wtb for 3 day trips?

Im looking for some suggestions on what to buy as far as a tent,pack, and sleeping bag for 3 day trips in the big horn mountains during the spring through fall. I plan on using the equipment alot so i would like to to be good quality.

tent- im looking for something in a 2 man. would like it to be light weight, easy to set up, waterproof and well vented if i need to cook inside while raining out. I would like it to be a 3 season tent with a price of $250.00 or less.

for the pack i have no idea what to get or even start with. the item will be pretty minimal. enough food( dehydrated) and water(most likely a camel pack) one spare set of clotes, rain gear, head lamp, small first aid kit, tp, toothbrush soap, deoderant bug spray compass map cheap poncho flint or some type of fire starter and a small single burner stove with a mess kit, and maybe a power bar. iwould also like to have a msaller pack or waist pack that would fit in my large pack after i get my main camp set up and want togo exploring. just something large enought for my camepack of water a power bar compass map poncho and a lighter

For the sleeping bag i would like some small light weight, and warm enought to handle spring throught fall. preferably in a mummy bag. i dont really want to spend over 300.00 for a bag.

any suggestions r great as far as name brands and models or simular products.

See tarptent for tent options, they have several models that would suit your described needs to a tee.

For the pack, for that duration of trips, (for me, most durations) I use a 40L pack. Smallish and lightweight, but for me or anyone who is meticulous about both weight and volume, it's plenty large. Options will really vary on your own preferences, I myself don't like a frameless pack, so I sacrifice a little bit of weight for a framepack, but many others don't share that sentiment.

Sleeping bag is sort of the same as the pack, there are innumerable options, and it really depends greatly on where/when you're going, your physical size, how warm or cold you sleep, etc. The list goes on. There are more options than you can count, and everyone has an opinion/preference. Finding a store where you can try out the fit of several bags helps.

Start with the parent site here at www.backpacking.net

Look in the left hand side.

Particularly, look at

http://www.backpacking.net/18-pound.html

and

http://www.backpacking.net/27-pound.html

Don't focus so much on brands as much as weight.

My 3 day list is in my signature below.

when u say 40L what are we talking in cubic inches?

40 as in Liters, which translates to 2440 cubic inches.

packs are generally listed by their volume, 40 is generally on the small side of things, but it's always been enough for me, because I rarely venture out longer than a couple of nights.

1 liter equals 61.024 cubic inches. For approximation, 60 cubic inches per liter is close enough and is easy mental arithmetic even for this calculator-dependent accountant.

Start with the articles phat linked to above. Read the rest of the articles on that same page, too. They'll give you lots of ideas.

You have very workable budgets for the big three. However the standard reply is to purchase your pack last! Once you have bought all of your gear, take it into your local outfitter and try on a few packs to see how they fit you with the load that you will be carrying. This is not only important for capacity (too big verses too small), but also different packs carry the weight in different places for different people.

For tents, it really depends how you feel comfortable. I personally use tarps-- they are lighter, quicker to set up and take up less room in a pack, however tarps are not everyone's cup of tea, but if you are interested then look at some of Henry Shire's products.

If an actual tent is what you desire, then I suggest you look around on the buy/sell forums because you can often find a Hubba Hubba or BA Fly Creek 2 which are sub 3lb two-person tents for your price range. If you don't want used, then finding a light-weight, two person, quality tent for $250 is a bit of a struggle. I know that REI as a two-person Quarter Dome for $260, but at 4lbs it isn't exactly lightweight.

If that is the case, then you would have better luck downgrading to a solo tent and for <$250 your options open up ten-fold.

As for your bag, for $300 you can purchase a quality 3-season bag. I am not too familiar with Wyoming seasons, but some WM 35/32 degree bags are under $300 (Caribou, Highlite, Summerlite)

I guess the other question is do you want down or synthetic? You can purchase MH Ultralamina +15 bag under $200 or a down Marmot Arroyo for under $250.

Honestly, the choices out there for $300 and under are vast-- I could go on forever naming names. What will really narrow down the bags are: 1) Down or Synthetic and 2) Your size.

Do some research, go to a few stores and see what works for YOU.

what is the big difference between down and synthetic bags? I want a pack with an external frame so im guessing that will really narrow my choices as far as packs go. Also how heavy do i want to go with for a tent? 3lbs at the most? i want something with a floor i know that. i might have to downgrade a one man as you said.

Synthetic bags are generally heavier and bulkier for the same insulating value. Synthetics are a bit better if you get them wet, although any sleeping bag will suck if you get it wet.



Yes it will - but I'd have to ask the question.. "why"



How much do you want to carry? In all seriousness that's what it comes down to. You can get a reasonable one man tent with a floor for about a pound and a half of weight from Tarptent or Six Moon Designs - but it depends on your needs and what you are comfortable with.

I think your on the right track with all of your research, and the suggestions are as well. The only thing I can't or don't understand is your reference to an "external frame pack". If you plan on hiking in any rough country, or any rough trails, the external frame pack will not help your experience. The point being that to hike comfortably over varying degrees of terrain it is essential that your pack be capable of comforming to your movements. The external frame will fight you with this. The new packs with their framesheets, stays, or lack of large frames, will provide all the support you need at the weights you plan on carrying, and will allow you the mobility you need on the trail to keep you moving steadily, and safely! I can't really think of any reason for a true external frame back in this day and age (outside of pure weight carrying circumstances, e.g. hunting) There are many places that even allow you to rent a pack to try out. Put some on and give them a go! And there is a constant parade of used packs for really good prices on all of the forum buy/sell sites. Avail yourself to the technology, its not new, nor is it untested.
Finally, have a blast checking out and finding your gear! Its a great way to become educated and to enjoy trying out new ideas to make your trips fun! At all costs, try to keep an OPEN MIND with regards to what folks are using and enjoying. My packing techniques and equipment has mutated a ton over the years, and have increased my pleasure in the backcountry immensley.

so your saying a down sleeping bag will most likely get ruined if it gets wet?

Im old school and all i have ever used is a pack with an external frame. I have never used one witout one. atleast not on a camping trip so im not sure if i will like them. i guess i would like to see the pros and cons of both

when i think of a tent i think of not getting wet or i would just sleep in a bag outside. i want something if it starts pooring that its not going to come through my tent and get all my $h!t plus me wet. So basically i want something with and excellent rainfly and floor. if i have to pay more than 250 so be it. I dont like buying crap. I guess i would like to keep all my gear under or around 20lbs

Down doesn't keep you warm if it's wet. If you get it wet and it rains for four days, no sunshine to dry it out, you'd have a cold, wet trip. The down will dry out again no problem, you just need to have a way of doing that.

I find that the easiest way to stay dry is staying off the ground entirely - but not everyone is comfortable with a hammock.

I started out backpacking long enough ago that I am probably of the old school. I started doing SAR and carrying loads on some sketchy, rocky trails and I found internal frame packs superior in those situations. Gradually I transitioned to the internals for routine use. From time to time I have used a frame for carrying heavy/irregular loads. They do have a place, but internals rule.

Internals are a bit more finicky and proper fitting and adjustment is critical. I would advise renting/burrowing one and using it on a trip to be sure it is right for you.

Down bags are the way to go. They do require care, but you just can't blithely allow a synthetic bag to get damp either. I have blundered and allowed my down bag to get wet exactly once (in fifty years of use). Synthetics do have a place. I'll bet you will wind up with at least one of each. The sleeping bag is the last place where I want to cut corners and scrimp on quality.

No it won't - but it won't be very warm. It will be less warm wet than a synthetic bag would be, and take longer to dry. No wet sleeping bag works well I use a lightweight down bag. I'm also very careful to keep it dry.



Do you have an old external frame pack now? If so, my advice to you is to buy your *other* gear first, and carry it for a while on a few trips with your old pack. *then* once you have settled on your gear, start trying on a few packs and decide what is comfortable for you with the load and volume you are carrying. This avoids the problem of choosing a pack based on what you think you *might* carry as opposed to what you are *actually* carrying. If you want to keep your load minimal you probably don't want the same pack for a 20 lb load as for hauling out quarters of dead forest creature and carrying 80 pound loads up a mountain.



http://www.tarptent.com (look at the upper left of this site)
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/

and many other options. A decent modern tent won't leave you wet.

Your other alternative is to just use a tarp, or a tarp and hammock.

My own personal experience is that a synthetic bag that gets sopping wet is just as cold as a down bag that gets sopping wet. (This was the same experience in which I learned to select a camp site that will not turn into a lake in case of heavy rain!) Synthetic insulation dries slightly faster, and you won't have to unclump the lumps of wet down. But a wet down bag won't be ruined; in fact when they get dirty, you wash them (carefully) (follow instructions on the Western Mountaineering web site). A wet sleeping bag, regardless of insulation type, will ruin your trip.

You need to make sure your insulation, whether down or synthetic, stays dry. That means your insulating clothing as well as your sleeping bag. You need to keep your insulation inside something that will not leak in case of heavy rain or immersion (people do fall while fording creeks, and I know this one from personal experience, too). Pack covers and stuff sacks are not immersion-proof so don't do the job. You need either a pack liner or dry bags for your insulation (sleeping bag and insulating clothing). Set up your shelter first and unpack your backpack under/inside the shelter (do the reverse when packing up in the morning). Don't hang your sleeping bag on a rock or tree to air out (something you should do every couple of days) and then go off and leave it or take a nap--stay close so you can grab it in case of a sudden shower. And, of course, select your camp site carefully!

In Wyoming (my home state, but the SE part), you definitely want at least a 20*F sleeping bag--at high altitudes you'll have below-freezing nights even in mid-summer. Note that the cheaper "20*F" bags are really more like 30-35*--it's worth paying more for a bag that will do the job.

As a frequenter of the Rockies in CO and WY I would advise against a hammock. Many of the campsites that you will find will either have no trees or no suitable trees for hanging up your hammock. If you plan it right it would work by camping lower in elevation but I have never liked to be limited in where I camp.

From your description just get a lightweight 2 man tent or a tarp tent. My current 2 man weighs 4lbs and can be setup with just the fly and footprint to knock off more weight. It seems like every place I go has mosquitos so I personally like to have mosquito netting.

I'd just take the hammock and a pad, and sleep well when I could. The rest of the time it makes a fine bug bivy while I toss and turn and stare at the underside of the tarp.

I hammock in the Rockies in Canada all the time. You need a couple of 10CM (4 inch) trees - not that hard to find even in the krummholz..

If I *know* I'm going to spend my time completely above treeline, I take a solo tent instead. If I only *might* I often still take the hammock, and then bivy in it on the ground as lori suggests if I end up staying where there are not trees.

But I would *not* take a hammock at all until you know you can
sleep comfortably in one. Try this first:

http://www.imrisk.com/testhammock/testhammock.htm

Then decide yourself.

I have never had a problem with a hammock in the Colorado Rockies. If the weather is good enough to spend the night above timberline then it is good enough that you do not need a robust shelter.

Hiking solo there are more places to hang a hammock than flat spots for tents. It is when you hike with ground dwellers that sometimes there is a problem.

There is a learning curve with hammocks and you should test them and learn about them close to your car just like all gear.

I hammock in the Utah Rockies. Aspen grow pretty high up. In fact, I prefer a hammock, because I usually camp on a slope, with minimal flat spots (a common occurrence in "mountains", surprisingly). Like food said, I usually have to find some sort of flat spot for my non-hammock companions. The spots are never truly flat, just sort of flat. I think I converted (or at least stirred some interest) one of my companions to hammocks.

so what is the pros and cons comparing down and synthetic bags? Im just wondering what makes one better than the other.

When I use to camp alot i was always portaging when canoeing. i never really had to hike that much. just to the next water. i always used a external frame pack and havent camped in the mountains before. I have never used one without an external frame. are non external frame packs that more comfortable than ones with the external frame? do they handle the load as well?

Think im going to go with a one man tent. the one im looking at is around 3.5lbs

There is lots of information out there on the pros and cons of both, but here is a brief overview: Down bags are generally lighter, pack smaller, last longer, relatively warmer, but are poor when wet and are more expensive. Synthetic bags are just the opposite. There is more detailed information on the web.

Personally I would spend extra money and get a good down bag, store it in a dry bag and don't take it out until you shelter is set up and that pretty much eliminates it getting wet and will last you many years.



Internal packs are lighter, they balance the load better, transfer weight more effectively and are less likely to get snagged on things while hiking.

However, if you like your external pack, keep it. There is no need to upgrade, my father in law still to this day uses his Kelty Trekker and is perfectly fine-- put the extra money into a better down bag.

The reason people do upgrade is that it is an easy way to shave 3lbs+ off of their load, but for the time being I would keep with your current pack until you figure out the rest of your gear and have been out into the backcountry to find out what works for you and what doesn't. Otherwise you could end up buying three-packs in a short period of time.



3.5lbs in my opinion is very heavy for a solo tent-- I bet that weight doesn't even include a ground sheet or the stakes.

Others may chime in, but here are a few:

Down is lighter and compresses more.
Warmer than synthetic for same/less weight.


Synthetic is generally cheaper.
Easier to dry.
Can still provide some warmth when wet (i.e. not totally soaked).
Bigger selection and price range.
Can loan them out to others as needed (you generally won't lend out a down bag - at least I don't).

A couple more items on down vs. synthetic: Down, properly stored and cared for, lasts far longer. Synthetic fill loses a little of its loft each time you compress it down to get it into your pack, so it will gradually lose its warmth. A high quality down bag properly cared for will last 15 or more years. The life of a synthetic bag is more like 4-7 years, per Mark Verber's excellent website.

Back in the days when I used an external frame, I always had problems--it seemed to have a life of its own and would zig when I zagged. I took a few falls because of this. An internal frame fits lots closer to your body and moves with you instead of against you--it's a lot harder to get off balance. Just be sure to get a pack that will carry the weight you want to put into it (found on manufacturers' web sites) and that fits you comfortably. Pack fit is almost as individual as shoe fit.

Have you read the articles on the home page of this site that we suggested above? They will answer a lot of your questions!