Greenland Trip Documentary

Posted by: TomD

Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/08/09 08:57 PM

Great story-you can see the first part of a documentary online, about a cross-Greenland trip, see the gear list, etc.

http://www.projectinlandice.com/projectlog/?p=237
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/08/09 09:24 PM


That's a honkin' big hilleberg! smile
Posted by: alanwenker

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/09/09 11:44 AM

Tom, something tells me you're about to toss off California for a trip to the arctic. Thanks for the link, lots or reading to be done.
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/09/09 12:35 PM


Well he could always get nice and cold up here with no polar bears to be bothered with smile
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/09/09 12:58 PM

Alan, Not quite that far north, but I find these trips really interesting. They make my little trips to Yosemite seem really tame.
Posted by: Rick

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/09/09 05:31 PM

If you come up here I'll take you on a winter trek to the Boreal Forest or the James Bay Lowlands.
We'll access a location by train and spend a week walking the wilderness of Northern Ontario.
Bring nothing but your personal gear. I'll have kitchen, tent, shoes, sled, and anything else we may need.
Or perhaps we can get something going with someone from WinterTrekking that is from Minnesota
Not this year, but next.
There's an offer for you.
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/09/09 07:35 PM

Thanks for the invite Rick. A trip on the Budd Car? Very cool. They have something like that in NZ where the train will drop you off and pick you up.

I would like to meet you and some of the other Wintertrekkers. Maybe by then I will have some traditional winter clothes. I'll start saving my pennies for the trip. I have cold weather gear, but not the kind for the really cold stuff. I've been out in -10C or maybe a bit colder, but not down to -20C.
Posted by: alanwenker

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 12:11 AM

Sign me up for the trip; winter 2010.
Posted by: finallyME

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 12:22 AM

Hey Tom, since following your link to the wintertrekker forum, I have been looking for a cotton anarak. Well, when I went to the local Army Surplus, they had some canvas anaraks for $9.99. It is made of the same canvas as Dickies/Carharts/etc. I would guess 10oz stuff. They even had one size that was XXL. I also picked up a wool blanket and my wife sewed me a jacket. They had wool pants from the Canadian Army for $25, and they had the army mittens with leather palms, cotton backs and guantlets, and a spot for your trigger finger for $10. crazy
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 12:56 AM

Alright Alan. An expedition to the Great White North. Anyone remember the McKenzie Brothers?
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 01:38 AM

That's a real score. Let us know how they work out. The anorak that Empire Canvas sells cost about $250 or so. We've got a few surplus places around here too, so I think I should start checking them out. There are some Anoraks from the Swedish Army as well, but they are hard to find. Remember the old WWII movies showing the Finnish ski troopers fighting the Germans? That's what they were wearing.

The idea, for those who haven't visited Wintertrekking is that in really cold weather, cotton breathes better than high tech fabrics. Since it doesn't get wet,except from sweating, the adage that "cotton kills" doesn't apply. No cotton against the skin or as insulation, but as outerwear. The Wintertrekkers camp old school in subzero weather with lots of gear and in comfort, the antethesis of what this site promotes, so I feel a bit like a heretic promoting them, but they know something we don't-how to survive and thrive in the outdoors in really cold weather.
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 12:08 PM


If you got canadian surplus woolies for $25 that's cheaper than I can get them here. IN CANADA.. grrrr..
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 12:10 PM


I grew up living 10 blocks from where most of the bob and doug episodes were filmed - most of SCTV was done in Edmonton for the first seasons. The last few moved to toronto.

Posted by: alanwenker

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 05:01 PM

Anyone for beer and donuts?
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 09:46 PM

Rick
Do you mean the winter of 2009-2010?
If so I'm game.
Tom D?
Midnightsun?
Jim
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/10/09 11:34 PM


At least it's northern ontario - they have
trains to drop you off - and lakes to walk on smile
Posted by: bmisf

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/11/09 01:20 PM

Cool - sign me up too!

We were down to -24 C in Yellowstone in early 2008, so I'm ready any time...
Posted by: Rick

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/11/09 06:59 PM

Yes, 09/10. Mid February through early March are good times for winter travel. About 2hrs more daylight than now and temperatures are a little warmer in February / March (-8C/-22C) compared with December / January (-11C/-25C). The other significant difference is the potential sunshine. It increase from about 62hr in December up to 153hr in March. This is not to be confused with daylight. This is when you can actually see the sun. Moosonee, Ontario
I can't believe the interest. The whole time I'm secretly searching for a hot, dry, dessert location to go for a walk.
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/11/09 08:40 PM


Skis or snowshoes rick?
Posted by: Rick

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/13/09 05:50 PM

Snowshoes.
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/13/09 08:00 PM

Rick,
What in the world are you doing in Mooseone? Its an Indian town isn't it? I found you on the google Earth and checked out the area. Wow that's way up there, its even smaller than "inpolars" town where the reindeer people live. How do you get there? Jump out of amail plane? crazy
Jim
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/13/09 08:18 PM

Originally Posted By Jimshaw
Rick,
What in the world are you doing in Mooseone? Its an Indian town isn't it? I found you on the google Earth and checked out the area. Wow that's way up there, its even smaller than "inpolars" town where the reindeer people live. How do you get there? Jump out of amail plane? crazy
Jim


It's the Ontario Northland Railway - Moosonee is the northern end of it - Ontario has really cool trains in the northern bush where there are basically *no* roads (As opposed to where I'm from, Alberta, which has roads and trails thanks to oil and gas exploraiton).

Basically you can get off/on the train in the middle of the bush.




O
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/15/09 12:23 PM

Jim, Yep, I'm in. That's how this whole idea got started with Rick inviting me up North. Time to start collecting more cold weather gear.
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/15/09 10:37 PM

TomD

I know you've been around the block a couple o'times and you have had a chance to work on your gear a lot. I think it might be a good idea to listen to the locals, and then sprinkle salt on what they say. Wool is really in up north for traditional reasons and because it always performs the same - sort of good, not great but consistently, especially over time. You can say the same about canvas and leather.

I really think it will be more critical to avoid moisture build up in those temperatures than the Sierra temps we are accustomed to, however balance moisture accumulation with the period of time we will be out.

I'm suggesting maybe a low tech day wear and a high tech camp wear for lazing around. Your big coat will be good, and down bibs would be awesome. Feet are gonna be a problem. Worse in day boots than in camp perhaps. Also I'm sure our gloves may not be adequate and we will need 40 below sleeping bags.

I did spent one night out in -40 degrees bivouacked at the base of the Eiger in Switzerland when I was 19 and I survived it - I think - oh no - maybe I died that night... crazy

Jim smirk
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/16/09 02:51 AM

Jim, I agree with you all the way. My gear is no way near adequate for those temps. The wintertrekkers practice traditional camping. That is their style and the focus of their website. However, they do use big down parkas when "cold camping" and mostly use the old school outerwear to avoid tearing up their down gear in the bush or getting it too close to a fire. My big parka would definitely be coming on this trip-along with my insulated pants.

Boots are a big issue as you said. I haven't figured out what my choice would be for those yet. I've got time to think about it. Maybe Baffins. A -40C bag for sure. I will look around to rent one rather than buy one. The WM bag is almost a grand. I could probably get one from someone like RMI or AMH.

Big mitts or gloves, also on the menu. Plenty of time to sort all this out. Meanwhile, I am planning a short trip to Yosemite for next month. I will probably go up to Crane Flat on the other side of the Valley this time. I've emailed the rangers about where to camp already, so I have the info on that.
Posted by: alanwenker

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/16/09 10:07 AM

-40F at the base of the Eiger? I didn't realize it got that cold there. The temps in Minnesota have been rough this week, -20F in the mornings (Twin Cities) and below zero for the daily high. The temps make for a brisk morning walk with the dog. Oddly enough you get used to the cold. The next +10F day and no wind will feel downright balmy by comparison.
Posted by: JAK

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/16/09 10:47 AM

After doing some tests in -18F to -24F last night,
I'm slowly warming up to the idea of a down coat. laugh

We are getting about as cold as we get here, we might see -30F.
It's very humbling.
Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/17/09 07:49 PM


When I'm out in that, I bring my down coat for lounging in. I do the whole wool and fleece thing while moving, with a shell or anorak, but when I stop I tuck into my stay-puff marshmallow man 800 FP down coat. Down coats suck for moving around in, but once I stop, give me stationary comfort. It's also nice to wear to bed as a bit of a sleeping bag extender, and gives me the ability to keep a hood on my head while thrashing around (I'm a sleep thrasher) in a looser bag or a bag done quilt style. (It's no a substitute for a sleeping bag so don't start into that thread smile






Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/17/09 08:40 PM

Phat, check out the Finbar hood. I saw it on wintertrekking. Here's a link. Supposed to be just the thing for "thrashers."

Finbar hood


Posted by: phat

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/17/09 10:35 PM


I tried the canadian army version of same one year in hunting camp. didn't like it. I like to thrash and leave my bag a little more open, the hood doesn't do enough for me in the winter, and a parka is dual use.
Posted by: alanwenker

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/19/09 11:44 AM

Phat, you're right about moving in a down coat, far too warm even in really cold weather.

I'd forgotten about the Finbar Hood. I met Brother Finbar (he teaches at a college in Minnesota) at a winter expo some years ago and Ann Bancroft had just used the hood on one of her trips. The hood would make a nice piece of kit for hanging around camp and even wearing inside a bag with the bag's hood closed for extra insulation.
Posted by: TomD

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/19/09 07:42 PM

Alan, the hood comes off my big TNF parka, but I don't think I'd want to try sleeping in it.

In really cold weather, the wintertrekkers who are pulling heavy sleds or toboggans seem to be wearing just some fleece or wool with an anorak over it, even in -20C or colder, until they stop. Their goal is to avoid sweating and soaking their clothes from the inside, so to speak. That's why they wear those cotton anoraks-because Goretex won't breathe very well at those temps and sweat won't transpire through the fabric like it will through cotton.

NOTE-I am talking about trekkers who are using cotton shells only in sub zero temps, not cotton for insulation, base layers or for use above freezing as an outer garment (jeans, hoodies, socks, t-shirts, etc.) This is based on my reading on a deep winter camping website, not personal experience. I don't even wear cotton briefs when I go camping in winter.
Posted by: alanwenker

Re: Greenland Trip Documentary - 01/21/09 05:55 PM

How many firms make a legitmate -40F down bag? Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, Mountain Hardwear, Marmot, ID. Any others? I'm certain there are more, but my guess is these bags have to be few and far between as they are such a niche item.