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#100690 - 08/03/08 07:31 AM Tragedy in the NW
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA

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#100691 - 08/03/08 07:54 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: mockturtle]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
mockturtle:

We did this short hike (Sauk Mt. Trail) a few years ago. The trailhead is just off Highway 20 near Rockport State Park (heading towards North Cascades NP) and has probably been done by most WA hikers. Beautiful switchbacking hike with tons of wildflowers and great views at the top.

It is, quoting most any trail guide's description of it, "a heavily used trail."

I was wondering about bear hunting taking place on Aug. 2nd, but apparently the Washington State black bear "season" opened on Aug 1 and runs through November.

On the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest website, they do state this:

Firearms: Firing a gun is not allowed . . . in any circumstance whereby a person may be injured or property damaged.

Definitely a regulation was broken here.

When we hiked the trail in August a few years ago, we had no idea that people could be hunting bears there; I always thought the season was in the fall. If only that kid had instead been shooting the bear with a Nikon while so near an "extra heavy" use trail (US Forest Service words,) then the hiker, Pam Almli, would still be alive to see the bear that the kid thought he was killing.

To put this in perspective, though, we have a similar ritual in South Florida. It's the annual "mini season" for recreational divers to strip the seabed of "bugs" before the commercial guys set their traps for the new season. It was Wednesday & Thursday of last week. We only had four divers die in their attempt to get their "limit." (A fifth is still missing.) Not a good year. Thing is that here, in their feverish quest to take those lobsters, they only did themselves in, not someone else who was simply out for a hike. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Video on the hiker that was shot is here.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#100692 - 08/04/08 05:27 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: kevonionia]
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
I'm not opposed to hunting, per se, but this was a case of incredible irresponsibility (how could one not tell a bear from a hiker?!) and, as you aptly point out, they should not have been hunting in that area at all, or at least that appears to be the case.

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#100693 - 08/04/08 06:08 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: mockturtle]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Its a good idea to wear safety colors hiking during hunting season - or not. I put an orange or red vest on m dog when we go for a walk during hunting season. I wear bright colors and even a flame orange stocking cap. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

However shooting at something because it "might be game that you might have a tag for" is a stupid thing that every hunter safety course deals with, however a young hunter may not and obviously did not, have enough respect for the gun. I'll bet hes more careful in the future. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#100694 - 08/04/08 07:39 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: Jimshaw]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Jim:

Of coure we don't know all the details here, but would you be wearing orange on August 2nd on this 'right-off-the-highway' trail? If this kid really did have an adult with him, then the latter needs to get the @#$% sued out of him for GROSS NEGLIGENCE. I haven't heard how old the kid is, and obviously if he's underaged, his name should STAY OUT of the media. And another question is: should this kid ever have another gun to be careful with in his future?
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#100695 - 08/05/08 03:42 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: kevonionia]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
If I may repeat myself - its about having respect for the gun. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> We are so awash with swashbuckling gun totin heros that we forget something - we're not supposed to kill. Now I'm not making a value judgement or anything, kids these days are not taught about gun safety and about what it means to kill - it means ya gotta eat it, and if yer lucky ya get to cook it first. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Seeing something dead after pulling a trigger is a sobering experience, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but like all experiences - Ya don't learn about it from reading, you have to experience it. I'm sure it never occurred to the hunter to stop and make real sure before being trigger happy.

I mean its a tragedy for sure. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure there wil be legal repurcussions for a while. In California if you inadvertently kill someone without intent its still manslaughter. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Up here shootin a gun in an inhabtited area is pretty much a no no. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

and no I don't wear dayglo orange on August 2nd. BUT it does say a lot about wearing bright colored camping gear instead of trying to blend in. funny but almost all of my old jackets nd pants are flame red. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#100696 - 08/06/08 08:22 AM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: Jimshaw]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Yes, respect for the firearm along with training. The dad should have had his eye on what the kid was about to shoot at. And I dought that the hiker was dressed in a bear suit. If you ain't sure of your target, DONT PULL THE TRIGGER. I think the dad is to blame and should be hit hard in the wallet, do community service, have his hunting license revoked for ten years and complete a real fire arms course. Cause it seems like he didn't know what the @%#! he was doing in the first place.
I used to hunt and shoot as often as I can for practice but if I were hunting something or somewhere I was unfamilier with I would hire a guide. I know several Dumb A## people that have had hunting accidents. Some shooting themselves or shooting in the wrong direction etc. A few have shot vechicles. I could go on but you get the picture.

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#100697 - 08/06/08 10:53 AM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: chaz]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Chaz
trouble is ya get to start with a REAL gun. You should have to carry a rubber band gun <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, then a cork gun, then a bb gun, then a slingshot and finally a real internal combustion gun, but only after training and I mean if virtual hunting caught on - like cop training where they go into a room with props and movies and you have to decide quickly what to shoot and what not - hunters would be more prepared for the reality. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Problem is you start with a firearm and learn common sense later. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />But is it any scarrier than giving kids the keys to a car? Cars do kill more people than guns... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

When I was a 15 year old kid I would throw my rifle over my shoulder, grab a box of shells, and ride my bicycle a mile and a half across town to the NRA shoot every Wednesaday night. Believe me, I was taught and had it drilled in that you NEVER point a gun at anything you do not intend to kill and you must clearly identify the target and have a clear known safe backdrop for your bullet to go into if you miss. Many hunters are too excited about "getting something" to operate safely. They assume they bullet will only hit its intended target.
Jim YMMV <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#100698 - 08/06/08 12:03 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: chaz]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2801
Loc: NorCal
No dad there at all. Grampa dropped off the 16 and 14-year olds (the latter is the shooter) and drove off.

What business does a 14YO have stomping around the woods with a hunting rifle and zero supervision? Oh, that's right, a 16YO's supervision.

It ticks me off because they're out there for recreation same as the woman slain--not out of some need to get bear meat for their starving peeps back home. Why does one form of recreation trump another?

Article
_________________________
--Rick

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#100699 - 08/06/08 02:25 PM Re: Tragedy in the NW [Re: Jimshaw]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Oh now I get it. Smart bullets.

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