Lehigh University Product Development Project

Hi all,
I am a current student at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, PA and as part of my Integrated Engineering and Business Program I am a part of a product development class. For my project my team is developing a more kid friendly camping backpack to be used anywhere from backpacking to car camping to even backyard camping.
In order to start development on the project we must first go out into the market place and see what experts and people who use, have used or wish to use similar products think about them. It would be greatly appreciated if you could take a few moments and help us out with the information collection.
Any and all responses will be instrumental in the development of our product.

Thanks,
Tyler Stangle
Lehigh University
tks216@lehigh.edu

The one that fits.

They need to be scaled down (obviously), light, have a wide range of sizes each pack (size?) will fit 'cause kids come in all sizes and shapes and tend to grow out of stuff fast. See, one of the biggest problems is kids growing out of a pack after 1 or 3 uses. So people tend to not want to waste the money on them.

There are hundreds of backpacks aimed at the kids market. Most of them are designed to be 'fun', colorful, eye-catching, and to appeal to a kid's sense of play. Kids use them to carry books and lunches to school and back.

I drove a school bus for many years and I noticed the kids very often wore their packs with the main compartment's zipper wide open, leaving a gaping hole that the pack contents could (and often would) fall out of. They also wore the shoulder straps much too loose, so the top of the pack would slip down to the middles of their backs. For some reason this was 'cool'. For kids like that, most designs for practical use are probably a wasted effort; they'll use the pack however they feel like using it.

The market segment of packs for kids who actually hike and camp in the backcountry with their parents is going to be a tiny sliver of the overall market. Is that the market segment you are targeting?

If you're just trying to gather background information, you'll get a lot of insight by reading the customer reviews of such packs on the REI, Campmor, and Moosejaw websites. You might also visit the BackpackGearTest website and look for reviews of youth packs.

Also check out the older posts in the "Hiking with Children" section of this forum for a lot of comments about backpacks from parents or grandparents of young children.

Note that I'm talking about wilderness backpacking, not book packs, not travel and certainly not the back yard!

Here's where you lose me - what kind of backpack does one need for backyard camping? Perhaps you need to develop an idea of what a backpack is for so you can focus your research more effectively. Carrying things into/around the backyard doesn't sound like a job for a backpack - while it's possible to use one, a box or wheelbarrow or bag would work as well.

If you truly want it to be kid friendly for backpacking it must be light weight. Most I have found that are popular with backpacking parents (ie, Deuter Fox 30) are over 2 lbs which is unacceptable to me so I've been focusing on daypacks.

My criteria are:
Under 1 pound
Must have some kind of hipbelt
Must have side pockets for water bottles (I detest bladders)
Enough volume to hold most of his personal gear
Must be adjustable enough to grow with him 2-3 years

I ended up purchasing an REI Super Nova for my smallish 5 yo son last year. It's flaws are:
* Volume is too small (they claim 10 L but that must include all pockets) as it could barely hold his rainjacket in the front pocket and sleep clothes, gloves, hat and fleece blanket and jacket in the main compartment. He likes it because the design looks similar to my pack (which weighs about twice his, 28 vs 14 oz).
* Can't fit 1 L bottles in side pockets. 20 oz bottles barely fit.

His total pack weight has been about 5 lbs, sometimes 6 while he carried a full bottle. We'll manage with it again this summer, but it's getting the boot after that. The only viable step up I see is the REI Tarn 18. It's over a pound, but looks like it has superfluous stuff I can remove to get it close. Appears to be larger, but it's obvious they're including the extra pockets since the Flash 18 has significantly larger dimensions (and no exterior pockets).

In all honesty, I will MAKE his new pack so I don't have to go through this frustration (or cost). Good luck on your project.

For my 5 year olds, I bought a Kelty Starfish a while ago and like it alot. The main reason is fit. It is sized right for a 4-6 year old. I only put in a water bottle, rain gear, gloves and snacks. Maybe a fleece hat, or sun hat.

For the OP, what age group are you targeting? For me, if they are 4-8, they carry a very small pack, sized smaller than normal school bags, with minimal stuff inside. When they are about 8-10, they get a slightly larger frame pack with clothes and sleeping bag. At 11-12, they get most of "their" stuff in a properly sized frame pack (basically clothes, sleeping gear, and food). At 12-15, they carry all their share (I add cooking and shelter weight). At 15+, I start giving them my stuff to slow them to my pace.
Each age group requires a different pack with different requirements. Of course, fit is the most important of all.

Reading over this thread, I get to wondering abut pursuing a modular approach to equipping a bunch of rapidly growing sprouts- something that would start out with a very small volume for the really young and that could be augmented as increased capacity becomes more feasible.

Perhaps a <8oz carbon frame could be used as the base, similar to what Mr. Clark has built (out of arrow shafts IIRC - shown somewhere on that other light backpacking forum). Then you just attach different shoulder and hip straps and bags as they grow.

ETA: I like his front pack idea too for balancing the load and keeping weight off of the shoulders, though it's unconventional and could take time to catch on.

That is probably the best approach for a family with only one or two kids.
For me, it is a little different. When my oldest son (second child) was 4.5 yrs old, I bought him a kelty starfish and took him backpacking. When his brother was 4.5 and he was 8, I made him a larger pack, and the starfish went to his brother. The next year, the oldest boy got a Kelty Jr Tioga, the other got the same starfish, and I took my two daughters with a similar setup. Since I would use all the pack options at the same time, then I need different packs completely. I try and buy a quality pack for the older ones, and hope it makes it through the younger ones. The starfish has done this exceptionally well, and will be passed down one more time.
But, like I said at first, if you only have one or two kids....
I would think the best option would be to get a small external frame that would adjust to fit between 8- 12 year olds. Then attach a top pack that is small enough for a 5 year to wear without the external frame. A stuff sack with a sleeping bag can be strapped to the bottom.

I, like finallyME, is working on this problem. I have a 9, 7, 5, and 2 year old. The five year old (who will be almost 6) will join the 9 and 7 year old this summer.

I have a CamelBak similar to the currently sold scout; the youngest (5-7 year old) has always used that.

I bought a Deuter Climber for kid 1 when kid 2 started coming. Kid 2 now loves this pack; kid 1 won't wear it b/c she wore it once when it was poorly adjusted.

Kid 1 is now probably the top end of your target audience; at 9 and 60lbs, she can carry a load (if she chooses) and now needs to. In fact, the pack I think you are trying to build is the niche from 7-11 years old, when we parents have to limit their weight to about 10% of body weight, and the kids are still going with their parents. Pack weight has to be as low as possible to solve this problem.

The Deuter Climber has more than enough volume to solve the problem. The issue is comfort, weight, and adjustability. IF you can build a comfortable pack weighing less than 2lbs that can adjust to fit a 1st-5th grader weighing less than 100lbs, you've solved the rest of the problem.

If you build a prototype, I think that finallyME and I each have test subjects who can tell you what they think.

Really? I wonder, but maybe so. Be careful not to cause skeletal problems by having kids carry too much weight before their bones and joints are developed. That can lead to a lifetime of misery.

That's exactly why the normal 2 1/2 pound kids' pack is way too heavy. If a six-year-old kid can carry only 6 pounds, why should almost a half of it be just the empty pack?

On the other hand, kids do need a pack with good structure, with a supportive frame, padded straps and hip belt and load lifters. The pack makers could eliminate the super-heavy coated nylon and use lightweight materials like Dyneema. They could also eliminate the multiple pockets and zippers and gewgaws and just have a simple basic pack bag with a couple of outside pockets. It could still have a design or other logos or be made of brightly colored fabric. That way, a pack such as the Deuter Fox 30 (excellent kids' pack except for its weight) would be almost a pound and a half lighter. How do I know? I took one (not a Deuter but an REI kids' pack on closeout) and cut off all the gewgaws, zippers and other extraneous tuff, eliminating almost a pound. Using Dyneema instead of bomber nylon and simplifying the design would eliminate close to another pound. A one-pound kids' pack is far more reasonable.

Yes, I know what kids can do to packs--but only if you let them. I taught my four children to take care of their belongings, and they have in turn havetaught their children to do the same.

Putting too much weight on a kid, or using a non-supportive pack, can also lead to the kid's refusing to go out any more, too!

Same old rants I've made periodically in the "Hiking with Kids" section, but I thought I'd bring them forward again.