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#103419 - 09/20/08 07:39 PM Best tent for Pacific NW / BC
JasonA Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 4
Hi all,

Im a new member here to the forum, and I'm getting into backpacking pretty mch for the first time. I'm currently in the process of purchasing gear, and I'm really stuck on getting the most appropriate type of tent for the types of weather I will likely be encountering more often than not.

I'm doing hiking trips (and soon camping/backpacking) in the pacific NW (BC/Washington/Oregon) where it rains... alot. and we can have a fair amount of snow in the winter. While I don't necessarily expect to do all my camping at Christmas, I want a tent thats basically a good 4-season tent that is well designed to deal with wetness / condensation while also being good for summer use. But from some of the reviews I read, it seems I cant have one and also the other.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been leaning towards mountaineering tents, but is that overkill? I can't decide and dont have enough experience to make a good decision here. Can anyone chime in on this?

thanks!!

Top
#103420 - 09/20/08 08:06 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
Hi all,

I'm doing hiking trips (and soon camping/backpacking) in the pacific NW (BC/Washington/Oregon) where it rains... alot. and we can have a fair amount of snow in the winter. While I don't necessarily expect to do all my camping at Christmas, I want a tent thats basically a good 4-season tent that is well designed to deal with wetness / condensation while also being good for summer use. But from some of the reviews I read, it seems I cant have one and also the other.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been leaning towards mountaineering tents, but is that overkill? I can't decide and dont have enough experience to make a good decision here. Can anyone chime in on this?

thanks!!


Speaking from some experience in your neck of the woods - Your best tent is probably two. One for winter mountaineering and one for everything else. Most of the time I find the really good bomproof type tents that can take a snow load are a *lot* heavier than you need the rest of the year - and you will find yourself carrying an 8 pound tent for yourself all year when much of the time you could get away with sub-3. plus a lighter weight 3 season type tent will have better ventilation in the warmer (rainy) months.

Now having said that, I'd need a little more info to give you specific reccomendations (like
are you solo, or do you want a 2 person tent etc). Other than - stick to someone reputable - lots of times cheap is good at places like wal-mart - but tents are better bought from someplace that has made tents before.

I've used an MSR fury in heavy snow load with lots of success in winter. Also a bibler bombshelter (I don't own either, they belonged to freinds) as well as rental MEC tents. They were heavy as heck <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have a look at a couple of the manufacturers in the portal area of this site. good light
tents that I know work well in BC rain are things like Henry Shires Tarptent - or an SMD lunar solo for a solo tent. You also may want to consider something like a hammock.
hennesey makes nice ones or make your own. They also work well in BC, as long as there are trees that aren't so big you can't tie around them. So, you ask me? consider two
tents from the get go. something light and nice for most of the time, and think about the big tent when(if) you occasionally go out in winter. If you're actually in canada, MEC rents 4 season capable tents cheap. You might want to only rent the monster bomproof one for the occasional winter trip.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#103421 - 09/20/08 09:58 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: phat]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
Yeah, mountaineering tents are waaaay overkill.

I've spent at least 20 weeks camping in mountains of Washington State over a period of years, almost all in the summer.

Mostly, the weather has been stellar. Calm and clear.

In alpine swampy areas, the bugs have often been rather bad, and I've been too timid to use an unnetted tarp shelter, opting mostly instead for a miserably small bivvy tent. I keep swearing next time I'll leave it home in favor of a tarp.

As I remember, have only spent three winter nights in Washington mountains. Checking the weather forecast would enable avoidance of monster dumps, and therefore any need for some kind of canvass citadel, assuming garden-variety trips.

Interior ranges of B.C., are a somewhat different story, but I'd never want mountaineering tent there in summer. They're for really, really bad weather, really expensive and heavy.

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#103422 - 09/20/08 10:06 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: phat]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
The decision you need to make is are you really going to be out in winter, as in snow? If so and you can't, as Phat suggested, have a dedicated winter tent, then your choice should be, in my opinion, based on the worst weather you may encounter.

The problem with winter tents is that they are heavy, compared to Tarptents or something similar. There are a few lightweight single wall mountaineering tents, but many of them aren't really designed for rain (they will eventually wet out because of the fabric).

I have a 2 person winter tent. It is a heavy, five pole, two wall tent that would be fine in other seasons because it has two doors and a mesh panel in the roof for ventilation, but again, it is heavy-about 8 lbs. It has a big vestibule and a little one at the back, so it would be fine in rain as well.

If it weighed half as much, it would be just about perfect, but since it doesn't, weight is a big consideration. I tow it on a sled with my other gear, so that makes it a bit easier.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#103423 - 09/21/08 03:30 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I have no familiarity at all with the area you're hiking in, so I may be way, way off base here. However, based on what others have said, I have to wonder if the MSR Hubba series tents might work for you. As far as the idea of 2 tents, you could contact them to see if you could buy a Hubba HP from a retailer, then order a "replacement" Hubba inner tent. I think the same fly works with both, and you'd get the advantage of the all-mesh interior in summer. The pair might cost you about what a 4-season tent would. Just a thought - no idea if it's workable.

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#103424 - 09/21/08 07:07 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
JasonA Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 4
Hi all,

thanks for the input, very helpful! After reading your posts, I think what Phat suggested might ultimately be the way to go. I guess I sorta knew it in my heart already, I was just in denial about it. The reality is i won't be camping often in the snow often, but I wanted to be sure I didn't overlook something that the experienced guys knew about.

I find myself enjoying solo trips, or with my girlfriend but I generally don't go in larger groups. So I was thinking of planning for little load sharing. Like JohnDavid said, I too am reluctant to go exposed or in a tarp tent - bug literally feed off me and I need refuge beyond constantly applying jungle juice <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The Hubba Glenn mentioned looks like not a bad option, but it really seems to small if Im stuck inside it for any length of time (not sleeping). I think i might go crazy. But the HubbaHubba might be spacious enough, although if two people are inside it we still might drive each other crazy hehe.

http://www.msrgear.com/tents/hubbahubbahp.asp

So, I've been particular to Mountain Hardware stuff, because they seem to offer some really nice stuff at weights that I think aren't excessive. One I've been specifically eyeballing is the MH
Skyledge 2.1 .

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product....p;viewAll=False

Do you these this would work well for long exposures to rainfall? I prefer dome tents and especially ones with a separate rain fly. Would there be other options in this sort of vein you might consider if not these?

I guess I should have mentioned earlier, cost is not an issue for me. If my experience with hiking gear is any indicator, cheap rarely turns out to be a good decision, so if i gotta bite bullet to buy something expensive that will work well and last, then thats always my first choice.

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#103425 - 09/21/08 08:06 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
In my opinion, it is more important to select a lightweight tent that is well designed and easy to set up. At this point, don't think about camping in snow. Spend a couple of years camping the other three seasons before deciding to camp in winter. A good three-season tent can take a light snowfall that might catch you in spring or fall.

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#103426 - 09/21/08 08:17 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
You cover a large territory with "Pacific NW and BC". Climate ranges from rainforest to desert! If one has camped many weeks in the summer in the PNW and had nothing but "stellar weather" you have not been in the PNW I grew up in! Rain and rain+wind are two different animals!

The stats show that in eastern BC, you will get rain 1 out of every 3 days you are out, during the "good" season. Coastal BC, maybe more (I plead ignorance on coastal BC). Cascades - pretty nice in a narrow window of summer in some years. Coastal mountains generally can get drizzles for days; Rocky Mtn BC get that PLUS thunderstorms (read: wind). Olympic Penninsula- drizzle forever!

Another issue is altitude - are you planning on below timber or above timber camping. I do not agree that mountaineering tents are overkill - they are exactly what is needed for mountaineering conditions! Some of us "backpack" in mountaineering environments. Wind is a big issue here.

Get a basic light tent for 3-season, non-mountainering conditions. You need to get this kind of experience anyway before you venture into more hostile envivonments. You should easily be able to find a suitable tent under about 4.5 pounds. If you want to do winter or higher altitudes, save your pennies (or put it on your Christmas wish list) and buy a specific tent for this. I agree with others that there is no one tent that does it all.

My biggest criticism of tents for rainy conditions is the entry. Most, particularly the side entry ones, let rain inside when you go in and out. The tunnel type tents with an extended porch coverage seem to work better for me.

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#103427 - 09/21/08 08:25 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: johndavid]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
I live in Washington state, and what JohnDavid says seems just right on to me. I tried the hammock route, but I like to hike in places that can get to fairly high elevation, hence I can't count on summer nights all being warm, and with the hammock approach it's tough to stay weight neutral in that case. I'm not an ultra-lighter, but I do generally keep my base weight down into the teens.

For solo trips and now most recently for trips with my wife I'm using Henry Shires tents, www.tarptent.com. If you get (as can happen too often) an extended period of rain or drizzle or just heavy mist and overall wet, these are a bit of a pain --- in these cases I might wake up in the night and towel off the *inside* of the tent with a little pack towel, and both inside and outside of any single wall tent can be wet in the morning in such a situation. Not a killer, but less comfortable overall than a double wall tent.

If I knew I would have extended wet in the forecast --- and decided to go out anyway (!) --- a double wall tent (like hubba or hubbahubba) would be preferable, but I expect I'll continue with single walls and just deal with it. Very much a variable individual preference depending on what you want to optimize: in-camp comfort or weight in the backpack.


Brian Lewis, http://postholer.com/brianle

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#103428 - 09/21/08 09:39 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
My best PNW tent, when I lived there, was a single-wall goretex tunnel-style tent--when they were still legal to sell. Now, I'd probably get a lightweight double-wall tent, unless somebody comes out with an eVent tent. That would be my ideal PNW shelter.

Quote:
Hi all,

Im a new member here to the forum, and I'm getting into backpacking pretty mch for the first time. I'm currently in the process of purchasing gear, and I'm really stuck on getting the most appropriate type of tent for the types of weather I will likely be encountering more often than not.

I'm doing hiking trips (and soon camping/backpacking) in the pacific NW (BC/Washington/Oregon) where it rains... alot. and we can have a fair amount of snow in the winter. While I don't necessarily expect to do all my camping at Christmas, I want a tent thats basically a good 4-season tent that is well designed to deal with wetness / condensation while also being good for summer use. But from some of the reviews I read, it seems I cant have one and also the other.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been leaning towards mountaineering tents, but is that overkill? I can't decide and dont have enough experience to make a good decision here. Can anyone chime in on this?

thanks!!
_________________________
--Rick

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#103429 - 09/21/08 09:41 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: BrianLe]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
I agree with Mockturtle: go with a lightweight tent rather than a winter tent. You might find it works in winter as well. Some do. I've been amused several times to wake up in the morning after a heavy snow fall to find my summer tent standing surrounded by top-dollar winter tents in various advanced stages of collapse, their inmates groaning and cussing as they dug out of the snow.

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#103430 - 09/21/08 11:00 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: Spock]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I don't mean to sound like your mother, but before you decide that winter camping in a tarptent or something similar is no big deal, I suggest reading these threads.
This one has pics from a couple of trips, including one of mine with JimShaw and Steve (BMISF).winter thread

This one is about a trip with more serious consequences. If not for a massive rescue effort, some of these people would most likely be dead.
pnw winter rescue story

My point is this: sure you might be able to get away with a tarp or light tent under ideal winter conditions. I've done several trips to Yosemite in those kind of conditions-sunny and warm. But, if things go bad, unless you have the right skills and the right gear, you will find yourself in serious trouble. I don't claim to be an expert on winter camping, but there are several members here who know a lot more than I do and have been in lots worse conditions. What I do know is that I don't want to find myself out in a storm without adequate shelter.

Also, in winter, i.e. snow, I wouldn't go anywhere without a shovel and either skis or snowshoes. That's what helped get those PNW hikers in trouble-no snowshoes.

ps.Don't fall for some of the bs by those PNW hikers who claim their near catastrophe was just an "adventure." Their ignorance and stupidity put a lot of SAR people, including flight crews, at risk to find these morons.


Edited by TomD (09/21/08 07:17 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#103431 - 09/21/08 05:01 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
You really need to go to a good outdoor gear shop (or a few shops), set up a few tents, and get inside 'em. I have to stand up for the Hubba Hubba. I think if you were to get inside it, you would see how spacious it really is. The Hubba as well. I've spent several nights and some pretty rainy days inside both without any issues (your comments about the Hubba series being less-than-roomy shows me you haven't done this yet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />).

Seriously, the only way you are to know what will work best, and for you to be the most satisfied with your purchase is some personal, hands-on experience. Most good outdoor gear shops would love to give you this kind of service (there are some excellent gear shops in your part of the country). By asking folks on this forum, you're going to get some personal opinions, some very good advice, but in the end it's really up to you to decide and in the end you're going to have to live with your choice.

On a side not, buying it from a store that allows returns could be beneficial, but I hate doing this. I feel like a cheat, like I haven't made the true effort to find what I need. Shops, no matter what shop (REI included) is left with a used tent and someone has to deal with it. It's far better as a consumer to make the right decision the first time, if the opportunity to research that item before hand has been available (there are always exceptions to this rule). There are some items that you can only buy online, and in this case you're justified in returning it if it doesn't work out. It really bothers me when people take total advantage of the return policies of the store. I think it is a self-serving behavior that really hurts the bottom line of these shops (the shops, both internet and brick and mortar, know if you're one of these people, I assure you). Why do they do it? Because, in order to compete with online stores and other big-box stores, they are forced to. Please don't perpetuate this type of consumer behavior! Ok, I'll get off my soap-box...

One caution I would warn you against is looking at pictures of tents and relying on a companies reputation. Although this should help start the search, you shouldn't end it here. There are some amazing tents available and to cheat yourself by going with a trendy brand because one of your buddies thinks it's cool could cause you grief in the long run. I'm just saying this because it's happened to me...

Good luck in your search!
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

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#103432 - 09/21/08 05:03 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
My wife and I have used the Hubba Hubba for car camping, and find it just about right - not spacious, but not crowded, either. Depending on the amount of weight you're willing to carry, it's not a hatefully heavy solo tent, either.

Also, I agree with jasonlivy about the Hubba being roomier than it looks. I've always found I had plenty of room in it for me and my gear. However, depending on how much gear you find necessary, your conclusion may be different. I don't carry much, and it all works together well: my empty Vapor Trail pack lays very flat, in the foot end of the tent, and its cushy backpad works as a pad extender for my 3/4 length Thermarest; the somewhat narrow sidewalls of the tent keep everything in line and under me. My trail shoes go in the head end of the tent, with my Dromlite bag (inflated with air) on top of them as a pillow. (If I have spare clothing, like a down jacket, I'll leave the Dromlite uninflated and put the clothing in a stuff sack to use as a pillow.) There's still enough room around the shoes and in the neat little tent pocket for my water bottle, first aid kit, map case, toiletry kit, rain gear (which can also stay inside the pack if I choose), and water filter. My stove and kettle stay outside the door, inside the vestibule but not blocking entry or exit. My food usually hangs in a tree or occasionally stays in the vestibule (I'm not in bear country.) And I've still got room to sit up, read, roll easily from side to side, and so forth.


Edited by Glenn (09/21/08 05:16 PM)

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#103433 - 09/21/08 05:33 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
So, I've been particular to Mountain Hardware stuff, because they seem to offer some really nice stuff at weights that I think aren't excessive. One I've been specifically eyeballing is the MH
Skyledge 2.1...I guess I should have mentioned earlier, cost is not an issue for me. If my experience with hiking gear is any indicator, cheap rarely turns out to be a good decision, so if i gotta bite bullet to buy something expensive that will work well and last, then thats always my first choice.


I checked out the Mountain Hardware Skyledge Tent vs. the Hubba Hubba HP and what I found was that the Hubba Hubba HP is wider (50"vs 46" and 40" in the back of the tent), but a little shorter (84"vs 88"). Therefore you will feel more cramped in the MH tent that the MSR from what I can see (unless you're tall). The other issues I see with it is the 3,000mm coated floor (not very waterproof) and the full mesh canopy. It's also heavier (4.28lbs vs. 3.69lbs). You mentioned you might like to use it in the winter and I think any full mesh tent (including the Hubba Hubba) is a bad winter choice.

I think you should give a serious look to the Hubba Hubba HP. Cascade Designs designed this tent specifically for limited 4 season use, but one that also excels in the hot, humid days of summer. It is lighter than the standard Hubba Hubba (less than 4lbs), will be warmer and more versatile than a full mesh canopy tent in the winter, and the material breaths exceptionally well for summer use. It has a super-waterproof floor (10,000mm coating), all the guy-out points are reinforced with welded patches in case there is significant wind, and you won't get the cold drafts blowing in through like you would with mesh. It can be pitched very taught when the fly is on which is important for really bad weather (that taughter the pitch, the better it can withstand wind), and when the fly is on, it has excellent ventilation.

My own personal experience had me near the summit of Cotopaxi (19,200 ft volcano in Equador) using the Hubba HP. We experienced 30-50 mph winds and the temps got down to about 0 degrees F. The tent did exceptionally well, withstanding all of the wind bursts and blowing dirt. I didn't need to guy it out, but if the wind was stronger, say 60+mph, I would have been able to take advantage of the reinforced fly, something that would have made me nervous if the fly wasn't reinforced. I was amazed this tent did what it did at around 2 1/2 lbs! I had plenty of room to change into my mountaineering clothes, sit up in my camp chair while weathering a storm, and stayed completely dry. One of the best features, but often overlooked, is it's entry way (both on the Hubba HP and Hubba Hubba HP). Because the tent's ceiling extends well over both doors, you won't have rain and snow dripping inside, even though it is a side-entry door. This is something I would have you pay attention to as you're looking at tents...

The only 4-season issue is snow-load capability which most very lightweight tents suffer from. The other disadvantage is the price at $450. However, because this tent does so much (roomy, light, two door/vestibules, etc), it might be what your looking for.

Just some thoughts...
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

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#103434 - 09/21/08 05:57 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: Rick_D]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Now, I'd probably get a lightweight double-wall tent, unless somebody comes out with an eVent tent.
Rab (made in England) makes a single wall, eVent tent that's available in the states. I checked it out at the OR Show and was very impressed. It's called the Rab Summit Extreme and the price at around $499 seemed very reasonable as well. It didn't look particularly roomy however...the walls seemed to really angle in (no livable space) and the floor looked just big enough for two sleeping bags. It appeared to be a true mountaineering, peak assault-type tent.
_________________________
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#103435 - 09/21/08 08:04 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: jasonlivy]
CWF Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 266
You might also want to consider the Golite Utopia 2+ with the floor. Condensation management is good with the three mesh backed vents and the weight is 3lbs, 10 oz all is for a whopping 43 sq feet of space. Nice freestander and you have the option of leaving the floor behind in snowy conditions for a savings of a pound.

Alternatively, for more 3 -season use, the Integral Designs Sildome with Bug Dome puts you at just over 3 pounds for 40 sq feet (the sildome alone is larger than this). Modular approach but not freestanding. Palatial for one!!

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#103436 - 09/21/08 08:50 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: CWF]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
From the Rab website:
Quote:
This shelter is not designed for UK backpacking in wet conditions
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#103437 - 09/21/08 10:17 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: TomD]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
I don't know how I missed that... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

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#103438 - 09/22/08 07:18 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: TomD]
CWF Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 266
Quote:
From the Rab website:
Quote:
This shelter is not designed for UK backpacking in wet conditions



I wonder why that is? Because of the single walled nature of just the inherent design of the tent - i.e. no vestibule, etc?

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#103439 - 09/22/08 06:07 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: CWF]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Quote:
Quote:
From the Rab website:
Quote:
This shelter is not designed for UK backpacking in wet conditions



I wonder why that is? Because of the single walled nature of just the inherent design of the tent - i.e. no vestibule, etc?

EVent's website promotes it as a waterproof fabric so I am wondering that myself.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#103440 - 09/22/08 06:13 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: CWF]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
Look at this:

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/nighthaven.html

It's made by a PNW company, has insect protection, is quite spacious for a 2-person tent, and weighs well under three pounds.

BTW, most of my time camping in PNW has been while mountaineering. The comment that it rains in the Olympics a lot is quite incorrect during the summer season. The climate is for all practical purposes the same as in the Cascades.

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#103441 - 09/22/08 07:36 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: johndavid]
JasonA Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 4
wow guys, I so appreciate all the comments! I've got alot to think about but thanks for elaborating on options and your experiences, its a massive help. This site is golden and I look forward to hangin out here more <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Cheers,
Jason

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#103442 - 09/22/08 10:06 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: CWF]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
This "RAB" eVent tent has the same stupid door my 1970's Jansport Half Dome had. When opened in a rain or snowstorm the precipitation comes RIGHT in on the floor. What a dumb design. I hated that tent. Also it's not very stable in a strong wind.

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#103443 - 09/23/08 11:10 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: TomD]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Here's the explanation regarding using the Rab tent in the UK-

------------------------------------------------------------
Tom

The Summit extreme is a single skin tent and due to the UK climate you would find that you get a build of condensation, although I have used one in Wales on frosty night and it worked ok.

The outside temperature needs to be colder than inside the tent for the fabric to breathe, hence the reason why we have included the quote on the website as people were using them for UK camping. Had it been ok for this then it would have been advertised as a tent.

It’s designed as a mountain shelter where in the higher altitudes you would encounter snow rather than rain, which is a different kind of wetness, and where the air temperature is permanently cold.

If used for the purpose intended then it is a great piece of kit, however if you are thinking of using it for UK camping then I would strongly suggest that you look at other alternatives.
Regards,
Mark Wilson
Customer Services Manager
Equip Outdoor Technologies Ltd.
Wimsey Way
Somercotes
Alfreton
Derbyshire
DE55 4LS
-------------------------------------------------------
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#103444 - 09/23/08 12:48 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: TomD]
CWF Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 266
Thanks Tom - you da man!

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#103445 - 09/24/08 09:27 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: TomD]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Veddy interesting.

I used my gen1 goretex tent in the PNW regularly in all sorts of conditions with a lot of success. The best tip regarding cold rainy weather came from the owner of Early Winters, who made the tent: When condensation forms inside, close the doors (the natural reaction is to open them, increasing airflow). Closing them raised the temp gradient and helped drive the moisture through the fabric. This sounds similar to what the RAB fellow is saying.

IIUC gen1 goretex lacks the PU coating all subsequent versions have and simply worked better (until it gets dirty and wets through). My understanding is that eVent has similar properties. Since GE bought the company, eVent tents have disappeared in America, however.
_________________________
--Rick

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#103446 - 09/24/08 10:23 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: Rick_D]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I'd also go the 2-tent route. It seems ridiculous to carry a heavy winter tent for the 7-8 months of the year when you don't need it.

For a lightweight 3-season tent, I'd also go with a Tarptent, either Squall 2 or Double Rainbow. Despite their name, tarptents are single-wall tents, not tarps--most have floors and netting and are fully bug-proof. Get your SO in on the decision, since you need to keep her happy. I suspect you'll both be happier each having your own door and porch with the Double Rainbow. Either of these tents will do fine for 3-season use. They are lightweight--lighter than any double-wall tent. Henry Shires' tents have sufficient ventilation that severe condensation inside is a rare event. I've had far more condensation inside a double-wall tent (Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight--big puddles on the floor due to condensation from the fly leaking through the inner tent) than with my Tarptent Squall 2. It's adequate ventilation, not the number of walls, that prevents or reduces condensation. And Tarptents are more spacious than the lighter double-wall tents; the latter reduce weight by severely reducing the inside space. You and your SO will appreciate the roominess.

IMPORTANT: Tarptents are most definitely not winter tents. They'll repel a couple inches of snow, but not a couple of feet of the heavy wet stuff we normally get in a PNW winter storm. Please read and heed TomD's post!

Since you probably won't be winter camping much for a while, I'd suggest renting (or borrowing) a 4-season tent in winter. I definitely wouldn't buy a winter tent until you've become experienced at winter camping and decide that you really like it. I tried it a few times and decided that I hated it, mostly because of our long hours of winter darkness up here north of the 45th parallel. Your Mileage, of course, May (and probably will) Vary. If you do decide that you want to go all out for winter camping, your experiences in a rented or borrowed 4-season tent will help you decide what kind of tent you want for the winter. At that point you can pick up a used winter tent that hopefully won't break your budget.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#103447 - 09/25/08 02:50 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
Mattress Offline
member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 109
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
My only contribution as a regular west coast hiker is to consider free-standing. I've found on beaches especially it's very hard to get a good pitch with non-freestanding designs. I have a bunch of tents, and by far my favorite for wet coastal is the Tarptent Rainbow (single or double). I'm ok with condensation in the tent and other such limitations of a single wall though, so this recommendation should be tempered by your experience and ability/willingness to stay dry in a wet environment.
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#103448 - 09/25/08 04:32 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: OregonMouse]
CWF Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 266
Quote:
It seems ridiculous to carry a heavy winter tent for the 7-8 months of the year when you don't need it.


That IS the length of my winter <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#103449 - 09/25/08 05:25 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: CWF]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Here in NW Oregon, too--in fact, it's more like 9 months--but that's the rainy season. Will you really be doing extensive camping in heavy snow more than 4-5 months of the year? Tarptents do just fine keeping the rain off. You need the heavy winter tent only when you are in a place/time where it's possible to get heavy snow or consistently below-freezing conditions (mountains or east of the Cascades). You stated that you're mostly concerned about our NW winter rains. If you're going to do lots of snow camping, that's a different story.

I'd still suggest renting a winter tent until you have more experience snow-camping. I also strongly recommend going with experienced folks, preferably in an instructional setting, before you try to snow-camp on your own. There are lots of dangers like avalanches that you need to learn about.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#103450 - 09/26/08 11:01 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: OregonMouse]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
Regarding TomD's comment:

"My point is this: sure you might be able to get away with a tarp or light tent under ideal winter conditions.,,. But, if things go bad, unless you have the right skills and the right gear". etc.

Here's a newspaper article about crossing the Juneau Icecap in first week of April with Megamid:
http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/051001/Out_Icefield.html

Last weekend of February, a highly routine trip, using Megamid as a matter of course, in coastal mountains near Vancouver (See page 14).

http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/calgary/chinook/Chinook-Apr01.pdf

Etc. ..There are plenty of other examples. The founder of Mountainsmith packs later developed Kifaru tipis essentially as winter shelters in Colorado. (They are in effect, over-sized Megamids). The book "AMC Guide To Winter Camping" (1991) had extensive recommendations regarding similar tents. Book had a northern New England focus. Etc......

The idea that a properly designed, fully enclosed tarp shelter is suitable for winter conditions is simply NOT far out, unusual, dangerous, or uninformed. Rather, it's pretty common.

Yeah, a winter mountaineering tent with a fly is warmer (assuming you're not going delux with a woodstove). If snow is wind-packed to the point of solid ice (plausible only in exposed places well above treeline in winter) then yeah, battening down the edges of a Megamid (or similar) with chopped ice would be a trick. Otherwise, snow banking seals them right up.

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#103451 - 09/26/08 11:51 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: johndavid]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
There was a "Nature" program a few years ago about winter in Yellowstone, in which the naturalist was sleeping in a bivy under a tarp. Of course he was highly experienced and of course he had a TV crew with him (no mention of where the TV crew slept!). I certainly wouldn't recommend this type of gear to a beginner.

There are a number of floorless pyramid tents made by Mountain Laurel Designs, Oware, GoLite, Black Diamond and others, which will shed heavy snow and are a lot lighter than your standard 4-season tent. With a mosquito netting "nest" added, they are suitable for summer, too, although the tent/netting combo is definitely heavier than most tarptents.

The point here is that the OP has admitted his inexperience. If he's going out in winter, he needs to learn how to cope with all the hazards he will encounter and gain experience in the company of experienced winter backpackers. To start with, he'd probably feel more comfortable and possibly save money by renting or borrowing a winter tent. Once he's had winter camping experience and decides that he likes it, that's the time to consider investing and possibly going to a pyramidal tent.


Edited by OregonMouse (09/26/08 11:54 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#103452 - 09/28/08 09:19 AM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: OregonMouse]
JasonA Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 4
yeah its true, I have done little back country backpacking, so as such I'm really very unfamilar with the most effective types of gear. I will definitely take your advice and hold off on the winter camping until I've done more 3 season. I think the Sierra Club does a course (WTC) on back country backpacking, which includes some winter camping training - might give that a go next year.

but anyways the big point for me was to get a tent that could withstand heavy rains over three+ plus days without leaving me drenched inside. Anyone living in the PNW knows what I'm talking about. Oregon's a classic for lots and lots of rain, while Washington and BC can get that plus occasional heavy snowfall in Winter. I assumed that meant a mountaineering tent which is why i've been considering the 4-season. So... I guess I don't really want to bank on "light" rains.. I suspect many if not all three season tents do well in this area. The big question for me is, if not a mountaineering tent, what tent(s) would be most appropriate. In short, I'd rather get something thats well reviewed for these situations, as opposed to what I can barely get away with.

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#103453 - 09/28/08 05:15 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

A plastic sheet - rigged properly, will keep you dry in the most torrential of rains. seriously.

If you are used to your tent leaking if it's not a "mountaineering tent" then your tent you are thinking of was probably a cheap POS bought at wal-mart or crappy tire, and then not waterproofed or seam sealed.

look back at some of the suggestions made here for 3 season use, and consider one of the
reputable ones. I've got plenty of tents - and tarps - that are not "mountaineering" stuff that have kept me dry in multi-day monsoon type downpours - as long as I did my part (seam sealed before taking them out the first time, didn't pitch them in a bowl that would fill up with water, etc.).. Keeping dry really isn't rocket science.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#103454 - 10/03/08 05:25 PM Re: Best tent for Pacific NW / BC [Re: JasonA]
scottyb Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas Hill Country
Quote:
So, I've been particular to Mountain Hardware stuff, because they seem to offer some really nice stuff at weights that I think aren't excessive. One I've been specifically eyeballing is the MH
Skyledge 2.1 .


BTW, REI has this tent on sale starting 9/3. If I remember correctly it is $249, down from $325.


Edited by scottyb (10/04/08 01:21 PM)
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