what could happen

here is a reminder of the dangers of unstable snow , it would have been a poor swim with boots and pack on [img][image]http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm236/northernbc/DSC00023-2.jpg[/img][/image]

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You're gonna have to finish your thought here... I have no idea what you're trying to illustrate.

I think what he's talking about is the large crevasse that is opening up on the right of the photo and causing the snow slope to slip into the lake.

yes you are right midnight sun i did leave it hanging but tomd is correct in that i meant the end of the lake falling in it would not have been nice to end up in the lake. it is kind of neat how much actually did fall in.

btw, I read on Lou Dawson's website, www.wildsnow.com that there were two people killed over the weekend by avalanches, a woman at Vail, inbound of all things and an experienced skier in Aspen skiing backcountry.

Time to be careful with all the new snow falling these days, We are even getting some in our mountains.

Yeah, I've seen that a lot. It never occurs to me to walk near lake ice unless I want to go skating. What's exciting is when you've checked the ice thickness, you're out there skating or sipping on hot chocolate, and the ice cracks like thunder all the way across the lake. I never know if it's coincidence, or if the body weight of a few humans is enough to do that.

wolfeye

The lake always seems to crack under me, not the other guys. I'm panicked jumping from ice flow to ice flow as the ice shatters around me and the other guys keep going. I never ski on lakes anymore - not after breaking the ice twice and managing not to get dunked. One time I just stepped of a trail onto the top of a snow slope, and there was a crack like a gun shot as the ice broke under me. One big leap back to safety and I learned to stay off fully loaded avo slopes.

Its really hard to give advice about winter travel, except be careful, avoid avo slopes, lakes, and coulouirs. Its safer to melt snow than to venture too close to the frozen edge of a lake to get water.

Other tips - always zip your sleeping bag before leaving home, in the light when you have time to fuss with zippers.

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

That's nothing. I'm not averse to walking on lakes in the right conditions, but one of my frequent haunts in the swan hills has a kidney shaped little lake (unnamed) that we call "ghost lake" - because of the sounds it makes. Due to the shape it always gets a large crack and pressure ridge (by late november you can typically walk right up to it) but as the sun gets on it during the day and the ice expands and then in the afternoon as it cools down and contracts the lake emits these ghostly loud basso profundo hoots as the ice moves against each other under pressure. Standing on it (anywhere on the lake) at that time is amazing. it's like standing on the world's spookiest and biggest subwoofer making low owl noises... But definately enough to freak you the heck out the first time it happens and you have no idea why what you're standing on just did that... all around you <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

phat
freezing lake sounds
People from upstate new york have told me that every year their lake would emit weird sounds about the time of the first ice over. I was camped alone on Christmas at Lake Alpine in the Sierras when I thought I heard hooty owls, so I hooted back at them. Then really weird sounds like flying saucers taking off from out on the lake, then a major rip shot across the lake that sounded like a mountain lion running into camp and I screamed at the top of my lungs, then nothing... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> and more weird noises. I had a dictation recorder with me to work on my camping book, but it couldn't pick up the sounds.

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'd love to know what a flying saucer taking off sounds like. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

. . . even more, I'd like to know how you know? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We used to skate on a lake when I was a kid, and what I remember most of it is the sound of the ice on clear cold nights as the temperature dropped. Thats nature making music.

Re snowfield: Safe travel on snow has a lot to do with temp and time of day. That snowfield looks scary but is probably safe to cross in the morning. Or what do you think?

The places I go often end up with things like that - big snowfields (generally fine)
or things like snow bridges over river - f'rinstance here - brazeau river coming out of nigel pass (in early july!) - and that's a pretty big river:



to put the amount of water to scale, here I am standing in the middle of it at a crossable spot in the pass a kilometer above that spot:




While these things can be safe to cross, they can also kill you very very quickly. What you're talking about are skills tantamount to what you need for glacier travel - which, like mountaineering, can be done relatively safely by the trained and experienced with the right gear. Having said that, doing so without experienced help and gear (like glacier travel) is extermely dangerous. I don't consider myself qualified or fit enough for it, and I don't try it.

I´m not a risktaker, but there is something about the process of assessing and minimizing potential risks that is a great part of my outdoor experience. But even if I (or someone in my company) descide to walk away from it, I´m happy.

Nice pictures, at what altitude are they taken?

Keith

Don't you watch tv? In the old days they were somewhat limited in the sound affects available. Flying saucers sounded like lots of high speed motors of varying speeds going in and out of resonance. I cannot imagine how a lake could create sounds like that. Perhaps watch the final seen of The Day The Earth Stood Still?
Jim

Those are from Nigel Pass in Jasper National Park Nigel pass proper is at 2195 meters, the river when I'm standing in it is probably 50 - 100 meters below the pass to the north, and the snow bridge 300 or 400 meters below that - the river comes across in that short gully you see as a line of shadow from the southeast leading to the A marker on the google map, it makes a right hand turn around there and drops down to the valley to the north. the snow bridge is on the drop down. following the
river north and taking that second valley heading up to the nortwest from point A takes you to Jonas pass.
More pics of that place here One of the nicer short hikes in the canadian rockies IMO.

thats no moon. it's a space station!

Phat,When I was down in NZ, crossing rivers was par for the course and it did take some attention. The water was often glacier melt and just above freezing. This was before I had trekking poles and one time I did fall over, straight forward onto my hands and knees. Fortunately, the water wasn't very deep and I was able to stand back up without being hurt.

One thing I learned-never take your boots off. After crossing, just wring out the water in your socks (wool or Capilene in my case), pour it out of your boots, put them all back on and keep walking. After a short while, the socks would be dry.

Also, undo the waistband on your pack and loosen the straps a bit- a precaution if you go over and have to ditch your pack. Don't forget to undo the chest strap if you have one.

I've found that I'm far more apt to get off balance and fall if my waist belt is unfastened. I do unfasten the chest strap, though.