Have you helped anyone "see the light"?

I was just curious how many of you have actually converted anyone to lightweight backpacking and how it happened?

My Dad has followed along with me in dropping weight but his first backpacking trip was with me and he was doing what I did. He is a common sense type and right off the bat was looking through his stuff prior to going out and chucking unnecessary stuff.

Several years ago I subscribed to backpacker magazine and remember how they used to represent UL'ers as some kind of freak show. Every once in a blue moon they would feature some article about "seeing the light" and then in the very next issue you would see the same editor carrying 60 lbs of uselessness through the Pennsylvania "wilderness"

Lately I've been making a more concerted effort to drop weight and have been trying to convince a friend to drop his pack weight by getting rid of all the just in case junk. I hope to shock him this summer with my lighter weight gear, spring in my step, and no loss of comfort. He thought I was walking his booty into the ground before....

I am hoping he will see how much more enjoyable it is to be able to look at the scenery instead of suffering and staring at his boots as we scramble over peaks and passes.

I haven't helped anyone see the light because UL backpacking isn't a religious cause, at least, not for me.

Even when I was a young dolt, I could see that light was good. I don't ever remember thinking "How wonderful! Here is something heavy to put into my pack!" The limitations have always been availability and cost.

If I went out once a year I'd probably be less conscious of the contents of the pack simply due to economics.

It's not a religion. People who live their lives working and going to football games and hardly ever backpacking look at ANY backpacker who goes every month and sometimes for weeks at a time like they are crazy, too - it doesn't take ultralight pack weights to manage that.

What's convincing some of the folks in my hiking group is not me, but their knees and backs. But some of the old timers still cling firmly to double wall tents and huge stoves.

Skippy
I'm glad you feel moved by your pleasure with going light, but its not a universal thing and you are getting close to edge of lighter smaller snob-ism. Going light also means not carrying a lot of mission hardware. Those who climb, intense photographers, fishermen, etc, people who go to DO SOMETHING other than just hike will be happier carrying a heavier pack.
Your is is but one path Grasshopper, not necessarily the Universal TRUTH.
Jim

I don't know that I've "convinced" anyone per se. I don't actively pursue people but people come to me. Lots of people email me asking very well thought out and educated questions so obviously, they've done their research before asking me for help picking out a pack or a stove and have already made the decision to go light before contacting me.

I understand Skippy's point and I go light where I can so that I can carry the specialized gear that Jim mentioned.

It makes the trip much more enjoyable. Some of the new cameras are really helping to lighten up photography. I'm not much of a backpacking fisherman in this area. It's more canoeing around here so you can carry heavier gear if you want.

My challenge is getting my Scouts to "lighten up".
Of course, I do put rocks in some of their packs.

I know of nobody who I hike with who hikes as light as I do, and I *don't* hike very lightweight. (or at least, I don't think so). I have helped a number of people get into the sport, with gear that doesn't weigh a ton.

I prefer to help people "see the light" of just getting outside and enjoying themselves. if having a lighter pack helps them do that comfortably and safely, great.. But you can get a newbie a very long way towards being comfortable start with such things and a little experience with just reasonable lighter choices of
mass market gear that aren't totally stupid.

Far more important is teaching them how to use them and be comfortable in them (both in terms of physical comfort, and the mental comfort of knowing that, well, they can handle it and it will be fun and not suck, even if it does rain).

But as far as convincing *existing* hikers to "see the light" - well, only in small doses. Most of my experienced friends pick up on a few of my "tricks" some not so much. I still hike with friends who carry whisperlights and heavy water filters. I think they're nuts, they think I'm nuts, and we're very happy that way

Jim, you are so right, but maybe I am going lighter so I can get other people in the game. When I take my Dad I carry all of the food, shelter, cook gear, etc. I also tend to end up carrying a good amount of other people's gear as they have overpacked or are out of shape for the trip we're on. Maybe it's a desire to have self preservation. One of my friends insists on carrying a 3 man tent that weighs an awful amount. Guess who ended up carrying his food bag and sometimes his pack? I am not lightweight by this forums standards but I'm no longer a heavyweight.

And in bicycling lingo..."Keep the rubber side down".

Well said!

Just one more reason for me to go lightweight is I've had some little "accidents" that have resulted in 2 knee reconstructions and a bonus surgery. So far it hasn't been a problem but why risk it?

I have, but not intentionally. Like Phat said, mostly it's been a case of persuading by example: they see that my load is lighter, mostly because I'm carrying less stuff; they ask why I don't have Widget X or Garment B, and we talk about it. Sometimes, next trip, they leave it behind, too. I remember one buddy who asked me how I liked my tarp-and-bivy setup (this was in the days before solo tents weighed the same as a tarp and bivy.) He asked, "But don't you miss having room to sort gear?" I answered, "Well, I really don't have much gear to sort..." Then we discussed his "sortable" gear: why he brought it, whether he needed it (not whether I needed it), and could he leave it behind next trip. Then we planned a trip where we looped back near the car on the second day, so he could start without it and pick it up later if he needed it. (Turned out he didn't.)

I've also helped a few folks go lighter, perhaps without them knowing it. As a recovering gearaholic (not too much "recovery" so far), I periodically pass lightly used gear along to others; frequently these are people new to backpacking who are trying to get a set of gear together. Because my choices are skewed toward lighter gear, their first setup is also going to be skewed that way; in turn, their methods and techniques will also tend to skew toward light when they add to, or replace, that initial set of gear.

It's never been an overt campaign as much as continuing evolution of our styles.

I personally don't see the rationale in NOT being weight conscious. It gives me a way to feed the trail addiction while not on the trail, and it makes my experience when I'm out that much better.

I can understand financial constraints keeping people from cutting weight, as of course the law of diminishing returns is in play...but when people choose a heavier piece of gear that is similarly priced, and equally useful baffles me.

I went on an overnight this weekend, and took no more than 17 lbs of total weight on my person (incl. clothing and shoes on me) and really couldn't see how someone could need more than that. I brought a good 1/3 lb of food back even. This was all with a relatively cheap and by no means "ultralight" big three/four.

I had people around me where I camped that easily had 40+ pounds for the same exact trip I was making...that's baffling to me.

Tam
"but when people choose a heavier piece of gear that is similarly priced, and equally useful baffles me."


"equally useful" is whats evading you. The UL equivalent of a heavier piece of gear may not be equally useful. If you are on an easy does it trip in easy terrain your UL gear may be adequate, but a lot of places that gear would be shredded and not function at all, or it may simply not be adequate for the user to complete the trip they went out to enjoy. I always say - take the lightest gear that allows you to do what ya come for. This "lighter is always better concept" is based on lack of experience.
Jim

Trust me, I'm well aware that there is a difference...but in my neck of the woods, there is really not a whole lot of the extremely technical types of hikes that would warrant "tough as nails and heavy because of it" sort of equipment, and in general, most people I see with "heavy" gear just don't pay that much attention to weight.

I'm not an ultralighter by ANY means, I'm simply weight conscious, which to me are two very different things. I count carefully every ounce, but I don't carry pieces of gear that any person who takes care of their stuff should be "shredding" under normal use, in order to shave weight.

Mostly it is because they went to the local outfitter and were sold the most expensive gear in the store and were sold a lot of gear that they did not need. The other reason is that they have seen pictures of backpackers with giant packs and tons of stuff strapped to the pack and thought that is the way it is supposed to be. In some case they do not want to admit that they were suckered so they just keep the stuff.

I have found that the main reason folks lighten up is because they are getting older and realize that if they are going to keep doing this they are going to have to lighten up. At 20 macho is good. At 50 reality trumps macho.

I'm young, and will gladly sacrifice looking "macho" to have a better trail experience.

I agree though, that for the more....ahem..."seasoned" hikers, it's less of a choice than a necessity.

I have "converted" 3 people so far (in the 3 years I have been UL). The last one was a the greatest testiment and story of all. But who knows how many I have influenced through my light wieght backpaking seminars that I give from time to time as per a request of some one that had bumped into me or was refured to me. This year I have been asked by a local scout group to work one on one with them so that will be fun.

I push LW and UL as much as I can, especially out on the trail.

I'm in the process of converting JimShaw into ultra-lite hammock camping ....does that count?

BF

Nah, that's just part of your duties as a member of the hammock mafia - don't you remember from your initiation?

I'm not really the evangelical type. I don't go out of my way to convert others to my way of hiking. I will answer questions, when I am asked.

I sometimes get a fair amount of interest from the other hikers I meet when I tell them I am out for a week and plan to hike what seems to them a huge number of miles (maybe 10 or 11 a day), but my pack obviously isn't a monster and I don't look like a superman (not hardly). I am sure I've planted a few seeds of reconsideration.

phat'
I have a one pound tent, a 3lb 4 ounce two person tent and a 4lb 4 ounce 2 person expedition tent. Bigfoot wants me to carry 4 pounds of hammock this weekend. Lets see BF - how is that converting me to UL?
Jim

You'll note that even as a hammocker, I'm usually the first one to speak up that hammocking is *not* lighter. Remove hammock, sleep under tarp.. that's lighter

I learn something from everyone I hike with. Sometimes it is what to do and sometimes what not to do. From phat I learned to ditch the pot lifter and use wool gloves. I am on my second pair of gloves, but I think I have got a keeper. The Ursack is looking pretty good too.

I have no desire to convert Jim Shaw. A DAM inside a Bibler is a sweet kit on alpine trips.

skippy:

I'm not sure I've converted anyone but I've sure tried. When I proselytize on OUL (Orthodox-Ultralightism), I've noticed that after about 15 minutes that most of their eyes have glazed over and they've got their head on auto-nod. Soon after that and they're telling me they've got to deliver some old TV Guides to their grandmother that I know passed away the year before.

I did have some luck when I took three neophytes bp'ing last fall on a piece of the CT. I outfitted all of them with gear used during my gradual evolvement to lighter backpacking, with the son of a friend getting the raw end of the deal by inheriting my oldest, heaviest gear. I, of course, had the newest & lightest of my stuff. We divided up the food and water equally, and I had them lift and try on the different packs at the trailhead.


Evolvement of OUL Man, from early stages to modern times (six months ago -- I've got a Neoair now.) Unfortunately, in example, OUL Man's brain capacity did not increase with drop in carrying load.

My three companions on the hike were shocked by the difference in weight, along with doing some jealous grumbling over how much lighter my pack was. But by the end of the hike they were saved.

kevonionia,

I like your picture. I recently was talking to a friend of mine that I'm planning a trip with and he brought up the fact that he is not going to be bringing his weather radio as it is just dead weight. The conversion has begun. After all of these years of packing with him I never even knew he carried a weather radio. I wonder what else he has been holding out on me?

Just remember: if you convert him, you have to consider him "us" instead of "them" (the Pottery Barn doctrine of UL: You break it, you bought it.) Or, as the toast I wanted to give (but wifely intervention prevented) at my daughter's wedding: "Jeff, she's your problem now."

. . . that he'd always snuck that wx radio in the bottom of your pack and took it out on the last morning before you exited the trailhead?

This tread is good entertainment,
Jimshaw I like this line,"This "lighter is always better concept" is based on lack of experience."

Kind of makes up for the rocks I've been putting in his....

Isn't 'lighter is always better' what the emporer was told about his new clothes

I don't see it that way at all. I have been trekking for about 40 years give or take a few "off" years of not doing it at all. I don't think that my traveling lighter has any thing to do with neccesity. I think that it has more to do with effeciency. The reason that I say that is that I get the same things done, with better gear, trekking that I did 40 years ago, I just do it with about half of the weight.....sabre11004...

I have a friend who I bet packs a lighter pack than all of you. When you get to the campsite you find out he plans on using your stove, tent, food, etc. And I mean etc. His pack has a sleeping bag and water.

I assume two things:

1. You're using the term "friend" very loosely.

2. He never camps with someone twice - unless the arrangement beforehand is that the someone knows they're going to be mooched from, and is OK with that.

It also sounds like he's the perfect person to carry the rock collection you just decided to start.

Your assumptions are correct. He is still a friend that I would take a day hike with but I will not go backpacking with him. He'll go anywhere with anyone if it means being outdoors (good) but he is a tight-wad (bad).

Skippy,

One of the reasons backpacking is irrestible to so many people is because it really allows for individual expression of concepts and experience. We don't need to mess with that. If you have some really good ideas, just go about your business and people will take notice.

It's funny but I went out and bought a Sierra Club type cup last week because it is so nostalgic. My friend has always used one and the sight of it really hit me.

Of course Sierra cups are available in titanium these days!

While I am not a UL guy, I have become a LW (lighter weight) guy out of necessity first, and common sense second.

Gone are the days of a 55lb pack with multiple back-ups of most of my gear. That style of packing (for me) is better left back in my military days.

I lurked on this forum for many many months, reading and absorbing information. I have a backpacking buddy who is teetering on the edge of UL, and another buddy that we are converting to the LW style.

My thanks to all of you for sharing experiences and experiences with all of your gear.

In December we went to Richland Creek in Arkanas. I told the 4 guys it's only about 5 miles but it's rough go light..yet it's going to be cold. 20 degrees.

Sunday morning at about 6:00 am I could hear them around the fire talking about how they were freezing all night. I slept like a baby... the difference was gear and experience.

3 in tents one in Hammock. I told the young man in the hammock he was going to freeze..he did. GRIN! He had his underquilt and pad from Hennesy.

I got out of my bag and put on my down snowmobile suit and went out and laid on the ground next to the fire...that extra 2 pounds paid off for a wonderful weekend. The rest of the guys are going for better lighter gear...

Bought some Crocs to replace my heavy choco's for river crossings. It's a work in progress. Lighter is always better unless of course it's not better. GRIN!

I have a Swedish Army Cook Kit. Weighs in at 2 lbs 5 ounces. Bomb proof... doesn't fall over. Works in the wind and cold and doesn't burn the food. My other 2 light weight stoves stay home.... because lighter isn't better in this case.

Ever heard of a Luxuary lite cot? Weighs 2 lbs and keeps you 1" off the ground.. in a over night all night rain..that extra 1 pound keeping you off the river flowing below your tent... prices.. I dont' bring it all the time.. Sometimes I do.

If I was going to go 4 weeks at a time.. I would hire a shirpa. GRIN! 8 backpacks a year with Royal Rangers (church boyscouts) over the past 22 years has given me some insight on how to enjoy going on the next trip. At 53 I no longer wonder what will work... I know. GRIN! Unless it's new..then I gotta try it. I enjoy Backpacking my way. Other's ways not so much!

Mark Jones

Hey Mark, some of the coldest nights I've ever spent around here were at Richland Creek. That's a great wilderness area, lot's of cool stuff to explore there.

Where did you go? Last year I explored the Big Devil's creek hollow and the limestone bluff above it. That was a lot of fun. There are some really nice shelters in that bluff, and some very cool old hand cut millstones sitting on the bank of Big Devil's Creek right below it.