first time down bag questions...

Hey yall,

Im fixing to buy a new sleeping bag and Ive come to a crossroads. Im debating whether to go with down or a synthetic fill. First off, Im looking for a bag in the 30deg. range. I use a GoLite Shangri-la 1 shelter with some Tyvek for a ground sheet. I also have the optional floor with the shelter I use in the snow. I tell yall this because my Shangri-la is single walled and gets wet in rain, and this of course will cause the quality of a down bag to suffer if it gets wet. I plan on using the bag 3 seasons and buying a warm and lightweight liner for colder winter trips. My concerns are mainly keeping the down bag dry, therefore keeping me dry and warm. Ive never had a down bag before, but I really want one mostly because of the warmth and weight savings they offer. But of course when wet, they are neither warm nor light.

So my questions are...A) how do yall keep the bag dry during snow and rain, especially those who use a tarp-like shelter like mine. B) are there any good waterproof covers for the bag to keep it dry. C)What are some good quality synthetic options comparable to down in weight and warmth.

I would like to buy a lightweight bivy in addtion to the tyvek and optional floor to help keep dry in snowy conditions. so maybe that could help.

Anyway, I really appreciate any feedback on this topic. I tried searching the forum but couldnt find andy threads on this. Folks on this site are a treasure trove of knowledge so hopefull yall can help answer my questions.

Thanks a bunch.

No bag is warm when totally wet, but synthetics can be wrung out and dry rather quickly whereas down remains a heavy heap with no loft for days. I have always used a down bag, even 35+ days with only a tarp and 28 of those 35 days it snowed! You have to be extra careful with the bag- I always pack it away even during the day in a waterproof stuff sack. And you have to take every moment of sunshine as an opportunity to dry it out. I do not recommend down in wet condtions for beginners, but I think experienced people can handle it.

There are much better synthetic bags out there nowadays. The old ones used to be very heavy and bulky- some of the newer ones are nearly as compact as down. Look for a high quality synthetic bag - will probably cost you several hundred dollars.

I also use a single-wall tent and although there is condensation, I have never had it truely drip. I am just careful not to rub the bag against the inside wall. A bivy sack will also produce condensation inside so you still have to air it out often.

I always take a small high quality sponge with me. It is really handy to wipe up condensation.

In the winter I have used a combination of two summer bags- larger outer synthetic and smaller inside down liner. I like the way down really fills in around your body and makes you instantly warm.

And that's a really good answer.

If I knew my bag might get wet, I'd take the synthetic one (we have one of each0> But down is warmer and lighter for the same warmth

You will never regret owning a good quality down bag. Keeping them dry is not that difficult. A good light weight bivy sack (one pound or so) is a good idea in sloppy conditions.

I'll bet you will eventually acquire a decent synthetic bag as well. The combo that WD suggests works quite well and there are some environments - aboard a small boat, for instance - where synthetics are preferable.

All the answers so far are right on point. I've used a down bag in the eastern US forests for about 15 years, and never gotten it wet - so I tend to agree with oldranger; it's not that hard to keep them dry.

I've used an MSR Carbon Reflex 1 double wall tent for about two years now, and never had any significant condensation. I would get condensation in my Hubba, but never a lot, and the two wall design helped keep it away from the bag. (If your shelter consistently generates enough condensation that it drips onto your bag enough to get it really wet, you may want to consider replacing it - and that's whether or not you get a down bag.)

When I still used a tarp, my down bag lived inside my bivy sack, and stayed there inside my pack; I've never stored the bag in a stuff sack. I've always used a rain cover, and never had issues with water getting into my pack. (I even took a dunking in a creek crossing once, and nothing got wet except me.)

I always chose the tarp and bivy combination because I never trusted either one alone in wet conditions. Condensation was rarely a problem under a tarp pitched as an A-frame or lean-to (a weathertight pitch, or a shaped tarp like the Silshelter, were prone to heavy condensation.) With the tarp alone, there was too much blowing mist and rain to be sure of staying dry. With the bivy alone, there was no way to enter or exit without exposing the bag to the driving rain. Using the combination meant that I was always sure my sleeping bag would stay dry, and I used this combination for years, until the Hubba came out and was lighter and more efficient (for me) than the combo.

My experience is heavilyl skewed toward the eastern US. I hike and camp in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, and western Virginia, with occasional trips to Isle Royale. I've never taken a trip into the Smokies or your area, so you need adjust my advice for that.

Hey folks,

I really appreciate the feedback. Ya'll guys know your stuff! Im either going with the Marmot Arroyo 30deg.(down) or the Mountain Hardware Ult. Lamina 32deg.(synthetic). Wight difference is about 4oz. Either way Im picking up a Seierra Designs Baffin Bivy for extra protection. Anybody have opinions on these??

A few last questions...A)I've been told that synthetic doesnt last as long as down as far as durability, retaining warmth, etc. Ive heard it loses its loft therefore loses its warmth quicker than down. Is this fairly true in ya'lls experience for those who've used both? B)Does a bivy add any warmth to a bag? It would seem that it would half to add a little. If so, what kinda of increase are we talking, 5deg? 10?

Thanks again for the feedback, ya'll rock.

It seems to me that a bivy adds warmth to a bag, but I have no real data to back that statement up. The fact that I am around to write this statement would indicate that using the bivy and sleeping bag provided enough warmth to survive... Perhaps someone does have test data acquired under controlled conditions.

I have no direct experience with the Baffin Bivy, but that is exactly the sort of thing I have used in the past.

I would recommend getting a down bag first, but either will work. As recommended, getting a synthetic bag sized to fit over the down will allow you to use the two in combination.