Any body have one of these guns? I am considering downsizing my pack carry weapon from a snubnose S and W 357 - 24 ounces, loaded. The Tomcat weighs just under 15 ounces plus shells. I am aware that there is difference in knock down power, but with the 60 grain hollowpoints it would put a hurtin' at close range and 8 potential shots. Plus it fits in my Catalyst hipbelt pocket and the 357 will not.

I'm just wondering about the operation, jamming, corrosion- (I am considering blued steel), ect... thanks in advance

Searches turned up a kel-tec 32, but not the beretta. Keltec is lighter, but I am not interested in that gun.

Another question -- I would continue to carry the 357 because of its attrributes, but I cannot figure out a good way to carry it completely concealed and readily available. Can anyone suggest methods of carry. I use hipbelt and wear thin clothing. Short sleeves and shorts. I had considered some type of shoulder strap mounted camera case as an option.

To answer your question about the beretta, the tomcat is an excellant compact gun... ...depending on what you plan to use it for. I work in law enforcement and I've owned a tomcat for off duty/undercover carry purposes for about 10 years now. I am also a firearms instructor for my department. The 32 acp round is nothing more than a shorter, less powerful 9mm. 32 acp works great on paper and people at close range. If you're planing on using it for protection against animals, you're better off with the 357. Ballistically, it's a far superior round. In my opinion, if you're going to use a gun for protection against animals, I wouldn't buy anything smaller than a .45 or 44 mag. Now, these are usually heavy guns, (smith & wesson make five shot "airweight" snubbies that are VERY light and I think they make a 44 mag version) but anything less is just a waste of money and a false sense of security.

As for your second question, I like to use a shoulder harness for hiking for a couple of reasons: It is completely concealed under your shirt and under your arm. Because the harness is kind of worn like a backpack, it distributes the weight of the gun in a way so you don't even know you're carrying it. I don't really like carrying a gun on my hip while hiking because personally, it starts to pull my pants down on one side and gets really uncomfortable during the hike. Another way I like to carry is just to simply put my gun in a side pocket on my backpack. One that I can get to by reaching my arm back and unzipping the pocket without taking my pack off.

Anyway, hope this helps. Cheers!

... Oh, a few more things I forgot to mention. I have never had any kind of problem with my tomcat. It is a very user friendly and relatively "idiot-proof" gun. Since it is such a light and small semi-auto gun though, it can have a tendancy to "stovepipe" the expended shells once and a while, but that is a user error issue attributed to people who try and "control" rather than allowing the gun to recoil. (I could get into the science behind why that happens, but I don't want to bore anyone)

The tomcat is easy to clean and does not have alot of parts to it which increases it's reliability.

The second thing, don't buy a kel-tech. They are junk.

If you look around a bit, you can locate several pistols chambered for the 380 ACP that are in the weight range you are listing for the Tomcat. I have a FEG 380 that weighs about 15 oz unloaded. It has an alloy frame and a steel slide. It is stone reliable with the standard load of 90 grain JHP at 1100 fps. I think it has about the same muzzle energy as the standard factory load 38 Special. Might be worth a look.

Just my .02 Rootball .... I'd stay with the S&W revolver ... even if it were a .38 Special. I 've never been too impressed with the ..32 ACP cartridge when other alternatives were usable.

My experience with the Tomcat goes back to the early days following its release .... I bought a small number of them for my Narcotics folks as a "back-up/pocket gun" ..... reliability was OK if the gun was kept perfectly clean ..... unless they've changed the design, the Tomcat lacks a manual extractor. If the gun fails to fire or extract (for whatever reason) there's no remedy for clearing the round besides tilting open the flip-up barrel and removing the rounds manually. I personally would not rely on any weapon design that lack features such as a manual extractor .... slide lock devices (Walther PP/PPK designs) ... if other alternatives were available.

Another issue was the rudimentary sights and point-of-aim results - not much to brag about, which in all fairness is typical of most, if not all small semi-auto pistols.

As to concealed & accessible carry while wearing a backpack - the Safepacker is the only thing I've found to work well at all.

http://store.thewilderness.com/product_i...2c8c9c4f6b51558

Good luck with your endeavor .......

I am going to pass on the Beretta. It's not so much the gun as the caliber. Listen to those who know-- thanks for the advice.

If you hear a god awful BOOOOM!! in the woods, its just me, The 357 goes back in the pack.

Slo hiker -- I looked at the Safepacker. Their one picture did not explain much - do you have any pics of it in use that would show more about it? thanks

Try this link .....
http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=51&osCsid=6c7dd34780b44a799400d0a18271acc0

Have a peek at the Ruger LCP .380. 9ish ounces. So popular they sold a quarter million of the things the first week they were out. Still hard to find but worth waiting for.

I carry a Glock. I like it because it is so corrosion resistant. I used to carry a blued 44 magnum long barrel but it got some rust on it.

I use a waist pouch lsimilar to this gun:
http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2125.php

Well, I "own" a Beretta Tomcat .32 stainless auto pistol. At least I used to own it but I've misplaced it around the house (unloaded W/ no magazine). "Oldtimer's Disease" strikes again.

Anyhow, it's OK for concealed carry in urban settings but usless as tits on a boar for anything but self defense against humans.

For griz, cougar & black bear defense I'd recommend a Tarus titanium .41 magnum.

Eric

Most threads like this here and on other forums always seem to boil down to the same equation. On one side you have size and weight and on the other side you have stopping power. When one side goes up the other side has to go up too.

One could argue that even a small gun is better than no gun at all. But I'm not going to carry a tent that just keeps me partially dry because it's lighter or a sleep pad that keeps me only partially comfortable because it's smaller. Personally, if I were to carry a gun into the woods at all I would want one that has the best chance of doing the job. IMO that rules out the smaller calibers.

Anyone who carries a weapon into the woods presumably does so because they believe their safety or maybe even their life may depend on it. Is this really a place to cut corners in order to save a few ounces or cubic inches?

"Rootball",

I found my Tomcat (in my closet under a pile of clothes).

Anyhow I'm trading it on a new Smith & Wesson/Walther PPS in .40 caliber.
It's thinner than the Beretta Tomcat and at 21.4 oz. it's lighter due to its polymer frame. It's no larger than James Bond's 9 mm. Walther PPK but more powerful, if uglier.

And then there's the .40 caliber round that is used by most law enforcement agencies in the nation. That's considered a "major caliber" round in pistol competition, whereas even a 9mm. is still a minor caliber round.

Price? $622. retail but about $580. at most dealers. Still, a chunk of change. But, hey, it fits in your pants' cargo pocket so easily and if ya need more than 8 rounds to "get the job done" yer in need of more range time.

Eric

Glock 30 23.9 oz 45 auto. I will carry the extra weight.

Well Podner, it ain't the bit of extra weight of the little Glock .45 auto or the heavier .45 cal. recoil, its the REALLY thin profile of the S&W/Walther PPS .40 cal.that draws me that-away. Great for concealed carry.

I'm also selling my Glock 17 to get a Glock in the same frame size (to fit my duty gear I have for the Glock 17) in .40 cal. so I'll have both duty and concealed carry pistols in the same caliber. And .40 cal. is what most security and armored car companies require these days.

Eric

Bingo. I think you hit the nail right on the head, don't think I could've said it any better.

If you're going to carry a firearm for your safety, make sure it will be powerful enough to get the job done. If saving ounces/pounds outweighs the importance of having a truly effective weapon at your disposal, then you probably shouldn't be carrying a firearm at all.

I am carrying the 357. I did not purchase another gun. The funny thing is that I did not think the 357 would fit in the hipbelt pocket on my Catalyst - I tried it with the pack laying in the floor and it seemed as thought the handle would stick out a little. But when I was wearing the pack I took the gun out of my pant pocket and slid it into the pack pocket and it fit. It fits just right as a matter of fact. I can't feel it, it comes out easily, and the bulge does not look like a gun. It was nice last weekend to have the gun. We passed two bears on the Bmt ridge near cherohala skyway and I felt better knowing that I had a chance. The funny thing is that when we were walking through blackberry thickets I was yelling 'hey bear' every once in a while and I think all it did was move them to brush at the side of the trail because when we got right beside them they took off crashing through the brush. It made my heart jump both times. The first one might have gotten shot if he had come at us - there was enough distance- but the second one was only yards away when it jumped and took off and I think it would have been too close for anything other than a scream.

In another month or so the hunters will be out moving around and I will face another challenge - the bears will be practicing avoidance, so I will not see them again until spring. But the hounds that chase the bears might be a threat to my dog. Many times I have been awakened by hounds in my camp at night. So I will have to worry that they might be agressive toward my dog. I sleep like a rock and he stays near me as far as I know - but he never barks at anything and he might go out to greet some hounds at night and get attacked. Just one more thing to worry about when taking a dog.

Thanks for all the input.

For those who don't know what a Safepacker is or how it looks:


It can easily be worn on your pack's belt.

This shows it as well:

Don't forget when you are carrying your handgun in one of these flap covered pouches it is considered a concealed weapon and therefore illegal..................unless you have a valid Concealed Weapons permit on your person.

Better to just carry it in an open holster.

Better to have a CPL than open carry.

Foolishness

Exactly. No open carry. I've stood talking to the police with a weapon conceiled and there was no suspicision. Why create a situation. If your not guilty of anything, you have nothing to fear. Forget the 32, I carry a 45 with hollow points.

Hmmm.............Open carry or hide your handgun in a pocket?

I believe you are missing the point here. If one does not have a valid Concealed Weapons Permit on their person, when carrying a concealed weapon on them then you're breaking the law i.e, it's illegal.

Unless one purchases their handgun from a private party or a small gunshow and thus gets around the loophole in the law bypassing having to do a background check then you're still illegally carrying a handgun whether it's concealed or open carry.

You are not creating a situation if you have in possession on your person a permit for your handgun. The Police have a right to ask. What are you afraid of? Do you have legal documents for handgun ownership?

Bottom line get a permit for open carry or get a Concealed Weapons Permit for pouch carry when hiking.

I'm not against guns nor ownership of firearms. I shoot at local gun ranges myself.

Your "loophole" does NOT exist in Wa in reference to gun shows. The major ones, while anyone can attend, only those who are a member or have a CPL can buy a gun and walk out with it that day. Otherwise, waiting periods apply as with anywhere else.
To be a member you have to have a CPL or have a background check (same thing) to even belong.

Yes, one can get around it with private sales. Hence why when we do private sales we do it through a shop, where everything is processed and paperwork is filed. This is also a safe way to buy online from gun forums - the gun is shipped into a valid shop and they handle everything for a fee. FedEx will ship overnight - you have to file paperwork, but it isn't hard.

As noted there is NOTHING wrong with using a Safepacker - they are one of the best ways to carry. Getting a CPL in most states is easy and doesn't cost a fortune - Wa state for example has to issue you one if you pay the fees and pass the FBI check. And have a limit on how long they can take. I know what states I can carry in legally - and keep up on it.

Why to NOT carry open? I have noticed that horse packers, who almost always carry openly, are often uncomfortable when they pass what they perceive to be 'city folk'. And frankly, I don't blame them. They get looked down on - and anyone can cry off to a Deputy or ranger that you are brandishing just by open carry.

No one sees it, no issues. As long as one carries their card with them, all is good.

O.k. All you law enforcement people out there in hiking land. What are the laws on carrying a rifle? Not that I would carry one Bpacking. And I don't deer hunt anymore. And another point. Doesn't the constitution state that it is our right to keep and bear arms? I think when this was written it wasn't for home protection. It was to defend our country against a rouge government. I believe that should still be the case. But the law got twisted around in the last 200 years. It P,s me off that the government should be able to control what you do and think. If and when I need to carry, I will permit or no. If I use it for the wrong purpose, then I deserve to go to jail. How many guns are on the streets? How many registered guns are stolen from law abiding people that are stupid enough to keep them in their vehicles, with S&W stickers on their back windows. I could go on. We have a local cop in this city that is going to jail for getting in an altercation with a DJ at a local bar. The officer killed the DJ. He was licensed and paid to carry. It's not whether you have a permit that decides who is good or not. It's the morals of the person.

Have a NICE DAY>..........

This doesn't have to do with the specific gun in question, but I though you all might be interested in a gun story from my past. Many years ago a friend of mine was showing me some slides of a backpacking trip he took on Kodiak Island in Alaska. His dad was a civilian employee at the Navy base there. I noticed on one slide that he was carrying a huge pistol in a waist holster. He later showed it to me at his house and it was a Desert Eagle 44 magnum made in Israel, the biggest hand gun I have ever seen. He explained that it was common for the locals on Kodiak Island to carry such a weapon while backpacking for protection from the enormous Grizzly bears that live there. My friend was a big strong horse and apparently didn't mind carrying the weight of this huge gun. He said that anything smaller wouldn't stop a charging Grizzly. And the designated campsite he stayed at there was completely enclosed on all sides, even the top--kind of a reverse zoo situation. This was over twenty years ago, so I don't know if this is still going on up there, but I though some of you might find it interesting.

My response is off-topic as well, but there's much to be said about heeding what the "locals" do sometimes ..... your friend exercised good common sense.

Just chirping in with another vote for the Safepacker. Might even be debatable as to whether it is really carrying concealed by point of law and something to look into as it is really a flap style holster designed to carry the gun and extra ammo. I'd find that out beforehand in your state before carrying in one without a concealed carry permit. Flap style holsters such as the Bianchi 84 entirely cover the gun so a case might be made. I wouldn't want to try to make it out on the trail with Mr. LEO though.

Back when the earth was young I was an investigator for the 82nd Abn Div MP Co.
I briefly served on the Atlanta Ga PD, I've done a little bounty hunting, and I was for several years the most active (probably, anyway) NRA Certified Handgun Instructor in WV. I grew up hunting; my first weeklong solo backpacking trip involved both a spinning rod and a Ruger 10/22. I've hiked from Jackson, Wy to Lander Wy alone, unsupported and without benefit of resupply. My eldest daughter outshot a sailor home on leave when she was 10. With a .45. I can go on. We all have to find what works for us; but I have some strong personal opinions on guns and backpacking and backpacking with guns.
.32 ACP is the second-most useless cartridge I know of. Forget kinetic energy (knockdown). Look at penetration. A.22 SHORT has better penetration. .32 ACP normally will not penetrate the skull from the front but slides along the outside of the skull. Ditto the heart. It can be stopped cold by belt buckles, books... probably hiking poles. Even given the psychological stopping power a gun has, I would rather have a KaBar than a .25, and it's certainly no better than a 50-50 proposition, in my opinion, .32 ACP vs Kabar.
Not to mention wild animals. .357 or .45 vs black bear? Oh, hell yeah. Either one will do the job nicely, given relatively good shot placement. I doubt even my ability to hit some other animals- coyotes, mountain lions, etc- in a fight, with a handgun, though; and I'm way better than most (I've won literally hundreds of local matches, a couple state titles, and one regional shoot). Gizzly vs. 44? Dream on. Maybe a .454 Casull in expert hands, or a .480. MAYBE. But there's something far more effective.
Oleo resin capsicum. Bear spray. It's effective on anything with eyeballs. You spray 'em, they go blind. Chipmunks to crackheads, instant nighttime. And its worse for predators, really, because many of them get at least as much info from their nose as from their eyes, and it shuts down their olfactory glands also. Point and shoot.
There are two problems with the spray- all weapons have limitations. You should if possible watch wind direction if you use bear spray. Thats normally not a problem in what many people fear the most- the attack of a predatory black bear. He will attack, usually, from downwind. The other problem is enclosed spaces. Which is why, in bear country, esp alone, I try to sleep in the open on the bare ground. I'll pitch a tarp in case it starts raining, and I have a bugnet deal if I have to use it. But never- never- all enclose in some single-wall tent or such taht have multiple layers of cloth and zippers between me and whats trying to kill me. I want to be able to fight back. I have adhesive-backed velcro on my bear spray. When I go to sleep I wrap an ace bandage around my chest, over any clothes I'm wearing to bed. Next a 10" strip of double-sided velcro goes under/around the ace bandage. Instant "holster". It may sound uncomfortable, but it really isn't unless you sleep on your stomach, which I never do.
But there are times I want a gun, too; especially hitching back to my car. I carry a NAA Black Widow in .22 Magnum. The cartridge has amazing flexibility, as much stopping power as a .38 Special, and better penetration (with solid copper rounds). I carry snake shot on the trail, usually, and <ahem> poach the occasional grouse, rabbit, and snake. I carry hollowpoints hitching, with the gun secured to a sturdy necklace, barrel up, under my shirt (the little SA revolver has some utterly unique characteristics that make this a safe carry imo). Finally, I sleep with solids in it, because... well, just because I do, I guess <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It weighs less than 9 oz and can safely carry 5 rounds. You can find it here.

Okay let me first say I carry a Glock 19 9mm with 147 grain hollow points. I do have a WA state Concealed Pistol Permit. I usually just throw it in the top pocket of my pack....

Now onto the law reguarding concealed carry...

It is different for every state so look in your state codes. According to the Revised Code of Washington;
______________________________________________________
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a [color:"red"]a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.[/color]

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
_____________________________________________
Now Here is the exception to the code:
_____________________________________________

RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

(1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

(2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

(3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

(5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

[color:"red"] (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;[/color]

(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

(10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

Looks to me as though that law should be a model to other states. Thanks.

I'm with you on that Chaz. Lots of good informative posts, and no trash talking brands. It's about time, and to think of all the threads in the past that were so anti-gun and hostile to carrying in the backcountry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> If there's a reason and you have the proper training it's your God given right to do so within the means of the law. Oh, and don't forget to pick up yer brass <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jayhat is your badge from the RR's?

In Texas, HB 1815 was passed and went into effect on 9/1/07. It clarifies a previous law, where you can carry a concealed weapon in your car without a liscense. It has to be concealed. You have to legally own the gun and the car, cannot be engaging in a criminal act, and cannot be a member of a street gang.

When the law was passed, news agencies reported that, if pulled over by an officer, disclosure of the weapon should be made immediately. However, the law does not mention this. I polled my cousin who is a state trooper and she disagreed and said she would prefer that it remained concealed. This is just the opinion of one law enforcement officer, which I am sure there are many.