Safe solo trips for women?

I've spent the last two hours searching the archives, and turned up nothing on this topic, so apologies if it's already been addressed somewhere...
I'm a newbie to these forums, but I've been backpacking for the last eight years. I'm about a year away from finishing school, and for the first time having a bit more disposable income, flexible time off, etc, and I hope to get out on the trails a LOT more.
The trouble is that most of my backpacking buddies have moved away, lost interest, or just have very demanding jobs. The last several times I've tried to organize trips, I've been simply unable to find people to go with me. I'd love to start solo hiking (I went on a solo trip once on Assateague and it was amazing), but as a woman (and a short one at that), I'm concerned about the dangers presented by other people. I live close to the AT, but there have been several murders along it, especially of young women hiking alone. How, besides firearms (I'm not particularly comfortable with guns), do other women deal with this danger on the tail? Mace?
I have to admit that, as a soon-to-be veterinarian, my first thought was to get a dog to go camping with me. Besides the time delay in such a plan, due to getting the dog trained well enough to not be a nuisance to other hikers, I also wouldn't be able to bring the dog with me to any national parks. I've also struggled a bit with the conundrum that a dog that was decent protection probably wouldn't be the best animal to have with me in public, and vice versa. If I do get a dog, I will probably wind up training it to go on some of my backpacking trips with me eventually... I'm just not sure whether a canine companion would be a viable way to address to issue of personal security.
Is it just a bad idea for women to go backpacking solo? Or are there ways to make it work? The prospect of 'packing more than twice a year is tantalizing, but I'm afraid I'll be forever unable to find people who can go when I can!

Well, not being female, or slight, I can't comment on the level of danger in any real way, however, The only time I have every had an issue to draw anything in anger on a trail it was a can of frontiersman bear spray that is always with me, and it wasn't for a bear, it was for a mountain biker.. Personally, I'd just take a nice bottle of bear spray, and keep it with you
like you were in grizzly country (mine does hang off the head end of my hammock at night) (Not to mention it's kinda handy for bears or aggressive dogs too..)

Has the added benefit that unlike mace or a gun, nobody will generally bat an eye about you carrying bear spray on the trail nice and visible, yet anyone walking by you knows you have it and is more likely to go bother someone else.

I have a little pepper spray with a velcro wrap-around-fingers holster that rides in my zipper pocket on my hipbelt. I don't worry about animals, just people, but mostly even the people are pretty friendly on the trail... I carry it because of the same sort of paranoia, because it would be just my luck, I'd be ten miles from anywhere and some guy would decide that means he can do whatever.

I don't know that I would rely on a dog. It would have to be a formally trained attack dog, I think, and big enough to be dangerous. I don't know that I would want to subject a pet to giving up its life for me, which is what would likely happen in confrontations with bears, or a guy with a gun. And then I'd be just as vulnerable.

I also have three years of karate training (in a style meant to be used as self defense; not all styles are) and I'd bet you that gonad-grab-and-twist they taught me would work wonders. In fact, you can do it regardless of gender of your attacker. The girls have fleshy bits too, they just require a bit more grab. Self defense classes might be worthwhile. I'm pretty much okay with anything I have to do, from a whack in the crotch/upside the head with a hiking pole to an all out finger-breaking nut-grabbing get-your-hands-off-me defense. Like a gun or the pepper spray, you have to be comfortable enough to use the technique/tool effectively, so whatever you consider using in a pinch, you need to practice. (remember to wash your hands if you practice aiming the spray, and remember not to spray into the wind - I rubbed an eye an hour later and we won't talk about the results.)

I know that none of this guarantees I'm going to be completely safe, but it sure helps. One of the things I appreciate about the karate was not that it trained me to hurt others, but that it made me less afraid of being hurt. I was knocked cold during a belt testing by a wild punch, but I was up a few seconds later and going after the kid who landed it. I know that if confronted by a guy with anything other than a gun, I can trap and disarm, then give the guy a reason to lay there on the ground screaming while I hike out at my own pace to find a ranger to give his description and last known location to.

Sorry to all the guys (and girls) who just crossed their legs and winced. But I'm just bein' practical here.

I'll tell you this...

I've met solo women on the trail a lots of times and I almost always get the feeling that they suspect I'm a potential rapist/axe murderer and I don't particularly like that. (I don't even carry an axe <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Here's a story about that...

A solo woman hiker came up to me once while I was sitting by a creek eating lunch and said she was lost and wanted to know the way to the trail. I told her that she could find it upstream, but she had to look closely because it was easy to miss, or she could bushwhack up the hill and she'd cross the trail, or she could wait a bit and I'd show her the way to the trail. She quickly decided she'd bushwhack. I advised against that since she was already lost, but she didn't listen to that advice.

An hour later she came back out of the forest all scratched up and said she couldn't find the trail. I was just getting ready to head out so I told her she could follow me. It was about a mile or two bushwhack to the trail and by the time we were half way there I could tell she was really getting nervous, to the point where she was making me uncomfortable. Now I admit that I was exceptionally ugly right then because I'd been in the forest for three days bushwhacking around and probably wasn't too pretty when I first got there, but she was starting to get visibly nervous so I tried to calm her down with small talk and I sped up my pace but I was packing about 30 pounds and it was a steep hill so I had to take a few breaks and each time I stopped she got even more paranoid. It was getting to the point where I started thinking she might employ a preemptive attack and I better start worrying.

I finally handed her my GPS and told her if she followed the arrow it would take her to her car, and I handed her my Topo map, and told she didn't need to wait for me, but I'd feel better if she'd at least stick with me until we got to the trail.

When we reached the trail she practically sprinted off without so much as saying thanks or goodbye and I was worn out from trying to get to the trail way to fast and I had zoomed by some of my favorite spots where I like to hang out for a bit, so I felt like complete jerk for working so hard to help someone who didn't even utter a work of appreciation in return. At least she left my GPS in my car when she got back. I didn't even expect that after the way she took off.

Anyway, I'm sure she would have felt safer if she'd been with a friend and I would have felt lot better if I wasn't treated like I was taking her far out into the wilderness to rape and murder her instead of saving her stupid a## like I was actually doing.

So my advice is this... If you are afraid when you're out there alone, don't go alone. If you do go alone, don't get lost. If you do get lost, don't treat the guy saving your tail like a rapist/axe murderer because it's rude.

But there are some rapist/axe murderers out there, as you already pointed out, and it would be naive to not be prepared to defend yourself. Also, there aren't many dogs who's tail I can't kick, so I wouldn't consider a dog much protection.

Honestly, I just can't recommend a woman head out alone and not worry about it. I wish I could.

Get a gun. One that shoots big bullets, and learn how to shoot it real good. Better yet, get a friend, a good friend, and have a great time out there.

Oh yeah, Welcome to the Forum!!

Kindest Regards,

Bill

Yeah, phat, bringing Bear Spray is probably better advice than a gun with big bullets. I'd rather get sprayed by a paranoid woman I'm saving than shot with big bullets <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bill

I would second Lori's comments about a self defense class. Any decent class will teach situational awareness and projecting an assertive, "I am not a victim" attitude. I am not so sure I would put too much reliance on spray. The wind can really mess it up.

Let's do put things in perspective. Being attacked is certainly a potential problem and you are wise to deal with it. But it isn't the greatest hazard you face in the outdoors, either solo or in a group.

I also carry bear spray [Counter Assault] when hiking. I happen to live--and hike--in grizzly country but I would carry it anyway to deter two-legged beasties. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, it can, but I've shot a bear spray can off (not the little guy the big one) and it's pretty
forceful - at the 10-15 feet range you're still gonna spray what it's pointed at, just in a big wind maybe yourself too, albeit less than what you're spraying. I had to convince myself
in order to make an informed decision about switching to spray.

I've also shot an awful lot of handgun. I'd put more reliance bear spray than a handgun
in the hands of someone who has little experience shooting a handgun a lot and under pressure. Sorry, If the debate is 12 gauge versus bear spray, I agree with you. Handgun, no, pick the bear spray for the non-regular shooter.

I agree 100% with everything else though!

I know someone in law enforcement who teaches a RAD class, which might be an option for you both to quickly aquire some skills, and give you that good attitude about it.

There are a few threads on this. Go to the Health & Safety forum and look for one entitled "Scared Now."

When using the search engine, be sure to set the timeframe for "more than" at 2-3 years otherwise you won't find much.

btw, the last thing I want to run into on the trail is someone who is paranoid and carrying a gun.

My advice-either stay home or join the Sierra Club.

I hear this all too often. How sad that we live a world such as this. I have two daughters. I would never encourage either of them to hike alone. Sad, Sad, Sad.

ok...so I definitely do not want to send anyone out with a light "no worries" attitude who then runs into danger...however, I am a short and after a few weeks of packing...slight (otherwise could lose 10 lbs) female. I am a pacifist...no gun for me. I wouldn't handle it right if I had one. I don't carry spray. I have considered that, but I really don't react in weaponry mode when anything ever happens so I think it would be extra weight I wouldn't think of if something came up. I do carry the gratuitous knife...which has no more than cut cheese. I am not even a hunter/fisherwoman (vegetarian!) so...

I have also heard stories about the AT. Having grown up in the South...I don't imagine soloing in that region. In California, I solo now all the time without any concern at all. I don't really backpack near towns I guess...beaches can be hairy I have heard. It sucks for a woman. I just decided to heck with it...I am going to enjoy my time on this earth and do what appeals to me. (within reason) and I am a very comfortable female solo-packer. I do not go off trail anyway...so I do not worry about getting lost with a stranger who is male. I don't tell anyone on the trail what my actual plan is...just show up at a spot and see them again if that happens. (My plans are not usually that cemented anyway)I have had more assistance and generosity than ill-will. Only once did I ever change my plans to avoid someone I was uncomfortable with...that is always an option one should be prepared to employ. I have great instincts which I hope never fail me...in part because I do want to smile and greet my fellow packers in a friendly way as I see them on the trail regardless of gender...not live in uncertainty!

I have always considered myself "born lucky" with good instincts for danger. I have no trouble slipping away from a seemingly odd situation, and I don't talk myself into staying there or disregard my feelings. My concerns are more about basic backpacking dangers when I am alone with no one to assist me...falling, mountain lions, etc. But I LOVE soloing and am willing to take those risks with preparation and some common sense...and yes a leap of faith!

But any woman who doesn't know she has those instincts etc...should not solo. And even we who think we do...are taking a certain risk for sure.

Here is my JMT solo adventure:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=216313

Safety isn't exclusively a concern for women, but I think we can all acknowledge that a solo female hiker faces more risks than solo male hikers. However, the solution is the same in either case.

Your personal safety is up to you. You should train and equip yourself so that you are comfortable (I stress comfortable, no room for undue distress or paranoia) that you can deal with what you're likely to face. This advice is the same whether the threat is terrain, weather, wildlife or, most dangerous of all, your fellow human beings.

If you cannot get comfortable with the challenges, then you should not go solo.

I don't want to get off topic or sound dense here, but you and the OP specifically mention the AT as if it is the "rough part of town". I live and hike in the SE, and I don't have the perception that it is any worse than anywhere else. What makes the AT worse than other areas?

I can think of several factors why the AT might be considered more dangerous, even if it were not more dangerous in actual fact..

The AT is a very long trail. In a few specific places there have been criminal activities that were highly publicized, including a few murders. The publicity was much greater than for most murders (think of the dozens up to hundreds of murders each year in New York, Chicago, DC, Philly) in part because the murder of a hiker on a trail is surprising and therefore more "newsworthy". Next, the authorities are more likely to use publicity for this sort of crime in an effort to turn up clues.

Also, because the AT is a famous trail, and a popular trail, any criminal news that happens there is likely to be remembered to have happened on the AT, as opposed to a little known trail, where the fact of "where" is soon recalled merely as "on a trail somewhere".

Lastly, the sheer numbers of hikers who hike the AT compared to other trails is more likely to lead to a larger number criminal acts on the AT than on other trails, just following the law of averages.

Perception is a large part of how people think and perception is often distorted by emotion or circumstances. The real measure of danger would be crimes per hiker mile, but humans are not built to think in those terms. They must be taught to.

Also the AT is very accessible to a lot of major population centers, indicating that it is also accessible to a higher probability of nefarious persons (this is a slightly different situation than just a lot of people on the trail). However, I think the other factors you pointed out are the majority reasons, since the nefarious density is certainly higher where I live near DC, yet I rarely feel unsafe near home.

Ok, what I posted was a loaded question. I was hoping someone would put things in perspective (thanks aimless).

I’m sure the perception of the AT is “bad” right now because of the recent incident where that girl that was abducted and killed while hiking around Blood Mtn in GA. It’s just like a few years ago when those people (a woman and her daughter I think?) were killed in or near Yosemite. So is Yosemite a bad place too? What about SEKI with all their illegal pot fields being guarded by armed bandits?

At any rate, the media hypes this stuff out to no end. If one were to look at actual data (and I can’t say that I have done this), I would suspect that hiking on the AT is not much riskier (if riskier at all) than hiking anywhere else.

That was all…sorry for going off topic…

PS…I hiked in SEKI last year without a second thought of the pot field guards (is this even really a problem anymore?)…

PPS…I also understand that I am not a woman of slight build, and I respect the concern about going solo…

These are sound points being made...far more logical than "i heard" which is where I was coming from about the AT. I had heard that there have been several rape incidents at shelters along the way...but who knows how exaggerated that is, and if I am now perpetuating a myth. I also understand the AT to be near many small towns (as it is so long). I just feel that there are more incidents in local parks etc. than a place where one has to hike a ways to act nutty! Of course...if I wanted to do the AT...I would be able to justify why I could and even should!

I am a short (although inclined to stoutness) older woman. I guess that puts me in the vulnerable class. I have, however, solo hiked for years and have never had any problems, nor do I feel particularly vulnerable. I do not carry a gun, partly because they are too heavy and partly because my previous history (including a target shooting class in college) proves that I can't hit the side of a barn when I'm inside it. My idea of the ideal defense weapon is a double-barrelled 12-gauge shotgun (most impressive from the business end), but that's far too heavy and bulky for anything but home defense. I won't carry bear spray unless I'm in grizzly country, which I don't hike (there aren't any grizz in Oregon, and in Washington there are only a few along the Canadian border, a long way from where I hike). And it would be just my luck to spray the stuff in the wrong direction....

My hiking buddy is a dog (mostly Lab) who is about the most non-threatening animal alive (the most dangerous thing about him is his wagging tail, which keaves black-and-blue marks on people's legs). However, there have been a couple of occasions when he has growled or barked at suspicious acting characters, and from that I suspect that if I were attacked he just might put his teeth into play. I also carry a pair of sharp-ended trekking poles. If someone wants to attack me, he might win, but he sure won't get off unscathed. I believe that just the presence of the largish dog and the trekking poles act as a deterrent in many cases.

However, I believe that the most important defenses are alertness and a confident attitude. Acting scared (as in Bill Stephenson's story) just reminds others that you are vulnerable. I hike a lot in the Columbia River Gorge which is close to a major interstate highway and has lots of non-hikers (tourons, as we call them privately) near the trailheads. I greet everyone I meet on the trail in a friendly fashion, with a smile, but as I do that I'm also carefully sizing them up. I get my dog close to my side to reassure those who are nervous around dogs and so we can pass without the dreaded crotch sniff. That also has the dog right beside me should someone decide to make a move on me.

It might be that a few self-defense classes are all you need to gain that confident attitude! The other possibility is, of course, to join a hiking club of some sort. Start by asking at outdoor stores in your area. Another advantage of being in a club is carpooling, especially in these days of $3.50/gallon gas.

Without getting into too much math, let's do a little risk assessment on this topic: By far the most dangerous part of hiking is driving to and from the trailhead--especially the "from" portion when you are fatigued. The risk gets higher if, as some do, you stop for a beer on the way home. It's higher yet if a lot of other drivers have stopped for a beer or six on the way home. The risk of being out on the road in a motor vehicle far outweighs any risk you'll meet on the trail! The biggest risk on the trail, is, of course, hypothermia (or hyperthermia, alias heat stroke, depending on the weather). The risk from four-legged beasts--cougars, bear, rattlesnakes, other wild animals (deer, elk and moose have all been known to charge)--and from the two-legged variety are very minor. I'm sure that you know the old journalism saying, "When a dog bites a man, it's not news, but when a man bites a dog, that's news." Auto accidents don't make news healines because they happen all the time. Hikers being attacked--whether by two or four-legged animals--do make the headlines because such attacks are so rare--they are in the "man bites dog" category.

I do understand about the pacifist way of thinking but it can get you killed. You might consider a self defense course. If you see a bear or mountain lion you will know dought 1. try to look large 2. yell loud 3. defend yourself if attacked. I was once carjacked in my front yard with a 9mm held to my head. I didn't do anything but stand their while they went through my pockets and drove off in my car. I went through all the changes for several months until I made a decision to control the situation and not freeze. Now when I'm aproached by anyone, I'm on the defence. Ready to slash vital parts to stop the situation. I may be hurt or killed but I will not be taken advantage of ever again. I'm not giving up to anyone. It's kinda like crossing a rageing stream. If you step gingerly you can be knocked over. Cross the water like you own it. You will slip on a few rocks but with a positive frame of mind you will recover and trudge through the water like a tractor. Most preditors or bullies are cowards. Give them a big suprise and always remain aware of your surroundings.
I hope you never have to use any aggression because it will ruin your day for sure. But!

Happy trails...

I am in agreement with you. I do not call it lucky. I just think that no matter where you are there are a few kooks out there. But I do not get all worried about that. Look at the actual statistics. Do you stay inside your house because someone in town got murdered? You are more likely to die of hypothermia, a fall or other issues. I have never carried a gun or mace or anything. I have, although, thought of my ice axe as a weapon! I have never met anyone other than really nice folks in the wilderness.

As far as off-trail - I think it is almost safer. I do not worry about kooky people because I do not see anyone - except bears.
On the less used, less popular trails, you will meet a lot less people, if that is what you are worried about.

I think once you get a number of miles from the trailhead, away from drunks, you will be fine. Any place with easy access is more of a worry.

Life is a risk. Reduce the risk to zero and you have no life worth living.

If you do not feel comfortable about the risk, real or perceived, you need to find a backpack partner. I do not think you will enjoy your trip if you cannot come to the point where you feel safe. There is no "shame" in not going alone. Some people do not like to go solo for a host of other reasons too - too lonely, too many "bumps in the night", nobody to share the good moments with.

I suggest that you pop some popcorn, sit down, and read a long but excellent online book:
http://gorp.away.com/gorp/publishers/wildernesspress/trailsafe/trailsafe.htm