What's wrong with an external frame pack?

A lot of folks I'm talking to seem to think external frame packs are just too old school and useless.

I currently have a pretty expensive internal frame pack, kind of a para-military style which works fine, and is built like a tank.

But, I am being wooed by the added functionality of an external frame pack. Particularly, the Alps Outdoorz Freighter Frame and bag.

While I'm not wild about a top loading bag, and this bag looks to be nowhere near as heavily built as my internal frame pack, I surely would get some use out of the frame for humping in extra water, fire wood, etc.

Are there any external frame holdouts out there who would like to share their experience?

My experience with an external frame pack was that it zigged when I zagged and pulled me off balance frequently. It was downright unsafe. My first outing with an internal frame pack was a revelation--it moved with me instead of against me!

A lot depends on what kind of load you're carrying, of course. I don't carry the kinds of bulky loads you describe. My internal frame pack weighs just under 2 pounds and is a lot more comfortable than my old external frame Kelty which was almost 5 pounds.

Your mileage may vary.

Mouse, you nailed it. Not fighting the pack was pure joy.

For me, the low point came the day I had placed my nearly-new Thermarest, in an official T-rest stuff sack, horizontally just under the top flap of the pack, and started walking. (Remember, the packbags were smaller than I-frames, and you lashed the tent and sleeping bag directly to the frame.)

About half a mile later, I stopped to get a drink, whiich entailed taking the pack off to unzip the side pocket where the water bottle lived, and noticed that my Thermarest was...well...gone.

I backtracked about a quarter mile and found it dangling by the stuff sack cord from a tree branch, which had neatly snagged it without my feeling it - because I had ducked to go under and the load towered over my head.

As soon as they became available I got an internal frame, where everything fit neatly inside, nothing towered over my head, my center of gravity lowered down where it should be, and the pack moved with me when I swiveled or ducked.

But, I will admit that an e-frame handles really heavy loads, and in some cases fit people better; the signature trampoline back is also the best ventilation I've found. I'll also admit that there is a high-tech internal frame pack out there right now: the Osprey Atmos/Exos series. It marries an external frame (including a trampoline back) with an internal frame pack bag, and succeeds fairly well at putting the center of gravity lower. But it does still pull against you.

If you want to try one, do so. But don't be surprised if you quickly go back to your internal.

I used an external frame pack for over 40 years and it worked well. I still use it if I have to carry a lot of weight (for example if I have climbing gear). I used it in all conditions, including off-trail and over some technical terrain. It is a matter of loading it correctly, having it fit perfectly, and practice. When scrambling, put the weight mid-back, centered and close to your back. Use a sternum strap. The hip belt design has a lot to do with the stability of the pack. You may have to try several different designs before you find one that works. Any pack, internal or external frame, that is heavy will pull me off center when climbing, so I aways carry a line to haul the pack if needed. The advantage of an external frame pack is that it carries heavy loads more comfortably. If you use an extension bar up top, it places the load directly over your center of gravity.

I have pared down my external frame pack to just under 4 pounds, including extension bar. I use an internal frame pack when I can keep the weight under 35 pounds.

So there is nothing "wrong" with an external frame pack but it does take more practice to learn to use it properly. In fact, I did three 2-3 week winter mountaineering trips on skiis with an external frame pack loaded to 60-70 pounds (when I was much younger!). If however you can keep your weight low, internal frame packs offer a lighter option and are a bit more friendly to beginners.

Thanks for the replies. Good insight there.

I mentioned in another thread, I bought a Jansport Scout e-frame for my son. He handles it fine, but I have it very well balanced and everything cinched up pretty tight. Also keep it on the lighter side as much as possible. He seems to handle it very well, with no shifting of load.

My internal frame pack weighs in at pretty close to 80 lbs loaded. Additionally, I carry the tent over one shoulder (I feel really off balance if I put it on top of the pack, and the food bag over the other. Not sure how that would feel on an e-frame with the weight moved further out from my back.

The weight I can't cut a lot, because I am hiking with 3 kids. But, since most of our campsites wind up being within a few miles of a trail head, it would almost be easier for me to hike in, dump our packs, then head back to the trailhead with the freighter frame to haul in the tent, water, food, etc.

It would have additional utility for hunting, and carrying firewood.

Thank you , Daisy!

We, too, hiked many miles with external frame packs, and never really had an issue with them. We now have internal frame packs, but more because that's what's available these days. And we are carrying 20-35 pounds max...

Excellent thread. I think all the key points are already covered, but as a lover of my old Kelty, there are a couple of things I'm moved to say.

First, I have several thousand miles on the Kelty, and the only thing that was ever a problem was that I wore through the waist belt and replaced it with the new style (which I don't think could ever be worn through). Second, as several posters have noted, experience varies. I not only never felt I had to fight the pack, even when I took 70 lbs (38 of them being camera gear) over the top of Katahdin, but always felt that I was more stable with it. And the ventilation I miss.

I carry a frameless pack these days because my gear would fill only a corner of the Kelty, and 26 lbs is a really big load these days.

But if I had to carry eighty pounds, there is simply no way I would even attempt it without a substantial frame. My guess is that if you have been carrying this in an Alice or similar, your first time with a frame will blow your mind, as they say.

Furthermore, if you scrounge around a bit, you should be able to find a frame dirt cheap (saw one in very good condition for $4.00 at St Vincents).

best, jcp

I carry an external frame. Here is a picture of it.

I bought the frame at a thrift store for $5, then cut it down and made my own suspension. With just the frame and suspension, it is at 3 lbs.

Here is another setup, for when I backpack with my kids. I had to carry stuff for 4 kids in this picture. And two of the kids, I carried 95% of their gear. So, 3 sleeping bags, two tents, 15 lbs of food, all the cooking gear, three sets of clothes, etc. This was probably around 75 to 80 lbs. There aren't many i-frame packs out there that have the volume needed for this amount of stuff.


I like externals...especially for beginners, and poor scouts. I have found that if you compare packs in the same cost range, that externals generally fare better. If you are unwilling or unable to spend the money for a quality sleeping bag (I am talking $100 of more), then get an external frame. Otherwise you aren't getting that sleeping bag inside.

Now there is a configuration I had not thought of, FinallyME.

I like your idea of leaving the backpack bag out of the picture, and just using several small rolls/sacks/duffels.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Incidentally, I am a Kelty fan. I don't think that Alps is a bad brand, but when I compare it with Kelty, Kelty usually wins.
Kelty also makes a pack similar to the one you linked to. Just something else to look at.

Another Kelty fan here. I go back and forth from frameless, internal frame, and external frame depending upon what I am doing. I say use what works for you.

FinallyME is a creative dude, that's for sure!

Hmmm...

http://www.mollymacpack.com/pack.html

Interesting system there Lori. Molle gear is certainly cool, but my goodness is it expensive.

Can't remember the name, but someone who used to post here regularly made and sold a very lightweight external frame that worked with crossways bags just like that Mollie system (but I think much lighter). Does anyone know if those frames are still available? (or for that matter, how well they worked?)

Best, jcp

I always thought Ex-Frame packs were great for youngsters and new Scouts: they can be easily reconfigured to match a youth's growing body, and have a small cargo area so they're harder to overpack.

Maybe you are thinking of Luxury Lite .

There is also zpacks.

There is also a member on this forum (DJ) who makes his own super light external frame, but he doesn't sell them. He can usually get them under a pound.

The MOLLE Mack Pack is expensive because it is hand made by a guy in his garage. Actually, it is pretty cheap once you factor in material costs, and labor. His labor costs must be pretty low.

And there is always the gearskin...

http://hikinghq.net/gear/moonbow_gearskin.html