combine summer sleeping bag with bibs

As many of you contemplate your first winter/snow camping trip, you are probably stuck in the rut of where to get special winter gear. Since your early trips should be to a place with an easy retreat, you may violate a whole bunch of rules that will keep you alive if you are much further afield. Like you can wear cotton sweat pants, wool/cotton blend long underwear and 3 hoodies. If your "summer bag" is rated above 30 degrees you may want to double up another light sleeping bag, or if it is rated maybe 20 degrees you can sleep comfortably in it wearing your sweats, at maybe 10 degrees depending on your personal metabolism. By wearing a large piece of your insulation inside your sleeping bag, you are covered in the event that you have to get out of that warm bag and go out into the cold. The caveat being - do not go out and get wet and then jump back into your sleeping bag - wear rain shells if you have to go out into the rain.

Insulated bibs aremaybe the first piece of winter clothing to get - to compliment your winter coat - making a uniform thickness of insulation over your whole body. A huge coat and no leg insulation isn't the same...
Jim

I don't have bibs, but I do have a pair of insulated pants - GoLite sold them a few years ago - and a couple of down parkas, one of which Jim has seen (same one in my photo).

Jim is right about an easy trip and exit. Yosemite is perfect for beginner winter campers. You get the experience without any real risk. As Tom Bodett used say in the Motel 6 ads, "once you turn out the lights, all motel rooms look the same" and that is true of snow camping. Up at Badger Pass, once the day hikers go back to their cozy hotel rooms or cabins, you are out there by yourself and the skills you need to eat and sleep comfortably are easily practised within a short walk back to the car (if you consider 2 miles or so, a short walk).

Tom is a pretty experienced winter guy by now - atleast hes learned a lot of things that maybe don't work so well... Actually though Tom isn't a beginner by any definition and when he says 2 miles - I never went in 2 miles for the first 3-4 years - about 200 yards from a snowpark behind a row of trees is adequate, thatway getting to your car in a hurry is easy. I've had some epic 2 mile slogs through freezing rain/sleet/snow in Yosemite getting back to the car and if I had been wearing cotton I would have been in deep doodoo. In the badest places, you need the best gear, but winter camping near your vehicle does not require specialised camping gear as long as the weather is ok. Some times you can find open outhouses and camp near them...

Bibs also help keep your kidneys warm and if you bent over under a waterfall and had your rain coat and rain pants separate and got cold water down your back and into your pants - bibs would avert that - and yes I was being photgraphed under an icey waterfall in the winter at Vikings Holm Lake Tahoe wearing my new goretex outfit.
Jim

Uh...Jim. Are you a member of the Polar Bear Club or something? That experience sounds cold and wet by any definition.

But on the on-topic side, you all have sold me on getting winter overalls. A cold lower half is no fun.

I do want to get some bibs, but not the insulating kind. Every time I go snowboarding with normal waist pants, I get snow down my backside. I am hoping bibs solve this problem.

Jim is right, I have learned a lot, quite a bit of it from him.

By 2 miles in, I mean 2 miles down Glacier Point Road and about a half mile or so down the trail to Dewey Point. The reality is that I could get back to the road under the absolute worst conditions possible if I had either skis or snowshoes (which I did). There are trip reports on each of my Yosemite trips in the archives, depending on how far back they go these days.

One year, I didn't have my winter tent and the weather was really awful-mixed snow and rain. I wasn't far off the road, so I packed up my gear, stashed most of by a tree and hiked out back to my car. I then drove down the hill, back to Oakhurst, spent the night at a motel, drove back the next day and hiked back in to pick up my gear. I know, sounds really wimpy, but a good night's sleep was worth it. The next day was beautiful. After I hiked back to my gear, I got out my stove, made myself some lunch, then hiked back to my car.

Another time, it snowed a lot and I didn't think I could ski out with my sled, so I skied back to the ski lodge, rented a pair of snowshoes (since I only had skis) and skied back to my gear. I snowshoed back to the road with the sled, switched to skis and skied back to my car.

My point is that I got the full experience of winter camping without any real risk. FYI, my tent is a 5 pole, 2 door winter tent similar to a Trango Assault. There are pictures of it in my trip reports. With my tent, gear, clothes and food I had, I could withstand the worst possible weather in Yosemite at my location for about 5 days, if it got down to that. Even though I was technically by myself, I never considered myself in any danger. There were usually a few day skiers or snowshoers around for part of the day. Of course, once they left by midday, I really was alone, but that was kind of the point.

BTW, it's Sunday afternoon and I'm watching a Denver football game-they just showed a shot of some buffalo in a nearby park-with snow on the ground. Winter is on its way.

finally
bibs will help keep the snow out. Is your jacket a "technical ski jacket" with a waist level "snow skirt"? The snow skirt is pretty nice when you're taking a lot of high speed spin drift . While I'm at it - my ski jacket is called a randonee jacket as it was designed by marmot specifically for randonee. It has double front zippers should one fail, pit zips for ventilation, zippered pockets high on the breast so as NOT to interfere with waist level harnesses, a waist level snowskirt, adjustable neck closure, elastic bottom closure, internal pockets, detachable hood and 2 layers of 3 layer goretex. Its what they call bombproof and it weighs only 28 ounces. Anyway a technical ski jacket costs 4-5 hundred dollars but thats what you get and its not really very good for anything else because its too heavy compared to a generic lightweight shell. I mean I have a 15 ounce packlight shell with a lot of features but I wouldn't feel as good about betting my life on that jacket in EXTREMUS.
Jim

I bought my Burton jacket before I was married and threw down $350 for it at REI. It is over 10 years old now. And, yes, it has a snow skirt. There is no way I would spend that much on a jacket now-a-days. It is pretty heavy, so I don't take it camping much, only when I am practicing falling down the mountain trying to stand on a board that has a slick bottom.

Finally
Those of us who like to fall down mountains in various manners, understand the need for bombproof gear. (and helmets) I understand there is an aversion to nylon suits in Europe because you can slide right off a mountain wearing nylon, whereas wool sticks to the snow. (even if its moving fast???)
Boarding stuff is really heavy, but here in central Oregon the girls show how they tough they are by boarding in tee shirts and heavy pants.

It took me so long to learn to fall off a mountain on 2 waxed boards that I'm skipping the snowboard, however my solomon Screams are double ended "trick skis" that are up swept on both ends and they do not "carve", instead they act like a snowboard on each foot. Turns are initiated by twisting the two skis under you, they will simply "spin" to the (hopefully) desired angle of attack. Snowboards look to me like too long holding one back breaking position.
Jim

My brother gave me his helmet when he moved to a no snow area. So, I have a helmet as well, which helps. He also gave me his waxing kit so I can wax my board. I told I don't want it any faster than it already is.