Fire cult sillyness

I'm reading "A Snow Walkers Companion" a book about Canadian camping with canvas tents with wood stoves. This is a very long quote so I will paraphrase it.

"Stoveless campers have only metabolic heat from food and mechanical heat from muscles to keep them warm, thus they have to carry a lot of heavy food. Campers who spend 6 to 10 hours a day in a heated tent need less food, thus they have to carry "drag" less weight."

What she means is that if you have a forty pound tent and stove and chop wood, you save food weight and thus have a lighter load. Is this twisted logic?

Is this any smarter than saving weight by not carrying more down?
Jim

Right now I'm using my wood stove to heat my house because my furnace finally died for good and I'm still waiting for bidder #2 to show up. Up until today, the weather for the past week has been below freezing, although we haven't had the strong winds out of the Columbia River Gorge that usually accompany such weather.

This week-long experience of "roughing it" with the wood stove leads me to another question to add to Jim's--what do you do about midnight when your stove fire burns out and the tent gets cold? Run out and get more wood to build up the fire? Or cuddle up and sleep soundly in your -40* bag?

I don't think I'd dare take either less insulation or less food just because I had a stove along. Phat, you use a stove in winter, and you have real winters where you live--what's your take? I'm sure you don't use a canvas tent, though!

That is pretty funny Jim. Did you buy the book, or get it from the library?

I am still trying to figure out the insistence on 100% cotton duct. I understand the properties they want, but I bet a cotton blend has those same properties, with less weight. My army fatigues are cotton/poly. They block the wind, are very rugged, weigh half as much as cotton duct, absorb half as much water, and are just as spark resistant. In fact, it is common practice to burn all the loose threads on your BDUs with a lighter. That always melts the thread, and never the fabric.

Just remember Jim, when someone has been doing it successfully their way for a long time, they aren't too keen to listen to outside advice.

From what I have read, those that run a stove in the tent, generally don't run it all night (for safety). They usually sleep in -40* bags. They only run the stove when they are awake.

I've been to a seminar put on by the Conovers. I'm more of a visual person and their system makes more sense as they explain it and you look over their gear. Their system isn't ultralight, it's not their style.

Jim, I think that is accurate, but not useful information. If your goal is to spend the winter in a tent base camp in the woods then they are correct.

If you are moving each day then the information is not useful.

I've never been out in winter long enough to consider hauling my stove with me, but if I did I'd probably go with a setup from these guys:

https://www.kifaru.net/TIPI2009.html

Have to confess the idea intrigues me.

Cheers,

The Connovers pulled off a two month, unsupported trek through remote areas of Quebec some years ago. Their methods are not for everyone, but their methods are suited for more than a simple basecamp trip.

I would think spending 6-10 hours a day in a heated tent would save food weight. BUT that will be offset and more by the need to chop wood all the time. So in the end I think the food needed would be the same with either strategy.

If I was sitting around in a tent, hot or otherwise for 6-10 hours a day I'd probably be eating for most of it out of boredom.

Dtape
I think I'm with you, if I sat around in a tent I'd eat MORE!!!

Anyway do those tents have windows? If not what separates them from camping in a Winabego? Like gee here we are in our Winabego in Yosemite valley watching tv by the heater...

I go for the view and the snow.

Which by the way brings me to another point (sneaky huh?) Pyramid shaped tents do no do well in heavy snow fall because the side load up. I spent a lot of time in canvas tents when I was a boy scout and if the snow melted on the outside, wouldn't it start to drip inside? We always had a rule NEVER TOUCH THE SIDE OF A CANVAS TENT IN THE RAIN, at least no above your own sleeping bag.
Jim

It is true that, as they say, if you chop wood it warms you twice! Once while you're chopping and again when you burn it.

I remember the time my parents decided to try late fall camping with an 8'x10' canvas tent and a "sheepherder" stove. In order to do this they had to add an extra pack horse! My mother learned to bake awesome biscuits and even yeast bread in the little oven! But she was able to do the same on a campfire, using stainless steel pie or cake tins instead of a dutch oven.

I've seen some folks get along quite successfully winter camping with a pyramid tent. It does require quite steep sides, though, and occasionally some midnight shoveling during a really heavy snowfall.

Me? I've given up camping in the winter. It's not so much the snow and the cold but the long nights we have here above 45* latitude. I can't stand spending so much time in the tent! From mid-October to early March, I stick with day hiking.

The Connovers made an eight sided tent out of very thin canvas. I think the original version of their book inlcuded plans on making one. I assume they treat the canvas somehow for water repellency as I believe they also use canvas tents for summer canoe trips.

Mouse, I can understand why cold or rain might drive one into a tent, but why dark? Surely the inside of your tent is the darkest spot in your campsite?

Follow-up question: what would you be doing if it wasn't dark, and might the addition of stronger lighting in your gear allow you to enjoy the same activities during winter months?

Mouse, Zaldude,
I too hate the long nights, I'm sure thats why the Canadians like a stove and candles. Its no fun laying in a small confined tent for half of the day. I do have a Xcursion lantern that runs off the Xfuel cans (internal fuel bottle of its own that is charged from a larger bottle)and it seemed to not suffer from cold, however the heat and light (and carbon monoxide output is very low, but it is cheery. When I started snow camping we would put on our "space suits" and dive into snowbanks and crawl under the snow. Now I tend to leave home around 11:00 pm in the dark, ski in by headlamp and pitch the tent so I'm probably in it by 12:30 and then I spend less time in it.
Jim

OM said: "what do you do about midnight when your stove fire burns out and the tent gets cold? Run out and get more wood to build up the fire? Or cuddle up and sleep soundly in your -40* bag? "

That would be no problem for me. I have to anwer the call of nature several times a night anyway. May as well stoke a stove while I am at it.

Hoiwe

I've spent a lot of time in a wall tent in subzero weather. The answer is that you *don't* try to keep the thing going all night. it is not for keeping you warm while you are asleep.that's what your sleeping bag is for. The stove keeps you warm when you are not asleep. (and ensures the condensation dries out of your sleeping bag, etc).

The stuff about eating less is a giant crock. it's not a a weight saver. You're completely right about that, well, maybe not in the right case. My packable tent and stove weighs 5 pounds total - stove is three of that.. - still 5 pounds is a lot of food, and the kind of extra food I take in cold weather for extra food is, well, shortbread, and bacon,and chocolate, and all sorts of high calorie high fat wonderfullness My usual dead of winter menu is my summer menu with extra soup, chocolate, shortbread cookies, hot chocolate mix, and scotch!

Real Winter OM? With the wind chill on Sunday here it was -58C. Real enough for ya?

Actually, I quite enjoy deep of winter. if the weather isn't foul I sit outside, usually with a campfire. but often I want a little shelter to cut the cold. I spend much of the dark hours reading by candlelight. I do like a tent stove for this I tend the fire, read, melt snow, and sip tea in comfort until I'm sleepy

I shouldn't complain--your winter days are a lot shorter than ours!

Geez, I'd be freeze dried and mummified by that in just couple hours

Ya'll are tough enough up there, that's for sure!

Snow People

Well, my view on it is a bad evening of slowly feeding sticks in the fire while snug and reading a good book or two, after a bad day of wading though snow with a big bag of gear, is better than a good day working and sitting on a couch in front of the boob tube.

Well, actually I've heard it wasn't as bad as we all thought up here. The newspaper told us we were the coldest place in North America:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2009/12/13/12141366.html

But I've heard by reliable sources that the article was since refuted by Journalists in the States, who proved that the coldest place in North America on that day was actually Tiger Woods's house. None of us up here are gonna dispute that claim

Now that is Funny!!

I mean, even Tiger would have to laugh a little bit at that. Maybe not now, but in a few years...

I don't know about that. I heard that at one point, it got pretty damned hot at Tiger's house....sabre11004...

I would be inclined to agree with that. If you have been using gear or even "methods" that work and are "not broke" so-to-speak, why fix them. As we all know that what works great for some might not work at all for others. It is a very personal thing. For instance, phat takes a stove into the woods. I would never even think about taking a stove into the back country, but you know what? It seems to work just great for him and I am sure that it works great for others too. It would just take too much of the enjoyment out of it for me, but for phat, he is into it and it works well for him so why should he adjust anything about his stove. Hell, if it works leave it as is and let it roll. To each his own and I agree with that wholeheartedly...sabre11004... phat