need the virga - a regular
wal-mart framless big bag does just *fine* on a kid *if it fits ok and you keep the weight low* ) and can be definately on the lower end of the price range I fully expect if you were careful with what's above and kept the pack frameless and under 2 pounds you'd be looking at a kid outfitted for the weekend with a litre of water and food in their pack for about 18-20 pounds or a bit less. Why? heck, it's pretty much what I carry and I do the same - and my clothes are a lot bigger! Of course they'd need a little instruction and practice first but that goes for the heavy stuff too!

I think you can definately keep kids on a serious budget for decent weekend backpacking
trips without blowing the bank, and that sticking to a lightweight (not ULTRALIGHT) sort of list helps keep it that way - becuse you just don't take so much useless or overbuilt or expensive crap.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top
#106001 - 12/04/08 02:00 AM Re: Heavy Packs [Re: phat]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I agree that cheap light stuff tends to be both cheap and light. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
You gotta look around for it sometimes, but its highly functional.

Top
#106002 - 12/04/08 10:38 AM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: phat]
hikerFedEx Offline


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 19
Loc: United States
IMHO (FOR ME and my style of hikes) just about any multi-function (GERBER, SOG, LEATHERMAN) tool, regardless of whether steel, stainless, aluminum, titanium or how tiny.

I have no equipment made with screws, I don't plan to scale fish, gut a deer, cut razor wire, or most other functions. they sound great - until you really think "When WOULD I have to turn a screw or remove a bolt, etc.?"

I LOVE them for home and work use. Very practical, strong, always handy, always prepared. Just not for SUL. It flies in the face of leave it home if you don't need it. (for me)

Top
#106003 - 12/04/08 01:49 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: hikerFedEx]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Quote:
IMHO (FOR ME and my style of hikes) just about any multi-function (GERBER, SOG, LEATHERMAN) tool, regardless of whether steel, stainless, aluminum, titanium or how tiny.

I have no equipment made with screws, I don't plan to scale fish, gut a deer, cut razor wire, or most other functions. they sound great - until you really think "When WOULD I have to turn a screw or remove a bolt, etc.?"

I LOVE them for home and work use. Very practical, strong, always handy, always prepared. Just not for SUL. It flies in the face of leave it home if you don't need it. (for me)
I gotta agree with you on that. For a small knife I carry one of these. It's cheap and light and handy. I wouldn't do any serious bushcraft with it, but it does have a nice locking blade...

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detai...D=1228427308337

Only paid $10 for it though. That makes it even better.

I carry a 1 pound hatchet in winter. Don't use it much, but its handy, and would be very handy if it got really cold. I don't have an extra pound of 800 fill down for my sleeping bag in case it hits -20F or -30F, but I do have 1 pound of long wool underwear and a 1 pound hatchet. I carry a few nails with it as it doubles as a hammer and a dozen small nails are more versatile than 3 or 4 tent pegs. Some cheap twine also, and some snare wire. Cheap twine is a good thing if you want to do some lashing for the fun of it and leave it behind. My regular tarp line is the same stuff I use for my shoelaces though. Most trips is doesn't get anywhere near -20F, but the hatchet is still fun to carry, and the long wool underwear make a good pillow. I might make a pillow case for them.

Am I way off topic or what?

Top
#106004 - 12/04/08 01:52 PM Re: Anti-Light - Flip side of heavy scout pack [Re: Heber]
chuck Offline
member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 83
Heber - dead on regarding scout packs. On the flip side, when I was outfitting my son earlier this year we focused on lightweight gear since I was confident he knew how to take care of it and protect it, the two biggest weight savers being the MB UL SS #2 and Warmlite 2R tent (someone usually tents with him).

However, when it came to his backpack and his cookset he HAD to have the very heavy official BSA cook set (12.5 oz - yikes!) instead of the lightweight gear I was pushing and he HAD to have the Yukon 2900 c.i. external frame pack instead of much lighter and better one's I suggested. The Yukon with all it's bells and whistles sure is fancy!

My son's selections won out for two very good reasons - he thinks they are cool and his friends have them! Being 12 he wants to fit in. He has plenty of time to replace pack and cookset once his trips get longer and weight starts becoming an issue.

Right now I want him to enjoy his gear, feel good about it, and just get out there and use it. With the bag and tent selection it still keeps his pack volume and weight to very reasonable level.

Chuck

Top
#106005 - 12/04/08 02:07 PM Re: Anti-Light - Flip side of heavy scout pack [Re: chuck]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
He is probably also big enough at 12 to carry it now. Light weight is really only a serious consideration for older folks that are overweight, like myself, and for younger folks like my daughter that are still only 50 pounds soaking wet. When I way 20 something I got a huge pack, and filled that sucker up, and didn't actually learn how crazy that was until I gained 20 years and 60 pounds and tried it again. Still alot of young scouts and guides at 12 that could do with much much lighter gear. The whole troop would be better off and could do more hiking and less car camping. They would also learn sooner what is right and what ain't, not in the moral sense, just in the true sense, which is a big part of what scouting is about. Why get it wrong when they should be learning it right?

Anyhow my daughter insists on make two hiking sticks now ever since she saw this fellow with them. I tried to explain, then I thought better of it. So I got this knife and now we are going to make ourselves some hiking staffs, and she can make two if that's really what she prefers.

Chuck, you are right that they need to be able to learn for themselves.
It really is the only way. We're mostly along just to share in the fun, as long as we still can. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Top
#106006 - 12/04/08 04:08 PM Re: Anti-Light Gear - The worst of the worst anyon [Re: JAK]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I also have to agree with loosing the multitool. I'm a big fan of Gerber and have a knife and multitool made by them. After not needing the multitool, I quit using it and just carried the knife. Now my gerber knife has seen better days so I replaced it with this.http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=product.detail&productid=3124
The blade is much thinner and one of the sharpest knives I have ever used. I slightly knicked the blade doing something stupid with it but was able to bring it back on my diamond hone. It's very close to the sharpness of a single edge razor blade. One downside. It doesn't have a clip so it has to be in a secure pocket. I like the blade so much that I plan to buy a similar frame knife.
And to bring up an old thread....... Very Very Sharp is Best! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

Top
Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Bivvy bag with wired peak
by Petro1234
Yesterday at 01:06 PM
How cheap can you go?
by EMT Dave
12/05/17 07:07 PM
compass, thermometer, baro/altimeter
by edfardos
11/19/17 09:54 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Just found out about UCO candles
by toddfw2003
11/30/17 08:41 AM
Hitting the eagle rock loop, Ark in 3 days
by toddfw2003
11/19/17 11:31 AM
Flamable fabrics?
by
11/13/17 09:31 PM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Plant based insulation...
by billstephenson
11/18/17 02:58 PM
lightest grommets to use
by toddfw2003
10/22/17 06:13 PM
avalibility of thin ti rod
by the-gr8t-waldo
01/26/17 04:45 PM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 26 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Woodland, ultralight, Wilderbabe, 1321132, guoguo
12466 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com