GPS-Why are they really difficult for Backpackers?

For the past year I've had a GPS unit that worked with my Palm Treo. After getting frustrated with how cludgy it was for backpacking, I just bought a Garmin eTrex Vista HCx a couple of weeks ago. It does a lot of things really well, like route finding on roads, laying down waypoints, 32 hours on standard batteries, and breadcrumbing, but as I've become a little more familiar with it, I began to realize that it suffered from the same thing as the Treo, although in different ways: These things are not designed for backpackers!

Now, I'm still a noob with my eTrex, so someone out there may be able to enlighten me on the error of my ways, but allow me to lay this argument out there and see what you all think:

THE DREAM:

As a backpacker, I'd love to be able to snag a GPS generated "path" (route, track, whatever you want to call it) from one of you out there who have done a trail before, drop it into my GPS, and go. On the trail, I'd be able to use my GPS to see the exact time and distance between waypoints included by the previous backpacker, as well as dropping my own. (For sights, water holes, danger points, junctions, etc.). Back at home, I'd save my "path" and maybe upload it to the web for others to use.

This all sounds simple enough, and many of you GPSers out there may point out that this is doable today. Yes it is, to some extent, but it's a royal pain. Here's what I have to do to do this on my eTrex:

THE "TRACK" METHOD:

Download a "track" from the web, get it into my GPS using Mapsource, and use the "Track Back" feature to navigate. All this is fairly straight forward, but there are several problems with the track method:

1. Even though I have 4 Gig of memory in my eTrex, it can only store 20 "tracks", making it fairly useless for long hikes with multiple stages.

2. "Tracks" only indicate the distance to the next turn, which on a trail are numerous and fairly useless when what you really need is the distance to the next major waypoint (the crest of that pass, the stream crossing, that trail junction, etc.).

3. In order to use a track for navigation, I need to use the "Track Back" feature on my Vista. This feature works OK for out and backs, but for loop hikes or anything with a loop in it, I have to do surgery on the track on my PC before I move it over to my GPS.

Bottom line is that the track method could be designed way better for the backpacker.

THE "ROUTE" METHOD:

OK, so tracks aren't the way to go, so how about creating a "route"? Like the "track", I download a route and send it to my GPS. When I tell my Vista to navigate the route, I'm forced to do it either via roads, which I usually try to avoid on backpack trips, or as straight "as the crow flies" segments between the waypoints. Now, anyone who's been on a trail before knows that straight shot distances have nothing to do with how far it is on the trail. Basically this method is useless for indicating real distances. But hey! There's no 20 route limit! (Although there is a 500 point limit for each route).

THE WAYPOINT METHOD:

The waypoint method is where you download a hiker's file and use just the waypoints, navigating by pointing directly to the waypoints along the way. This is pretty much the same as the "as the crow flies" way of navigating a route, with the GPS giving directions and straight shot distances between them.

WHAT BACKPACKERS NEED:

This is what I really need as a backpacker: A GPS that will give me information about how far I am ON THE TRAIL from my next point of interest, without giving me every little twist and turn, it needs to do that as simply as possible (i.e. I shouldn't need a computer science degree to figure it out), and it should do so without arcane 20 file limits, or 500 point limits. It should also synch easily with the web so I can snag the best path out there.

Ok, does anyone know if my eTrex can do that? If not, is there anything out there that does?

You could get the info that you want if you carry a laptop with resident software and an attached GPS.

That said - GPS units were designed for the military - not for BPers. If you want to navigate a ship or plane in a straight line they're great. They were never designed for trails.

What I do - enter the important way points manually. When you get to the trail head mark that point and leave the GPS on as you hike thus recording your path for trakbak. Printout a google earth photo of the area and write the coordinates of the center of each lake on the map. Be sure to use the same coordinate system on the GPS.

The hardest part is having a GPS and a map and no preset way points. Its way hard to figure out where you are on the map even with a gps, however trying the same thing with a compass and map - the GPS will get you home when lost and the compass will only tell you which way is north.

Let me ask this - can you navigate with a map and compass? GPS is easier.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well, I guess I don't share the dream. I would never want to follow someone else's path, and I wouldn't want someone to follow mine. My hole purpose for backpacking is getting away from people and hiking my own hike, no one else's. I find it fun to use that ol' map and compass technology. However, if I did forget how to use a map, and I had lost my truck in the snow, I can see how a GPS could come in handy... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding Jim. Actually, that would be the only reason for a GPS, finding my truck in a snow storm. To each his own. YMMV alot. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

finallyme

What is a map? Ok we know what a map is - but what is a map that doesn't show half of the trails? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Then what good is a map when off trail? Then say what good is a map with no trails on it? My GPS has a built in compass that points to true north. But if you are lost in the fog and have a map and all you know is which way is north, you still have no positional information with just a compass. You don't even know your altitude. I pulled out the map in the rain repeatedly and it was no help - zero - zilch.

I did compass courses as a boy scout and I've been orienteering . <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> In open country its a fun skill to have. Now I want you to imagine that we're going fishing in a mountain stream at 7000 feet elevation. We park the truck, mark a waypoint, take a bearing, mark your map, etc. Now walk down a winding hillside half a mile to a stream with limited visibility and then walk down stream fishing for three hours. Now when its time to leave you are not going to walk back up the stream, you're going to hike up and back towards your vehicle. My GPS knows where it is. Can you locate it with your map and compass? Short answer - no you can't because you were fishing and didn't constantly update your map. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Maybe I'm wrong? But I'd rather carry the weight in spare batteries than in a compass. I'd also rather have a google space shot than a topo anyway, with way points written on it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My dream GPS weighs 2 ounces and has a roll-out 14'x14" screen. My main issues with a GPS is weight and the horrible tiny view screen and poor viewing in bright daylight. I have never been able to "see" a landscape well with zoom-in, zoom-out. I am really comfortable with USGS 7.5 minute maps and I do not even take a compass. Finding north is just not that hard to do without a compass. And I love to lay out all my maps and see both the exact tiny place I am while also seeing the entire trip route.

Jim, I can't argue with your logic. You are dead on. That is why I do the following:

1. bring two google space shots at different zoom scales
2. bring two topos at different zoom scales. Make sure one has an accurate scale. (I usually just download the USGS topo of the internet for free and can therefore make custom map for the area I need.
3. Never "follow" trails as your terrain features. Streams are OK.
4. Always, always, always, update your map. Jim is right, you can't find your location with a compass, map and fog. But, if you never "lose" your location, a compass is only there to confirm.

If I had never been there before, and I was following a stream with fish in it (ie a major terrain feature on my USGS topo map), and there are also good elevation changes, the chance of me not knowing were I am is slim. I am paranoid about getting lost (probably because I don't have a gps <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ), so I am constantly orienting the map and double checking my position every five minutes.

I am not saying that your GPS is bad. It is a powerful tool. I also think you would have found the truck without it, albeit it would have taken longer. Two experienced hikers would not have died, only prolonged the trip. What I am saying is that a map takes a lot of awareness to be used properly, otherwise, when you are lost, your map and compass won't help in the fog. You will have to wait for clear sky's to orient yourself.

The problem is in places where I do most of my hiking in the Michigan woodlands. There are no visible landmarks and the elevation change is in a range less than the contour lines on the topo. Often you cannot see more than 500 feet and you can go for hours without crossing a stream. Usually you end up crossing two track roads within a few miles but only about a quarter of them are shown on the map. You can follow the two track roads on the theory that sooner or later you will end up at a known point but most of the two track roads do not even begin to go in a straight line. Once you have lost the trail the only thing you can do is backtrack or head towards a known handrail point.

One thing you can do is go to the Garmin site and download the complete manual. The brochure which comes with the Garmin is worthless. For the Etrex the online manual goes to 50+ pages and comes closer to telling you what the unit can do.

My GPS (Garmin GPSMap 60csx) does all of this, and so do the Colorado and Oregon models (with some small caveats).

If you set up a route or track in advance, the software on these units lets you see how far you are to your next waypoint (or any other), as well as to the final destination, using the distance of the actual route/track, not "as the crow flies". Don't know what I'm doing differently from you, but I've not run into the problems and limitations you list (for example, I use PC software to create routes with sufficient waypoints to closely follow the actual trails and distances).

Many such tracks and routes are available online at sites like National Geographic and GPS forums, and when they're not, it's not hard to make them in software like NG Topo or Garmin MapSource or even Google Earth.

The user interfaces on the software and GPS receivers most certainly could be improved - but they do manage to be pretty useful out there in the field, I've found.

Now, it would be even better if the map data, right out of the box (er, DVD), would have trails done up in a way that would allow you to just head out and not have to create a route in advance; instead, the GPS receiver should be smart enough to know you're on a trail and allow you to easily select trail segments to follow. MapSource is pretty close to being able to do that on the PC - so that at least allows making and downloading routes easier.

Wow! that's some screen, you do really want to be able to "see" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'd like a really small external antenna to clip to my shoulder or top of my backpack, so my Garmin 76csx will keep a satellite lock while it is in my pocket. Something like a small lapel mike-sized doo hickey.

"I'd like a really small external antenna to clip to my shoulder or top of my backpack, so my Garmin 76csx will keep a satellite lock while it is in my pocket. Something like a small lapel mike-sized doo hickey."


I used to wish for a two-part GPS unit, one part being a little button receiver that I can pin to my hat that communicates with the larger GPS piece via bluetooth (or some sort of wireless standard). Even better would be if the device could suck in and process data from multiple such (hopefully inexpensive) button receivers, one on my head, one on my wife's, etc. Would need to be separately powered, however (yet another little battery ...).

Less of an issue these days with better GPS technology, such as the SiRF Star III chipset. When hiking I keep my smartphone (my GPS) in a carry holster on my pack strap. I almost never keep it turned on (power budget), but the rare instances when I have it's maintained satellite lock that way just fine.


Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle