REI bags - how close to rating do they perform

All

General beginners question:

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE do REI sleeping bag ratings (+20, 0, +40 degrees F) run as advertised?

Know that some companies (Mountain Hardware) are reputed to do better than rating.

Understand and acknowledge the limits of the specified bag rating system - I've read Tom D's (among others) articulate comparisons to the more accurate European system.

For those who will want to know, I tend to sleep cold, and plan accordingly.

Conditions of use are in the Blue Ridge in the winter.

Steadman

some companies (Mountain Hardware) are reputed to do better than rating

More than likely is that you are thinking of Western Mountaineering, rather than Mountain Hardwear. WM's reputation for excellent sleeping bags is pure gold.

If you sleep cold, then REI bags prior to their switch to the European warmth ratings are all I can speak to. They tended to be a bit less warm than their ratings, but not too badly. For instance, I have slept in their SubKilo (rated +20) in temps quite near to +20 (w/ hard frost inside the tent in the morning), and I felt warm enough, but I was wearing a full suit of 100 weight fleece inside the bag.

Just watch for what the rating is! A lot of American manufacturers have not adopted the European EN 13537 rating system, and their ratings therefore range from somewhat accurate to purely fictional. The EN13537 system has several different ratings, and there is a lot of difference (at least 20* C) between the "Comfort" and "Extreme" ratings. On American bags where the ENetc. rating is given, I've so far noticed only one rating listed, and the manufacturer seldom states which one it is!

Here is an explanation (page down to "How to Understand...":



There have been some problems with the testing for these ratings, and they're not always that reliable. Most of us are not mannikins! Here's an example. In addition,


I personally would want a bag that was at least 5 degrees F warmer than the "Comfort" rating! And I normally sleep in long underwear, socks and a hat!

Oregon Mouse

That is precisely why I'm asking about how solid REI's bag ratings are because they are not on the EN 13537 system.

The bag I'm looking at is an REI Sub Kilo: http://www.rei.com/product/780902

Which supposedly is a 20 degree bag.

I'm cross comparing to Campmor's down bags.

NOT interested in a Western Mountianering or Mountain Hardware bag unless I can get it on sale - $400 is a little more than I'm willing to spend for my rate of use at this time.

The SubKilo is a discontinued model sleeping bag, but REI's newer bags do use the EN13537 system. What they don't say is which rating they are using or what the other ratings are. Because the SubKilo is a discontinued model, there are awesome prices on it at REI Outlet, especially with this week's additional 20% off coupon (expires 6/17). I got one for my grandson (not used yet) last fall with the last 20% off Outlet coupon. I'm thinking of getting the women's model for my granddaughter, although she's not ready for a down bag yet (still the occasional accident at night). I just assume that, as with most US-made bags, the rating is 5-10* overstated. At the current prices ($128 for the regular with the 20% off coupon, and free shipping), it's certainly a far better buy than the Campmor bag--better quality down, for starters, and therefore lighter for the actual warmth and probably longer lasting.

In other words, if your budget isn't up to a high-end sleeping bag, I'd go ahead and order the SubKilo while that coupon is in effect--you can't lose, IMHO! You can always add clothing layers to get it to its rated temp or a little below. It would, however, not make a good winter bag if you expect temperatures below 20*. Even with our mild Pacific NW climate, I'd want a 10 degree bag for winter.

Most American bag manufacturers plus Montbell, refuse to use the EN13537 ratings. I hope we can convince them to change their minds! The system isn't great, but it's a lot better than the fictional ratings of many manufacturers! With Montbell and Western Mountaineering, it's no big deal because their ratings are well-known to be accurate (or, in the case of WM, conservative). The rest, though....

Sub-kilo is my only down bag, and I like it fairly well, especially for what I paid for it (ended up being like 150 shipped). It was right on its stated weight, packs down to nothing, pretty good zipper, etc. Like I said, for the sale price, it's a great bag.

It's a smidge snug through the corners if you're broad shouldered, but it's fine for me (5' 10" 165).

As for the truth of the rating, I'd say it's overstated by 5-10 degrees. I've had it down to just below 30 and was starting to get a bit cool, but still comfortable enough to sleep. Another 5 degrees and I would have been getting uncomfortable. I wouldn't take it to 20 degrees without extra clothing, a liner, bivy sack, etc.

Good piece of gear for the price you can get them at right now. I'm considering grabbing another one and butchering it for a quilt...that's doubtful though.

Just looked at the woman's bag online (for my granddaughter) and it's supposedly a 15* bag. Probably 20-25 might be more like it. I have two more days to make up my mind. For the OP, this might be a warmer bag if it fits ("Tall" for women is up to 6 feet, probably not over 5'10" in actual practice). I still don't think that even a 20* Western Mountaineering bag (which I have) would be quite warm enough for winter camping, although I've had it down to 15* with supplemental clothing. What are the winter lows up on the Blue Ridge?

It's true that with the additional 20% off, it's almost worth it if you just need the down, lol!

I was wondering if anyone had experience with the sub kilo myself. Logged on and answers were already hear. I ordered the long today!It will be two pounds lighter than my old snow lion synthetic at 30 plus years old. I want a wm but cant afford it right now. I hope the rei bag lives up. I am six foot and maybe could have ordered a regular, but reveiws say shoulder girth is a bit tight on the reg. The long has additional girth.Long is a touch heavyer but still half what I was carrying! I just need a three season bag right now anyhow.wish me luck! At 150.00 delivered with tax, a hard deal to beat right now. I have been looking a couple monthes myself.

one thing I noticed, and perhaps it's not unusual with down bags, but after a few outings, maybe 10 total nights of being used, the bag seemed low on loft. It was slow to puff back up when I pulled it out of the bag in the evening, and didn't seem as thick as when I first got it.

I tossed it in the dryer at home on the lowest setting for around 5-10 min, and the loft really seemed to recover. Perhaps this is not unusual, but I thought it might be worth mention. I think most of this is attributable to one night I got hot in the bag, and sweated some. I didn't have a chance to give it time to dry out before re-packing, and I think that might have caused some loft loss. Either way, after a short ride in the dryer, the loft is as good or better than the first day I had it.

I dont plan to compress as much as I will stuff loose into bottom of the g4 pack I am making. I think they all lose a little loft when compressed multiple days.

Sub Kilo came today! It is a very slender bag but will work fine. I am awarm sleeper and will seldom zip all the way unless in gets very cold . I am right at six feet tall and glad I ordered the Long, as a reg would not have worked for me. Weight came in right at two pounds in provided stuff sack. I am going to make a silnylon stuff sack and drop a couple ounces. Weighs half what my old bag did so I am on the right track. Happy Trails

did yours come with a compression sack too?

mine came with a relatively heavy compression sack...doesn't really matter though, as I keep it in a drybag with my down jacket.

It is not a compression sack but a rather heavy 7x15 inch stuff sack. I will whip a sylnylon sack for it however, if i use the g4 pack instead of mountain smith I will just stuff in disposer bag in bottom of pack.

The EIN 1357 ratings are good for comparing bags tested under the same system. One thing to beware of is how companies use the ratings. I've seen bags advertised at a temp that really is the survival rating once you see the full specs.

I have an old down bag, but I know the rating on it (not EIN 1357 as far as I know) is accurate for me because I have used it at the rated temp and below.

Sleeping on a pad or in winter, two pads, plus wearing a base layer and maybe even socks and a hat will help a lot if you are close to the rating temp. I wear a base layer anyway in winter and prefer to sleep in it.