GPS, waypoints and routes

Hi all,

Went backpacking last weekend and used my GPS with preprogrammed route and waypoints to monitor progress along the trail.

I currently have an old Garmin eTrex Legend.

What I'm wondering/trying to do is the following:
Set multiple waypoints along trail to establish a rough route that can be loaded into the GPS unit (got this part). Then, I'd like to pick the waypoint that is the camp site and have the GPS navigate me along my route to the way point.

What's happening now is if I pick the campsite, it bee-lines me to that waypoint. So a 5 mile hike along the trail would show as a 3 mile bee-line.

If I just select the route, I get ETAs to all the in between waypoints.

I'd like to be able to say: use route A and navigate me to waypoint 10.

Is this possible with this GPS unit? Is this possible with any GPS unit?

Not opposed to buying a different GPS unit if it will perform this function. Ideally, there is a trick or technique I'm missing that will let me do this.

If this isn't clear, please let me know. Seems like this should be a simple thing, but I haven't cracked how to do it yet.

Thanks,
chris.

Not quite sure if I understand your problem, but let me comment anyway... A "route" is what you are needing, but sounds like you are not placing enough "waypoints" to get you there with out being confused by "line of sight". Unfortunatley, I think that that is how the GPS is designed to work. You either have to add to the amount of waypoints in your overall route, or have a GPS that actually shows you real time data overlayed onto your topo map (what I do) and then you can "see" what waypoint you are coming up to along your path. Many times there is a box where you select how many waypoints you want in your route, and/or the distance between them etc. Play around with this feature and see if it helps. But GPS reads like a birds flight, so following a convoluted path isn't really its forte.
I'm using a Magellan Triton 400, with Nat Geo Topo and I preload my map, trail, route, and waypoints all at once. I can see exactly where I am along the route, the path, or on the map depending on what I choose to highlight on my GPS functions. Then I can download any additional data when I get home from my trip as well. Hope this kinda helps...

idahosteve,

So, when you program your route, do you make it for the entire trip length, or do you break it down into the segments you'll be walking/hiking each day?

I guess my problem is I entered the route as the whole path and on day 1, I wanted to navigate to the campsite. But, if I let the route guide me, it shows me distance to next waypoint. Maybe I just need to break the route up into the planned segments and live with it that way.

Thanks again!

Just remember that the bearing and distance provided by the unit is straight line, which may not be the way you will actually travel. This is insignificant if you are on a trail, but may be critical if bushwacking. The GPS disregards the 400 foot deep slot canyon in the middle of the one half mile to your way point.

Depending on the contour interval, this slot canyon (or similar barrier) may not show up on your map, so you need to acquire a feel for the geography of the area in which you re traveling.

To get back to your original question, I never program it in, because I never know for sure just how far I will hike on any given day. I start in the morning and stop when it isn't fun anymore (or the next feasible campsite after that point).

That sounds just like my plan for every trip. Planning is for folks who are too goal oriented

I program the entire route as one segment, because I can see the entire route on my (GPS)topo map, just as if I had it in my hand in paper form. So there aren't any hidden spots to fool me. Even though I can see the GPS straight line a segment, I can also see the trail and its irregularities as well. Typically when I use the GPS, I don't have it directing me, I just hike, and track my progress via the real time data and topo overlay. Then I see my track intersect waypoints on the route. These waypoints are usually put in as direction indicators, ie, turn R or L, head off trail, possible campsite, possible fishing spot, creek ford etc. If I was to see my track veer off of the route, then I would double check to see why I wasn't on my "route" or trail, and make corrections. This can happen at a junction where the visual direction may be a bit confusing until a short distance is traveled to verify you are on the right track. Like when two trails head off in the "same" direction...

Chris I'm not sure about your GPS model, it may not have "route capacity", but my Garmin II+ did have them and I would tell to follow say route 2 and it would take to each waypoint in succession and flash "approaching way point" then after reaching it, it would look for the next way point. Seems to me that if you didn't actually go close enough to each way point it didn't know to start looking for the next.

Now I use google Earth at home to locate the road or trail intersections and any funky spots to be careful of and load them in. I don't use routes on my foretrex, but whenever I get to an intersection I have notes saying which way to go, and of course backtracking is easy. Yes I print maps...

A hint is to not leave it on all of the time, just turn it on at critical points and ALWAYS TAKE THE TIME TO SET A WAYPOINT AT YOUR TRUCK IF YOU HIKE AWAY FROM IT. This saves batteries, always have a spare set of batteries.

However as an old camping buddy said - Jim yer an experienced engineer, operating the gear is second nature to you, not to everyone. I used to install military models with altitude, angle of attack and other flying parameters, in RPVs.
Jim

Jim, I agree with you 100% - see my last post under GPS vs compass comparison". But, how can you have an adventure if you always know where the truck is?

I think what you may want is a "Track", not a "Route".

There is software with tools to draw a track on a map and load it into your GPS. You can make a different track for each day of your planned hike and select the one you want to follow. (I think someone here recently posted a link to a website that has tools for this too, you might search for that)

You can save "Tracks" when using your GPS. Clear your Track Log at the trail head, waypoint your car, and start hiking. Save the Track when you reach your destination. Select it for the hike back. This is especially useful when bushwhacking off trail.

The best thing to do is to carry your "Quick Start Guide" with you and play with all the features until you remember how to use them. I carried mine for about a year.

Eureka! Bill is right, I totally forgot that I typically draw a "freehand" track, and follow that in my GPS... too many fancy words for this old man! I was confusing my track with my route... seems to me that they should be the same thing!
I use my TOPO software to draw the track, and put in the waypoints at critical points like I mentioned earlier.
thanks Bill for reminding me!
Steve

Thanks for all the replies!

Routes is what I was looking for and I have already used them semi-successfully by entering numerous waypoints to estimate the trail I'll be on.

My initial question was a way to make the route more dynamic on the fly.

So, for example: Route 1 contains 30 waypoints (bends, junctions, etc). Now, today, I want to navigate from waypoints 8 to waypoint 20, but, I want the GPS to use the route I programmed (8->9->10, etc). And give me a final distance based on the calculated distance of the route between waypoint 8 and 20.

It doesn't look like this is really feasible, so I'll go with making smaller routes and then just pick the route for the segment of trail I'm on.

I really only use the GPS at this point to verify where I'm at and get an idea of the ETA for where I want to stop. It's not for anything more critical than feeding my information need.

Yep. Here is my feeling. I used Loran and GPS extensively at sea long before using it hiking. I think the GPS should just augment the map and compass. By that I mean if you can find your position on the map with the GPS it has done a major job with just that. I believe you should be aware of your surroundings at all times. Are we hiking up a valley to a stream and turning north to attain a ridge and following the ridge.....) You should also be prepared by knowing what land forms you will be expecting and approximating how long each segment will take. The GPS will ASSIST you in monitoring your course and distance. You could do everything bu just following the GPS, but I, for some unexplained reason, like looking around and identifying land marks and observing everything going on around me.

That's mostly what I use mine for.



Yep, I hated that "I don't remember any of this" feeling I got when I was hurrying, trying to beat sunset, back to camp or my car. Even worse is when I took friends out and they started getting nervous.

Okay, I took the time and checked my Garmin eMap. You can create "New" routes. And you can select waypoints from your list of waypoints to use in your new route. I'd expect that your eTrex will do everything and more than my eMap.

So, on my eMap, you'd have to manually select each waypoint,from 8-20 and include them in your new route in the order you want to navigate to them. Save the new route, and then select it to start your "Navigation" for the day.

You can not create a "New" track on my eMap. The GPS creates them for you based on where you've been. I'd expect your eTrex is the same.

Okay, as I understand it, "Tracks" are basically just high resolution "Routes". They have more lat/long coordinates per mile, so to speak. The software is designed so that the longer your track is being recorded, the lower its resolution becomes.

As I said, there is software that will allow you to create Tracks by drawing them on a map and use them by uploading them to your GPS. Why do this?

Tracks will give you a better "ETA" than Routes that use less waypoints.

If I'm going somewhere I've never been before I will create tracks and use them instead of routes. I can follow the terrain on topo maps to avoid steep bluffs, and what not, when creating them and I've found it can save me a lot of time getting to my destination.

You can do the same thing with routes. It's just a little different approach. Both have pros and cons. Basically, Routes are faster and easier to make and you can do it on your handheld GPS, but they are less accurate for hiking on or off trails, and providing ETAs.

I'm pretty sure that Garmin has the user manuals for all their GPS models available for download on their website. They have step-by-step directions for using all the features the software has programmed into it.

billstephenson,

Thanks for gathering this info!! I scroll off of the "New" button every time I go into the routes menu. Don't know why I had a mental block on this.

I guess now I should re-read the manual and investigate some of the more advanced features.

I'll also check out the tracks section. Sounds like a combination of both might get me all the information goodness I want.

You mentioned software for manually entering tracks. Is there a package you are currently using and like/tolerate?

Thanks again!

I use a Mac, so my options are limited. I have National Geographic TOPO! software, but it does not let you make tracks. I don't know why. It should.

I have older Garmin "MapSource" software for WinPCs too, and the topo map set, but it doesn't let you make tracks either. The newer version may. I hear it's a lot better, and it runs on native on the Mac (if you have a newer one than mine

What I use is an application called "TopoDraw". It was only for Macs, and now it's no longer available as far as I can tell. It wasn't expensive and I might be able to contact the developer and get permission to give you a copy or put you in touch with them, if that helps.

I don't know what's available for WinPCs, but it's likely that there is something out there.

Maybe others can help with this, I'd like to know if there is anything else for the Mac myself.

I'll poke around and see what I can find. I'm on PC so the Mac software won't work directly for me.

If I find anything interesting, I'll post back here.