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#100991 - 09/07/08 05:48 PM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: rootball]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
O.k. All you law enforcement people out there in hiking land. What are the laws on carrying a rifle? Not that I would carry one Bpacking. And I don't deer hunt anymore. And another point. Doesn't the constitution state that it is our right to keep and bear arms? I think when this was written it wasn't for home protection. It was to defend our country against a rouge government. I believe that should still be the case. But the law got twisted around in the last 200 years. It P,s me off that the government should be able to control what you do and think. If and when I need to carry, I will permit or no. If I use it for the wrong purpose, then I deserve to go to jail. How many guns are on the streets? How many registered guns are stolen from law abiding people that are stupid enough to keep them in their vehicles, with S&W stickers on their back windows. I could go on. We have a local cop in this city that is going to jail for getting in an altercation with a DJ at a local bar. The officer killed the DJ. He was licensed and paid to carry. It's not whether you have a permit that decides who is good or not. It's the morals of the person.

Have a NICE DAY>..........

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#100992 - 09/10/08 08:39 AM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: rootball]
bigsac Offline
member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 83
Loc: Sacramento CA
This doesn't have to do with the specific gun in question, but I though you all might be interested in a gun story from my past. Many years ago a friend of mine was showing me some slides of a backpacking trip he took on Kodiak Island in Alaska. His dad was a civilian employee at the Navy base there. I noticed on one slide that he was carrying a huge pistol in a waist holster. He later showed it to me at his house and it was a Desert Eagle 44 magnum made in Israel, the biggest hand gun I have ever seen. He explained that it was common for the locals on Kodiak Island to carry such a weapon while backpacking for protection from the enormous Grizzly bears that live there. My friend was a big strong horse and apparently didn't mind carrying the weight of this huge gun. He said that anything smaller wouldn't stop a charging Grizzly. And the designated campsite he stayed at there was completely enclosed on all sides, even the top--kind of a reverse zoo situation. This was over twenty years ago, so I don't know if this is still going on up there, but I though some of you might find it interesting.

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#100993 - 09/10/08 12:40 PM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: bigsac]
SloHiker Offline
member

Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 46
Loc: NC
My response is off-topic as well, but there's much to be said about heeding what the "locals" do sometimes ..... your friend exercised good common sense.

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#100994 - 09/19/08 10:52 AM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: SloHiker]
CCH Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Colorado
Just chirping in with another vote for the Safepacker. Might even be debatable as to whether it is really carrying concealed by point of law and something to look into as it is really a flap style holster designed to carry the gun and extra ammo. I'd find that out beforehand in your state before carrying in one without a concealed carry permit. Flap style holsters such as the Bianchi 84 entirely cover the gun so a case might be made. I wouldn't want to try to make it out on the trail with Mr. LEO though.

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#100995 - 10/24/08 08:09 PM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: rootball]
randyg45 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 3
Back when the earth was young I was an investigator for the 82nd Abn Div MP Co.
I briefly served on the Atlanta Ga PD, I've done a little bounty hunting, and I was for several years the most active (probably, anyway) NRA Certified Handgun Instructor in WV. I grew up hunting; my first weeklong solo backpacking trip involved both a spinning rod and a Ruger 10/22. I've hiked from Jackson, Wy to Lander Wy alone, unsupported and without benefit of resupply. My eldest daughter outshot a sailor home on leave when she was 10. With a .45. I can go on. We all have to find what works for us; but I have some strong personal opinions on guns and backpacking and backpacking with guns.
.32 ACP is the second-most useless cartridge I know of. Forget kinetic energy (knockdown). Look at penetration. A.22 SHORT has better penetration. .32 ACP normally will not penetrate the skull from the front but slides along the outside of the skull. Ditto the heart. It can be stopped cold by belt buckles, books... probably hiking poles. Even given the psychological stopping power a gun has, I would rather have a KaBar than a .25, and it's certainly no better than a 50-50 proposition, in my opinion, .32 ACP vs Kabar.
Not to mention wild animals. .357 or .45 vs black bear? Oh, hell yeah. Either one will do the job nicely, given relatively good shot placement. I doubt even my ability to hit some other animals- coyotes, mountain lions, etc- in a fight, with a handgun, though; and I'm way better than most (I've won literally hundreds of local matches, a couple state titles, and one regional shoot). Gizzly vs. 44? Dream on. Maybe a .454 Casull in expert hands, or a .480. MAYBE. But there's something far more effective.
Oleo resin capsicum. Bear spray. It's effective on anything with eyeballs. You spray 'em, they go blind. Chipmunks to crackheads, instant nighttime. And its worse for predators, really, because many of them get at least as much info from their nose as from their eyes, and it shuts down their olfactory glands also. Point and shoot.
There are two problems with the spray- all weapons have limitations. You should if possible watch wind direction if you use bear spray. Thats normally not a problem in what many people fear the most- the attack of a predatory black bear. He will attack, usually, from downwind. The other problem is enclosed spaces. Which is why, in bear country, esp alone, I try to sleep in the open on the bare ground. I'll pitch a tarp in case it starts raining, and I have a bugnet deal if I have to use it. But never- never- all enclose in some single-wall tent or such taht have multiple layers of cloth and zippers between me and whats trying to kill me. I want to be able to fight back. I have adhesive-backed velcro on my bear spray. When I go to sleep I wrap an ace bandage around my chest, over any clothes I'm wearing to bed. Next a 10" strip of double-sided velcro goes under/around the ace bandage. Instant "holster". It may sound uncomfortable, but it really isn't unless you sleep on your stomach, which I never do.
But there are times I want a gun, too; especially hitching back to my car. I carry a NAA Black Widow in .22 Magnum. The cartridge has amazing flexibility, as much stopping power as a .38 Special, and better penetration (with solid copper rounds). I carry snake shot on the trail, usually, and <ahem> poach the occasional grouse, rabbit, and snake. I carry hollowpoints hitching, with the gun secured to a sturdy necklace, barrel up, under my shirt (the little SA revolver has some utterly unique characteristics that make this a safe carry imo). Finally, I sleep with solids in it, because... well, just because I do, I guess <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It weighs less than 9 oz and can safely carry 5 rounds. You can find it here.

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#100996 - 10/27/08 07:46 PM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: randyg45]
Jayhat Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 20
Loc: Yakima, WA USA
Okay let me first say I carry a Glock 19 9mm with 147 grain hollow points. I do have a WA state Concealed Pistol Permit. I usually just throw it in the top pocket of my pack....

Now onto the law reguarding concealed carry...

It is different for every state so look in your state codes. According to the Revised Code of Washington;
______________________________________________________
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a [color:"red"]a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.[/color]

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
_____________________________________________
Now Here is the exception to the code:
_____________________________________________

RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

(1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

(2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

(3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

(5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

[color:"red"] (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;[/color]

(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

(10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

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#100997 - 10/28/08 03:34 PM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: Jayhat]
randyg45 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 3
Looks to me as though that law should be a model to other states. Thanks.

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#100998 - 11/04/08 07:59 PM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: chaz]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
I'm with you on that Chaz. Lots of good informative posts, and no trash talking brands. It's about time, and to think of all the threads in the past that were so anti-gun and hostile to carrying in the backcountry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> If there's a reason and you have the proper training it's your God given right to do so within the means of the law. Oh, and don't forget to pick up yer brass <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#100999 - 11/05/08 09:50 AM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: Jayhat]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
Jayhat is your badge from the RR's?

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#101000 - 11/06/08 04:51 AM Re: Beretta Tomcat 32 ACP [Re: Earthling]
scottyb Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas Hill Country
In Texas, HB 1815 was passed and went into effect on 9/1/07. It clarifies a previous law, where you can carry a concealed weapon in your car without a liscense. It has to be concealed. You have to legally own the gun and the car, cannot be engaging in a criminal act, and cannot be a member of a street gang.

When the law was passed, news agencies reported that, if pulled over by an officer, disclosure of the weapon should be made immediately. However, the law does not mention this. I polled my cousin who is a state trooper and she disagreed and said she would prefer that it remained concealed. This is just the opinion of one law enforcement officer, which I am sure there are many.
_________________________
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.... Pericles (430 B.C)

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