Questions for the OR Show...

As a request from Earthling (which I thought was an excellent idea), I am willing to ask questions to different experts I 'run into' at the OR Show. Upon my return, I will try to address these the best I can. Know that I will be super busy with many appointments and obligations. As a side note, If you have a question about anything Cascade Designs (MSR, Thermarest, Sealine, Platypus), Granite Gear, Princeton Tec, Westcomb, and/or ACR, I will have a much better opportunity than other manufacturers. I've already been asked to inquire more specifically how the Internal Pressure Regulator works in the MSR Reactor. I know the engineer really well (believe me, I've asked him my fair share of questions) and look forward to hear what he has to say.

I will have some time to walk the show as well. If you have any questions about anything you've wanted to know, such as a material question (Pertex, Primaloft, Polartec, Goretex, eVENT, Epic, etc, etc,) or gear questions (Marmot, Western Mtneering, Henessy Hammocks, Hilleburg, etc), I will do my best to ask. Again, I might not have enough time to answer them all, but it should be pretty informative.

I will also bring back a general report of what I saw and things that I think are worth mentioning. For instance, the winter show is when they announce the Backpacker Mag's Editor's Choice Award for 2008. Ask away! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Me first! I want to know why Platypus stopped making our much beloved .5L Platy <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Ask, cajole, beg, strong arm'em whatever you have to do Jason to get them to make them again <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Find someone making decent Hard Anodized Aluminum cookware, and then ask them why they are'nt making it in sizes for Single backpackers like a decent sized 6-800 ml pot, not mug, that I find is easier to pack and uses fuel more efficently <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Rounded corners make cleaning easier IME. All the sets I see for single hikers have grooves or ridges that make cooking in them a hassle to clean.....GSI Double boiler comes to mind...

Thanks for being a sport jason, we know it's work, so take some time to enjoy the show <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I want you to find the guy from Golite who lied to me 1 1/2 years ago when i asked if Golite would be making a new version of their old Fuzz/Furr quilts. Give him a smack from me !

To add to this, how about why they don't make a pot that is the same size and weight as the heine, but with smooth sides?

Maybe a better exercise program will smooth out your hiney?

MNS

Well my Open Country Hard Anodized Aluminium set that I got for Xmas came with one 2 qt. pot and one 3 cup pot (about 700 mls.). Both are smooth sided. If that's what you're looking for? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for your offer, Jason! Here's something you can ask all of them:

Why, why don't the gear and clothing manufacturers realize that many of us women don't want bright colors because we want to be inconspicuous out in the wilderness, for security reasons as well as for consideration of others? I'm not the only woman out there who passionately hates pink and purple! We don't want black, either--shows the dirt (and in my case, dog hair) too much. How about some nice subdued grays, tans, blue-grays and gray-greens? If men can have these colors in their clothing and gear, why not women?

Jason,

Ask about that new brand of ultra light UV water purifer talked about by those Communists (hee,hee) on Backpacking Light.

Eric

Ask MSR two things:

Why don't they increase the height of the Titan kettle enough to give it a full liter capacity and the ability to EASILY store the Pocket Rocket inside?

Why do they insist on using blaze-orange rainflies on their Fast-and-Light line of shelters? Couldn't they at least offer tan as an option?

Oops, I guess that's 3 questions.

Thanks, Jason

Things I'd like to see, so I suppose you could ask about:

**0) I don't trust canister stove lindal valves - they sometimes LEAK when the stove is detached I don't want to leave my stove screwed onto the canister by why oh why does nobody make an tiny little screw on cap with gasket to act as belt and suspenders for a
canister lindal valve? - (not something tottally cheezy that wouldn't hold the gas in)...

1) an *ultralight* 800 - 900 FP down BARREL bag - why must I buy mummy bags and use them like quilts. why should only skinny buggers with tiny shoulders and middles have light sleeping bags?

2) 500 ml platty - to second earthling - I have to carry my scotch in a little nalgene now..

3) A titanium self pressurizing white gas stove. No Pump..

"1) an *ultralight* 800 - 900 FP down BARREL bag - why must I buy mummy bags and use them like quilts. why should only skinny buggers with tiny shoulders and middles have light sleeping bags? "

I'm not familiar with the term "barrel bag," but would the Western Mountaineering MityLite be anything like what you're describing?

This one's easy, we are! I checked our most recent pricelist and it is listed as a 'new' product. In fact, I think you will be pleased that not only are making this bottle again, but it is in a brand new material. This new material doesn't crackle, is much more durable, is totally taste free (similar to the old stuff) and won't react with alcohol. The bottles are also in a cool new shape that is easier to grip and represents a whole new product line. The price hasn't increased either. I know that we are completely re-working our cookware for the summer show (August). Until then, there won't be any new changes in our cookware. I know they've done a ton of surveying and I've been told that many have asked for a 1L pot. I'm excited to see what it will be and will let you know in June when I see it. Unfortunately, this new cookware won't be available until next January. Hopefully it will be worth the wait. They've been talking about this for awhile.

I will still ask the guys at the show to get more details. If I find out anything new, I'll let you know.

This one might be tough, but I'll check out the booth and give you any new scoop that I find out. This is going to be fun! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Excellent point! I don't think your the only one with this concern. I see a trend happening with the women's specific outerware that may be heading in this direction. I know at Westcomb (I have to plug it) there are examples of both. Some of our jackets are subdued while others are more 'showy' and 'girly'. I'll try to give you a general accounting of how I see women's technical clothing and where it's heading.

Ultraviolet light purification is becoming more and more a viable treatment solution for backcountry water. I've been to about 20 OR shows (about 10 years) and have seen this technology take shape. I'm very interested in it as well (I bought a Steripen Adventurer this year). I will look and ask around to see how this is panning out. MSR definitely has taken a keen interest in finding out all of the ups and downs of ultraviolet light and I'll ask Sarah Bruce, our inhouse guru on water treatment, what she thinks.

By the way, is this UV Purifier the Meridian Designs AquaStar?

One reason (as I have asked them about this before) is that they brought out the PocketRocket/Titan Kettle Kit after the Jetboil showed they had a all-in-one stove solution. We believe that we already had one currently, but realized it wasn't being marketed properly. When we first introduced both products, we didn't originally intend them to mate together. However, we found that if packed right, they can be used as an all-in-one. However, they don't fit very well. I think what you will see this coming year is a revision in the Titan Kettle that will allow the Pocket Rocket to fit much better. I'll ask Redwood and Drew (two guys in charge of stoves for MSR) what's in the works. I might have to slip them twenty bucks <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.
This was brought up in our sales meeting and the explanation was that they offer great ambient light in the interior. For next year, we are bringing to market the new Hubba HP and Hubba Hubba HP that include a bright yellow fly. I know that many of the reps weren't pleased with the color but after getting into the tent saw the reasoning behind it (great ambient light). The other reason, we were told, is that they are easier to find when the weather turns bad. Our new Venture line is more of a light tan and not so bright. I will ask Terry (our tent guy who used to be the head engineer for Moss Tents) for more specifics.

Great question! This is one I haven't thought of before. This is another question for Drew and I'll be sure to ask. I personally have no idea. Over the years I've had the opportunity to get to know the guys at Western Mountaineering and I think this is a great question for them. I know they make the Megalight which is more of a rectangular bag. I also know that Big Agnes makes a 800+ fill power (called the Mystic SL 15 degree) bag similar to their Lost Ranger (600 fill). I know Bill Gamber (Big Agnes) fairly well and ask what the deal is. He's always pretty patient with me. Good news, we are! New materials and new shape is also in the works. It won't be available until March (production issues).
We do have a new stove coming, but I don't think it will be made of titanium (will cost way too much). It won't have a pump and will be pretty light and self contained, the only one of it's kind in liquid fuel form. I'm hoping that I see it at our summer sales meeting. I'll ask the guys about this one, too. You can be certain of that!

OK, you knew this one was coming, Jason - what's the status on MSR's capillary stove? Do they have a projected date for release? If not, what are the problems left to overcome before they release it?

Thanks!

Just thought of one for the Patagonia folks: why don't you make a pair of down pants to match your down sweater (similar to the Micropuff pullover and pants combo)?

Thanks, Jason! "Visual pollution" is the term I wanted to use, but I had a "senior moment" while writing my prior post. It applies not just to women's wear and gear (although we women have an additional reason to want to be inconspicuous) but to those bright orange and bright yellow tents, too! They may look pretty from inside, but they look horrible dotted about the landscape! I like my gray silnylon tent; it's plenty light enough inside and blends into the landscape from outside.

Earthling, I found the .5L Platypus currently available at both Campmor and the platypushydration.com websites. It seems to no longer be called the "Li'l Nipper," but it looks like the same bottle with the push/pull cap as the one I have, which I bought in 2000.

Would it be possible to have some of these hydration bag makers make the opening wide enough to just stick the Adventurer Steripen directly into the bladder? I'm not talking the wide zip Platy but the 1 and 2 liters have the narrow openings and the pen doesn't fit. I have to carry another liter bottle or bladder with a wide opening to treat the water, then pour into the bladder.

Possible glen, but I've never managed to find one to try it on <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-Bob

This brings up an interesting question . . .
Will the SteriPen work _through_ the Platy? Or, does Platy material block UV light?

The Platy blocks the UV light from the Steri-Pen. Besides, it won't turn on unless submerged... and I wouldn't bypass that safety feature!

I've got the same problem - I carry a 1 liter nalgene with the pre-filter, in order to effectively treat with the SteriPen. The weight drives me nuts, but the quick convenience is handy.

I recently bought a 1 liter folding nalgene to use for that purpose because of the wide mouth and I can dunk the pen. Will the UV light not work on this?

Leadfoot, I think there are two issues here. Keith was, I believe, thinking of waving the Pen around outside the Platy to zap the water inside, because the Pen won't fit in most Platy's. That won't work.

About your question.... There are three things that you need to watch out for with the Pen and flexible/foldable containers.
1) The plastic blocks UV, so don't bend the container.
2) The Pen radiates light out from the sides of the bulb and not so much the BOTTOM of the bulb. I was told that it's nearly impossible to guarantee exposure of all the water to UV, in an enormous container like a 2 liter platypus. The Pen only sticks down a quarter of the way or so.
3) Most neck openings are simply too small for the Pen.

Sounds like you'll be fine with the liter sized flexible Nalgene. Just don't fold it in half while zapping <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That container is a good idea, actually, and probably a bit lighter than the polyethylene Nalgene I use now.

Thanks for the info. I also have the 500 ml one as well. I haven't had a chance to use any of them as yet.

I wish Platy made larger mouthed bladders...although they aren't my favorite brand. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

That's a problem in the Adventurer design. The original Steripen seals perfectly on the Platypus- so you can inverte and swish.

That being said, I still use a 1L Nalgene Canteen- so I can use the prefilter.

I was at REI last night and foung the .5L platy. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

OO! OO!

"...won't react with alcohol." Just the kind of water bladder I need to ease those lung-busting climbs up endless switchbacks in rarified air.

(Lessee...Jack Daniels would be an amiable hiking companion, as would be his cousin Jim Beam.)

Eric

Let me think:
questions for Westcomb:
- why don't they use pitzips anymore in their latest eVENT jackets (I just don't buy it that eVENT is that good that any extra ventilation isn't necessary)
- polartec powershield single face (like in the trailblazer pant): it appears to be the powershield face fabric without membrane and fleece but with hardface treatment. Isn't it than just a stretch woven fabric? Any performance ratings like CFM.

Patagonia:
- what is the H2No used in 3 layer shells: microporeus or hydrophilic? Any performance figures?

Montbell:
- is Breeze Dry Tec indeed PTFE as ben said (not that I want to doubt Ben but a second opinion is always nice). Any info on with who they developed it?

Any info on Ion Mask from P2i (if present or if a brand will start to use it). Capabilities for use in jackets and pants?

New products from Valandre and Western mountaineering?

New developments from Inov-8?

Developments from Hilleberg, paticularly if they are considering changes to the Nallo (making it even lighter).

Jason,

Shame on you MSR guys. Always leading us on with teasers about your imaginary capillary stoves. We all "need" a new stove to add to our treasured collections. Let us have one of these rare creatures. PULEEZE?

(Hmmmm...I'm at seven stoves now. Not nearly enough - not nearly.)

Eric

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Now, now, we don't want people walking around with flat heinys <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Not to gild the proverbial lily Jason; but could you find a company to make those pots without mesurements stamped into the sides <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Food just sticks in them and burns on <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> And while you're yakkin' it up with them tell them about 'YOUR' cool idea for pot handles.....

Make the pot handle retainers on the isde so that the handle ends enter upside down, and the handle sprung so when you insert them they spring apart and the tension holds them in, while you are lifting said pot! Removeable pot handles make a cleaner pot to pack, heck the handles could be sized to pack in the pot!

I thought of something else....then promptly forgot what it was <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Sucks to get old eh <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If I had known I could make you this popular in a few days jason, i would've asked to be your agent and got a commission <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good lead! I'll hop on my mule and head up to Campmor...don't wait up fer' my answer <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

To add complaints I've heard among the clothing racks in campmor, EMS, et al...Why do they not make clothes to fit women over 45 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> All I hear is "who are the skinny twits making these clothes that we can't fit into?" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Dang! Jason you are the Real Deal! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I must have missed them on my last Campmor excursion <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but there is just so much stuff <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> and so little time to peruse before they close and tell me to go home <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Now....Psst!....Where can i fondle those new Platys?....I won't tell anyone.....Dang, thais was'nt a PM <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I guess Antigravity gear was selling too many grease pots eh? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> What a free market economy we have! You Canadians listenin' <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well ya made Phat and me happy...and, well, it's his Birthday ya' know..and nothing makes a Birthday boy happier than getting what he wants <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm in for $10 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jason, how's about sitting yer tent guys down and have them read pages 18 -27 in the book, 'Woodcraft & Camping' Nessmuk.....and then have them make up a copy of this 'shanty tent' for those of us non sewers who understand the principles behind a one man tent <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Often times tents are too long, too narrow, too heavy, too wide..why not 'just right' for solo?

Bless yer heart there Oregon Mouse <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I'd been loking fer a lil nip since the Holidays was over <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> guess I did'nt hit the eggnog as hard as i wanted to this season <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Now, what can we do today to put you into this shiny new Platy? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Come on now, you can tell US we're only here to help you <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a 2L Water Tank Platy right next to me and it has the zip top opening which isn't my favorite type opening since I had one not fully seal before in my pack <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> But it allows a rapid fill for carrying water back to camp....which is why they call it the Water Tank I guess huh <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Earthling..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well, for starters, I don't like having such a small opening for a bladder that I suck on all day. It is a PITA to fill.

The Zips don't allow you to connect a drinking hose to it. My understanding is that they are just canteens. I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

I've had Platy's burst apart. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Difficult to dry. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Caps are easy to lose

I have a Camelback which I love and also a Nalgene bladder that I love even more. It has snap-on connectors for the hose to the bladder, very light-weight and wide opening.

otherwise.....I guess Platy's are fine. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It'll have to be a huge undertaking to smooth out this heine. But, at least once it is smooth, it will be MUCH easier to clean. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well that brought a knowing smile to my face this morning <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I guess I'm at 5, unless you count the box of homemade alky stoves.. If I'm forced to count those I suppose I might have to start making weekly trips to Stoves Anonymous meetings..

i have to meet with malden mills, so i'll ask them about the powershield question. The valandre folks probably aren't going to be there at all. If they are, I'll talk to them. I can ask my 'gucci friends about the H2No, but they generally don't share figures.

Jason, stop by and visit when you've got the chance, 5042...

graham

Did 'ya send the burst one back for a free replacement <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Guess not from the tone of yer post eh? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Kinda hard to drink out of them empty ain't it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Well, there's yer problem, they's iz gotta have waterin them to give it up <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ah, THERE'S yer problem, yer suckin' on the bottle all day <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> there's programs for folks like you. Come on, let us help, we're yer friends <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Jason:

Not to belabor a point (and I sure don't want to sound unappreciative for you offering us a chance to have input for manufacturers), but regarding ambient light: the designers do realize that most of us are only inside the tent when it's dark out, don't they? "Ambient light" has never been an issue for me, particularly when I'm asleep.

Thanks again - your patience is much appreciated. And please realize that we're not complaining about the quality of MSR gear - we're just offering tweaks to already great stuff.

I agree with Glenn let us point out tweeks we'd like to see with gear. We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jason, could you get Gardenville/Bill a job as a gear designer for MSR <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> He's our Resident Gear Designer Guru around these parts; and I think his work exceeds what's available out there in the marketplace, and he should be compensated for his endeavors IMO <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

How about talking those MSR guys into providing TWO lightweight stuff sacks...one for the tent and one for the fly ( to keep wet fly from soaking inner tent ). I know that at least i would pay a little extra for that here in the Pacific Northwest !

I'll second that - I always replace the single oversized sack with two smaller ones. Also makes for easier packing: two small items, instead of one bulky item.

Great suggestion.

Jasonlivy:
As you are no doubt aware, MSR fuel bottles canot be sold in Canada. Health Canda has dictated that child resistant caps are to be developed before sales can resume.
What progress has been made to meet this new requirement? When can we expect the changes to reach the consumer?
Thanks.

For 2008, all of the fuel bottles will have a childproof cap (which will also raise the price). I haven't actually seen these, but they should be available as of Jan 2008.

I ditto the question to Hilleberg re: Lighter materials. I have made my own mesh/silnylon inner tent for three season use in our Nallo 2 and it ROCKS. The traditional inner is just too hot and lacking in ventilation for a lot of the year. Not to mention the coller inner is 300 grams lighter...

A second vent at the top of the back pole (just like the front vent) would also be a nice addition to ventilation, as long as it could be closed off when not needed. This is my next DIY Nallo project, but would be a good option for commercial production for the non-diyers.

Hi, Jason:

This is too late for the show, but I was wondering: given all the interest in alcohol stoves for lightweight and environmentally-friendly camping, is MSR working on anything in this area?

It seems like all the current offerings come up short in one fashion or another: they're not fuel-efficient, they're too heavy, they're too flimsy, you have to burn up left-over fuel, or some combination of the above. I've got to think that there's an opportunity here for MSR to step in and produce a really light stove that will store (or cleanly drain) leftover fuel (a la Trangia), incorporate an efficient, light windscreen (a la Clikstand, but in titanium and more easily stored), and store inside a Titan kettle.

How about outdoor clothes for women that fit women with curves-small waist to hip ratio so they will stay up (and sit at our natural waistline?).

Those are excellent questions, but something I have no idea about. I know they are dedicated to improving the current offering of products in the complete Cascade Design line (Thermarest, MSR, Sealine, Platypus, Tracks). Because they have limited resources, they can only do a few major product introduces per year. Because of the expense behind the Reactor's development, new stoves may have taken the end of the line.

I am always amazed with the ideas that are developed at Cascade Designs. I have in mind what I think should be the next product, but the engineers often have something different in the works. I have never been disappointed.

Look to see some incredible stuff coming in the next few years in cookware, stoves, pads, and water treatment.

I see fit becoming more of a factor in the high-end clothing market. Before it was all about technical features, but more and more people are wanting performance, but with fit to match. As a rep for Westcomb, I've talked at length with our pattern maker who spends at times up to 9 months developing a pattern. Fit is obviously pretty important to them. I see other manufacturers following suit.

Currently Westcomb is not making any lifestyle clothing, but that is coming. I'm excited to see how they turn out! It should be good!

I agree with you completely. After fooling around, not so happily, with various alcohol stoves, I've decided to stick with my Pocket Rocket until MSR brings out an alcohol stove. They may not always be the first on the market, but they always tend to be about the best when they do.

I was wondering if you could talk to the lack of pitzips on many of the eVent jackets on the market.
I've been looking at the Westcombs but whats turning me off is the lack of pitzips.

Am I being dumb here? I know eVent is much more breathable then Gore-Tex, but for some reason (maybe years of marketing) I'm unwilling to put coin down on an untried jacket/fabric without pitzips.

I don't blame you a bit. It is a lot of money. One of the reasons Westcomb doesn't use pitzips is that eVent (the company) doesn't like manufacturers using pitzips. They don't think they're needed.

Some interesting trivia: when a manufacturer makes a jacket, they send it to eVent. They then go over it with a fine-tooth comb either approving it to be called an official eVent product (similar to Gore's Wet Weather certification) or rejecting it. Every jacket needs to go through this strict and stingent process. eVent considers Westcomb as the premier brand for them. They were incredibly impressed with the quality, fit and construction.

Backpacker Mag gave the Editor's Choice Award to the Specter LT calling it "the most breathable jacket they've ever worn". Although it does breath incredibly well (needs to be experienced to be fully appreciated), there are times when it can be overwhelmed. For this reason there are times when pitzips would come in handy. However, I have found personally while wearing the Specter when backpacking that I don't miss the pitzips. They would add weight and the eVent material breaths so well that the amount I sweat is tolerable. The Gore jackets I've owned are laughable when compared to my Specter LT.

Westcomb does make a couple of jackets that include pitzips, but nothing in the ultra-lightweight category. The two jackets are the Mirage and the Phantom. The Phantom is an amazing jacket intended for mountaineering. We currently have a group that successfully summited K2 and are preparing for another climb using the same Phantom Jackets and Bibs. The Phantom is a very clean, incredibly well tailored piece that is unique in the market.

The Mirage could be considered Westcomb's flagship piece. It was the first hardshell to incorporate the iPod controller (iMirage) which won it the Brand New Award from ISPO.

The Phantom weighs in at about 17oz and the Mirage is at about the same. Both use the most durable hardshell material eVent offers.

Sometimes it isn't best to be first to market, but to make sure the stuff really works. Cascade Designs is fully dedicated in continuing this tradition. They show no signs of compromising quality from what I've seen.

Thanks, I saw them but they looked like they had a lot of faff on them. I'm a fan of really simple jackets for climbing in. Still, I'm hoping that I'll be able to try on some of your stuff. Any dealers in Toronto?