Saying hello and in need of some help for a newbie

Greetings to everyone,

I hope that everyone will be able to help me; i ve been lurking for the past couple of days around a few forums and decided to join this one.

I have little experiencing camping, mostly because I ve been doing it on and off instead of regularly which extends to many other disciplines such as hiking, car camping, mountain climbing...I still have some of my old equipment from my scout days as well as my travel gear.

Bref, what I want is help with camping. Right now I live in northern Virginia so I see myself doing 1-3 nights camping in the Appalachians this fall and winter at this time.



My apologies for the long post, but it seems like people want details.

I recently bought quite a few items with the recent REI and LL Bean sale as well as before the summer for my travels that I have not used
yet so I can return them - these items I will put returnable.

I have lots of equipment from other hobbies and activities,
Photography is a big hobby of mine so I need to take that into account.


the 2 items I need help with are the tent and sleeping bags

TENT / SHELTER
Need a two person tent
returnable REI quarter dome T2 tent
http://www.rei.com/product/761893#prodSpecs
and footprint
budget under $350 if possible.



SLEEPING
Have sleeping bag for summer
cocoon silk mummy liner
returnable Adventure® Medical Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy 3.5oz
Neoair reg. mattress 400g
returnable Neoair stuff sack 14g
returnable Big Agnes insulated air core pad 680g
very old blue foam pad

exped pillow 89g
thermarest pillow 255g

budget under 350

BACKPACK
Gregory baltoro 75 (though I m not getting it back before xmas)
returnable Osprey Aura 65 (spent two hours in the store walking around with weights, it fits me - better than the male counterpart...)


TOOLS
ranger swiss army knife
returnable brunton 9020G compass
fox40 whistle somewhere
GSI Cathole Sanitation Trowel
fire starter 27g


MISCELLANEOUS

fenix ld20 flashlight with batteries 115g
Alite monarch chair
returnable thermarest camp seat 340g
Oakley black polarized sunglasses
returnable Sea to summit extra large dry sack 7.4oz


WATER
returnable steripen opti
Returnable platypus 1L
nalgene widemouth 32oz
nalgene widemouth 16oz
Sigg
have a camelback type pouch somewhere

COOKING

Sea to summing long spoon
fork


HYGIENE
microfiber towels of all sizes
campsuds


PHOTOGRAPHY
I can put the info if needed


CLOTHES
I believe I have everything needed for that right now.

What you have will work, with a few improvements.

I'm a little confused about the sleeping bag...depending on the weather, you'll need something good to 20 degreees or so. I use a Sub-Kilo bag from REI, but they don't sell those any more. You should be able to find something like this pretty easily .

But it sounds like everything you have will work. It's basically good stuff. The tent is fine.

You'll want to be careful with the weather, because you may not want to be out in a full blizard with this equipment (or any other equipment, for that matter!) but this stuff will keep you basically dry and warm. And that's all you need.

You don't mention a stove or a pot--I think you will have to get those. And I don't take nalgene bottles, they weigh too much. 32 oz soda bottles work better. I'd leave the chair at home,

And I will be that you take way more clothes than you will need, which will make your pack heavier than it needs to be. But you'll learn.

In fact, I would suggest that the first thing you do is try all this stuff out. You don't have to go on a epic trip, or even a three day backpacking trip. Just take your car to a campground somewhere and try to live for a day or two with what you have in your pack.

What you'll find things that you don't need...and you can leave them at home next time.

BUt I think you are in good shape. All you need to do is use it!

Welcome and hello. I've heard good things about REI's 1/4 dome and the rest of that line. Why a footprint? Use a lite ground cloth if needed, I use polycryo from Gossamer Gear. An emergency bivy? If you have your tent, bag and raingear why a bivy? Sounds like you will not be going solo. If you are only using your summer sleeping bag, you only need one sleeping pad, assuming you are going where it will not get too cold (freezing) or snowy. A pillow, use a stuff sack and put clothes into it. Why a dry sack, use garbage bags or a garbage compactor bag for clothes or other gear you are wanting to keep dry in your pack. Nalgene bottles, those are un-needed, use bladders. If you need a stand up water container recycle a Gatorade bottle unless you think you need the Nalgene to use with the Steripen. You have a lot of small stuff that quickly adds up to a lot of extra weight. You could shave weight by getting lighter versions if you can afford it and if the additional gear is needed at all. My two cents.

Welcome! If you haven't already found them, there are lots of excellent articles on lightening your pack and on gear selection listed in the left-hand column of http://www.backpacking.net/, the home page of this site. Especially look at the 27-lb., 7-day gear list.

Another good site for gear selection is Mark Verber's website. Lots of ideas for gear, from the latest technology to ultra-low-budget alternatives. Also tons of links to reviews and other sites.

I suggest your next purchase be a postage scale that will weigh to the nearest 0.1 ounce. Weigh everything and make a spreadsheet, using the above-mentioned gear list from this site's home page as your model. This is not a one-time deal--with the spreadsheet you can regularly analyze your gear, determine the effects of adding, changing or deleting any item and print out a handy checklist before every trip.

I just need one question answered, and I think it will help others to help you as well. You say camping, what does that mean to you? Are you driving to a spot in the woods, and sleeping next to the car (next is anywhere from 1/4 mile to touching)? Or, are you planning to cram all your earthly needs into a backpack, strap it on, and carry it at least a few miles?

I will be hiking, no car camping.

i wouldnt say im an ultralight hiker but i really like my gear set up thus far.

tent: big agnes fly creek UL1. list 299. i bet you can get it much cheaper.
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/ProductFinder/Tent/filters/56

bag: western moutnaineering, versalite. LOVE IT! 6'er list for 440. but you could find this a bit cheaper also.

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/ind...mp;ContentId=20

together, even at list price, they are only about 50 bucks over but you would have a pretty good set up! i know i like mine.

Thanks for the answer. Your original post seemed to say that you were car camping. At least to me it did. This is a backpacking site, and we could probably assume, but I just wanted to clear it up to make sure we were answering your question better.

I finally had time to look through your list. Some items are a little vague. I hope you've looked at the gear lists and other references I gave you. They are good models for organizing your own and for organizing your gear.

Shelter:
Tent--Quarter Dome probably a good one to start with. Return the footprint. They are strictly a salesperson's gimmick. I never use one. If you insist on having something under your tent floor, get a thin plastic painters dropcloth and cut a piece to fit (make it a couple inches smaller each side). This will work fine for snow, where you probably do want a ground cloth.

Sleeping:
Sleeping bag: What Balzaccom said! Check out sleeping systems on the Mark Verber site I gave you earlier for possibilities. Be sure you have a warm enough pad! The NeoAir is rated to 32* so gets quite cold below freezing. The BA insulated air pad will probably take you down to the mid 20s. You'll want a fairly thick closed cell foam (CCF) pad on top for supplemental insulation for a total R value of at least 5 for cold weather camping. Try the pads on the floor at home for a night or two to be sure you can sleep comfortably on them. Pillow--I use my pack or a stuff sack and stuff inside the clothing I'm not wearing inside the sleeping bag. There are also lightweight inflatable pillows. Silk liner adds no warmth to a bag, maybe 1-2* at most--anything more is advertising hype. When I used one, it took me forever to untangle myself in the morning, so after a few days I ditched it. It most certainly won't turn a summer bag into a winter bag. Look at the Mark Verber website I referred you to for ideas. Forget the emergency bivy--fine for dayhikes but you will already have your shelter and sleeping gear with you when backpacking. If you use it to extend a summer sleeping bag, it will become a sauna inside.

Pack--try to get a supportive, comfortable pack that weighs less than 4 lbs. Other things (such as comfort) being equal, closer to 3 lbs. is better. Wait until last to get it so you know it will hold and support the gear that you will put into it!

Tools--take the smallest possible knife. Mine weighs less than an ounce. Ditch the trowel and use a tent stake (what I use) or even just your boot heel and a stick.

Hydration system:
Nalgenes--ditch; they are several times the weight of a Platypus or even a recycled Aquafina or soda or Gatorade bottle. Steripen--I couldn't work the thing. It has a reputation for being tempermental in cold weather. If you're snow camping, you'll have to melt snow for water anyway, so you might as well boil. Otherwise use chlorine dioxide tablets. Sigg bottles (if that's what "Sigg" refers to) are far too heavy.

Cooking--How are you cooking? Pot? Stove? A spoon is sufficient as an eating utensil.

Ditch the camp seats. A small sit pad (now there's a use for that blue foam pad; cut it into 2 or 3 equal parts) is sufficient.

Hygiene--one small microfiber towel per person is plenty. Or buy a package of Handi-Wipes at the supermarket--that's what I use. Lighter and dry lots faster. If you're using soap, use tiny amounts and be really careful to rinse at least 200 feet from any water source--soap (even biodegradable) kills aquatic life. Get some of those tiny dropper bottles from GossamerGear.com and decant just enough soap for the trip. The same for any other liquids (toiletries) that you take.

Clothing is where people tend to overload. I take the same clothing in winter as in summer except for an additional layer or two in winter. My outer layer (rain jacket and pants) is the same both winter and summer. That not only keeps the cost down (mostly the same clothing for all seasons) but lets you regulate your body temperature more efficiently. It's really important not to get sweaty while you're moving (you need to keep your clothing, especially your insulation layers, dry at all times) and not to get chilled when you stop, so you'll be taking layers off when moving and putting more on when stopping multiple times during the day (what I call the onion principle). Read the Mark Verber article on clothing for more information about layering. I take enough layers that if I wear everything all at one time I will be comfortable in the worst possible conditions. The only "spares" I take are extra socks.

I hope this gives you more ideas. Read the articles I suggested. Especially read up on winter camping (articles on this forum's home page and posts in the winter section). Get out on short trips--preferably car-camping with your backpacking gear, so you can bail out to the car heater if things go wrong--until you have more experience. Then go to camping no more than a mile or two from the trailhead, again so you can bail out easily if necessary.

Good luck, and feel free to ask more questions once you've read those articles! (There's no such thing as a stupid question; the only stupidity is not asking it!)

Thanks for the input.

I listed a lot of equipment because I already have and used them for hiking(emergency bivy), traveling (eg steripen,silk liner), car camping, sleeping over at other people s places, setting up day camps (eg. when I go backwood paintballing with friends). I m not bringing everything, just bringing the appropriate equipment depending on my needs.


I got the footprint because I have bad memories of not using one, when I was a boy scout. But then they were not like the tents I m looking at.

Speaking of tents, I think I ll return the footprint and keep the REI quarter tent or go for the scarp 2 depending on if I go out this upcoming weekend and how much I want to spend. With 2 people the weight is split in half so in my mind its not too bad.

Cooking,
I essentially have no experience outside of making a campfire and grilling food over it. I have lightweight utensils and thats it.


clothing,
I m set, really. I spent half my life in the alps hiking, skiing/snowboarding, among other activities during from summer to winter in all kinds of conditions. I know with my clothes I am fine in -20 celsius or in blizzards . Love the eVent jackets btw.

bacpack
the osprey weighs 3lbs 9oz, I know it fits me, I also like the mesh backing - I found that my back got a lot less wet from sweating. On the other hand it is on the heavy side.

tools
Anyone have a suggestion for a nice lightweight knife ?
I do like and used quite a bit the saw on my SAK, and the scissors though only while traveling, and corkscrew and ...well the SAK has been useful.

I have a postage scale already, used it to weight individual stuff before my big summer trip. My photo equipment weighed almost as much as my regular pack for the european part of my vacation!

Hydration
which model steripen do you have ? mine has worked fine, but it wasnt in the cold / high altitude. Read that the latest models rectified a few weaknesses.

Other
I do like my creature comforts, and right now I m hoping to convince other people to come camping more often but I don't see that happening if we "rough it" too much.

Dry sack, It was useful in the pacific while at the beach. I could swim, bring my stuff along and not worry about the electronics for example. I used it for white water rafting, and was hoping to try canoe camping one of these days.

Sleeping
Still trying to decide on the sleeping bag/quilt etc..
Have not tried the BA core, but I love my neoair.

the silk liner was helpful while staying a hostels, combined with the neoair I had people accept me more easily.




I hope to put up a revised list specifically for lightweight camping soon.

The LD20 is a relatively big flashlight for lightweight backpacking. Great for navigating off-trail in the dark maybe but unless you're doing that, it's overkill. You could save several ounces with a smaller light. I know it's just a few ounces but a few here and a few there soon add up to pounds.

OregonMouse and I disagree over the NeoAir, I have used mine down to the single digits on unfrozen, dry ground and in the snow using a blue pad in temps to the 20's. I use a silk liner (JagBags) to mostly keep my bag cleaner, for me it adds some warmth, mostly from drafts. Be careful cooking over a fire, some times of the year may not be safe to do. You're like me, that's how I started bping, the stoves were an unknown quantity as I had no knowledge about them except for seeing the old Coleman suitcase types. I now have a collection of stoves that were used in the '70's that I have accumulated since Dec.