water purification
Posted by: bobito9
water purification - 03/19/16 08:58 PM
I know this is a topic that likely gets kicked around every year, but how about a quick run-down of everyone's favorite system and why. I'll start: for about 4 or 5 years now I have used a steripen adventurer, with a iodine tab back-up. The back-up unfortunately has proven necessary a number of times due to steri failures, usually because my batteries fail. I'm not saying this is the best system, but I find it very convenient and lightwight when all is going well. I am wondering if I should give a Sawyer a try,though, but it looks like a hassle.
Posted by: Pika
Re: water purification - 03/19/16 09:24 PM
I backpack a lot to in my home state of Arizona. It's dry here and even in the mountains water can often only be found in small pools below a rocky, bouldery stream bed surface. I use a MSR Sweetwater pump-type filter in these situations because it is easy to lower the water pickup into a pool well below its guardian rocks even though I can't get my hand in there. I use chlorine dioxide tabs as a backup and to neutralize the off flavor of stagnant water. When in wetter mountains, such as the Sierra, I use a Sawyer Squeeze or a Steripen (for short trips) and ClO2 as backup.
Posted by: toddfw2003
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 12:57 AM
I play it safe by using a sawyer mini and then also iodine/ascorbic acid. I know it may be over kill in the US but better safe than sorry unless im pulling water from an alpine lake about 11,000
Posted by: Rick_D
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 12:58 AM
Have used it all and acquired a ginormous collection of treatment gear, but the Sayer gravity system has been my go-to the last few seasons. So long as that sucker doesn't clog it's a pleasure to use because it's not labor-intensive and adds no taste to the water.
Next favorite is UV with prefiltering (as required).
Cheers,
Posted by: JustWalking
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 01:14 AM
I've been using a Steripen for a few years now, love it. I carry some Aquamira tabs as a backup, but haven't used them yet, except in the dead of winter.
Posted by: BrRabbit
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 03:01 AM
My main water treatment is boiling. First, because it costs me nothing, second because I might be melting snow.
I carried Aquamira as a backup, but did not need to use it.
I owned Sawyer Gravity,but did not like its speed - too slow for me for a quick refill on a stop, and if it's a longer stop - I can boil. Replaced it with Sawyer Mini for a quick refill of the water and think it is perfect for me, and I will use it every trip.
Boiling water does "cost" something- fuel, which also weighs something, perhaps a bigger pot, and time, which may be short.
I use chlorine tabs and sometimes take a small Sawyer Squeeze. I only purify drinking water- about 2 liters per day, not cooking water. It takes some practice to figure out a routine with chlorine tabs because they take 4 hours to fully purify, half hour for partial purification.
I am lucky that most places I backpack have good water and I do not even purify at all much of the time. It is all a matter of risk reduction - not a 100% necessity. A few swigs of less than ideal water have not seemed to caused any problems.
I have a steri-pen but have not used it. I do not like the idea of carrying batteries.
Posted by: Slowfoot
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 11:56 AM
I use the Micropur chlorine dioxide tablets. The wait time is not ideal, but I can almost always find clear water so I don't necessarily wait 4 hours if the water is not extremely cold. Ease of use and nothing to fail or maintain are the most important factors for me. I can't taste anything from chlorine dioxide, although I always treat my water so I haven't compared it to untreated water. If I ever did a really long trip, I might consider something else due to the cost.
Posted by: bluefish
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 12:53 PM
Sawyer Mini with boiling (non-free
) as an emergency back-up. I've never had to. I carry 2 squeeze bottles, don't bother with a gravity system. They also carry water for cooking, and one acts as a back-up if I have a blow out. I carry a coffee filter for sediment and the syringe for back flushing on longer trips. I've been using the syringe to get rid of the water that stays in the filter, as it will remove almost all of it.
Posted by: bobito9
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 12:55 PM
I notice various people opt for chlorine tabs. I've heard people say they like the flavor better than with iodine, but iodine only takes an hour at most, I believe, to do the job. The flavor is tolerable to me, if not as good as nice fresh mountain water. Years ago, they use to say to use 1 tablet, 2 if the water is really questionable, but now they just flat out say to use 2 tablets, which does taste bad. I still use 1 tablet. Maybe I should try chlorine though.
I have started drinking unpurified water more and more in recent years, at least at high altitudes. Strange how I have this feeling of fear when I do so! It shows how alienated we are from our connection to nature that we can fear simple water (or maybe that's just me
Actually, it's kind of liberating to just say you're going to drink nature's bounty without processing it. But of course, there are too many places where human and livestock contamination IS a problem.
Posted by: Rick_D
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 01:00 PM
Iodine is ineffective against cysts if that's a concern, and a couple logs less effective against bacteria than ClO2. I can't abide the iodine odor but the neutralizer tabs work pretty well.
I can also smell ClO2 after use, but overall it's less offensive for my palate.
YMMV
Posted by: BrianLe
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 01:02 PM
I've long be a user of the liquid form of Aqua Mira. On a recent trip in Florida, I bought a Sawyer system, setup to use as a gravity feed (but can just squeeze it if time is a factor). Because my hiking friends were using this and I was impressed by it.
It's not that much heavier than the chemicals, and I like the fact that I can backflush it to keep the filter going for relatively forever. Given these factors in place, it's particularly helpful on longer distance hikes to not have to worry about running out of or resupplying the Aqua Mira. And I've had a case or two where I found one of the bottles slowly leaking so that I ran out of one of the two needed little bottles well before the other.
So while I have little experience with it, I'm optimistic about the Sawyer approach. The mini is better in a way, but struck me as too much effort, so I'm optimistic about the Sawyer Squeeze.
On trips where I think the water quality might be particularly sketchy --- filling out of cattle watering pools, for example --- I'll bring the Aqua Mira too, but perhaps repackaged into mini-bottles. Such as:
http://gossamergear.com/mini-dropper-bottles.html
Posted by: balzaccom
Re: water purification - 03/20/16 08:27 PM
We've used the Katadyn pump filter for years. Then we switched to the Sawyer Squeeze, and like it a lot. Very small, very light. I've developed a technique that allows me to prop it under one leg and let weight do most of the pumping---and we use the larger 64 oz. bags. That way we can stop and fill those up whenever it's available, and pump later when we feel like stopping.
We also carry Aquamira, but we learned in Peru that those take longer than we like to wait. And yes, we have a stove so we could boil as well.
Posted by: AlanL
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 08:50 AM
I've been using the Katadyn Hiker PRO for as long as I can remember. There is typically 3-5 guys in my group and we all share the filter. I've never had an issue with it and my crew tends to use a lot of water.
I'm also considering trying the Sawyer to see if its worth shaving a few ounces.
Posted by: balzaccom
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 10:54 AM
The only issue we've ever seen with the Katadyn Pro is that sediment in the water can clog up the filter pretty quickly. A friend of ours used his once in the Grand Canyon without pre-straining the water, and the filter was clogged for good.
When we are concerned we rough filter all water through a bandana first, then pump. Seems to work.
Posted by: AlanL
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 11:15 AM
Mine has a small screen filter on the end of the intake hose. Maybe I've just been lucky but so far its taken care of the larger partials. Does yours have one? Looks like this
http://www.waterfilters.net/katadyn-8013197-prefilter-strainer.html The only issue we've ever seen with the Katadyn Pro is that sediment in the water can clog up the filter pretty quickly. A friend of ours used his once in the Grand Canyon without pre-straining the water, and the filter was clogged for good.
When we are concerned we rough filter all water through a bandana first, then pump. Seems to work.
Posted by: 4evrplan
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 11:41 AM
I've only ever used a Sawyer Mini. It's a bit of a hassle though, because I only have the smaller pouch it came with. I'll get a couple of the 64oz bags at some point.
Posted by: rodwha
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 02:54 PM
I see time is often mentioned, which is why we bought a Platypus Gravityworks, which was quicker than many of the others we saw.
Though I was only filtering 2-3 liters at a time it didn't seem to take as long as stated in the video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B3d7zkM8hMA
Posted by: rodwha
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 03:00 PM
"It shows how alienated we are from our connection to nature that we can fear simple water (or maybe that's just me smile Actually, it's kind of liberating to just say you're going to drink nature's bounty without processing it. But of course, there are too many places where human and livestock contamination IS a problem."
The British had terrible water centuries back and would brew what was called a table beer for everyone to drink in place of water that was usually less then 3% ABV. I'm not really sure why they didn't just boil it though. But then who doesn't like beer?
Posted by: BrRabbit
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 04:04 PM
I live in Wisconsin, so I can burn wood... So, whenever I can make a campfire and boil water - I'll go for it, and then it is free. Or I'll cook with untreated water in the evening - same thing, it's free. Or I will boil water for coffee - it takes same amount of fuel to boil it, whether it's treated previously or not (and coffee is my lunch drink whenever I can have lunch).
So, essentially boiling is my preferred method of cleaning water whenever I have time to do it. And if it would "cost" me a bit of extra fuel, that's OK with me too.
But I do bring variety of backups for when I'm short of time, on the move and out of water now.
Posted by: ndsol
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 06:08 PM
I noted the following almost two years ago and I don't think much has changed since then about efficacy of AquaMira liquid:
Aquamira Liquid is not intended for our needs as backpackers. The only liquid solution I know of that is a purifier is what is made by the MSR Miox.
All one has to do is look at the Aquamira site to see the difference: �When used as directed, Aquamira Water Purifier Tablets meet the EPA guidelines for Microbiological Water Purifiers making it the safest solution on the market.� But for the liquid, Aquamira makes the following claim, �Aquamira Water Treatment treats drinking water using chlorine dioxide to kill bacteria, control the build up of slime and improve the taste of stored water.� It is only designed to ensure that already potable water remains such. That is not what backpackers are trying to accomplish.
According to the site, "Recently Aquamira procured the EPA registration for the base chemical from the supplier and we are now in the process of submitting our own label with appropriate claims to the EPA. This is a lengthy process, and requires every claim to be backed up with test data. Some of the data was not available from the bulk supplier and must be supplied by Aquamira. We expect this process to take up to a year from now to complete." It has been about three years since Aquamira's prediction as to when the process would be complete, which is three times the amount of time at the longest. Yet still no EPA registration.
What is clear is that the drops have not been registered with the EPA (unlike the tablets) and, as such, their efficacy for killing the nasties to EPA requirements is unproven. As such, why trust an unproven product that is not marketed for backpackers' uses? That is not a risk that I am willing to take given the plethora of reasonable alternatives available. I don't mind people buying the liquid, but only as long as their eyes are wide open to its limitations.
I think that anyone that recommends AquaMira liquid without noting its limitations is doing a disservice to our fellow backpackers. YMMV
Posted by: JustWalking
Re: water purification - 03/22/16 06:16 PM
According to the Aquamira site, the liquid is registered with the EPA, and the liquid info page claims it's good for hiking/camping/etc.
http://www.aquamira.com/products/aquamira-water-treatment-drops/Aquamira Liquid is not intended for our needs as backpackers. The only liquid solution I know of that is a purifier is what is made by the MSR Miox.
All one has to do is look at the Aquamira site to see the difference: �When used as directed, Aquamira Water Purifier Tablets meet the EPA guidelines for Microbiological Water Purifiers making it the safest solution on the market.� But for the liquid, Aquamira makes the following claim, �Aquamira Water Treatment treats drinking water using chlorine dioxide to kill bacteria, control the build up of slime and improve the taste of stored water.� It is only designed to ensure that already potable water remains such. That is not what backpackers are trying to accomplish.
...
What is clear is that the drops have not been registered with the EPA (unlike the tablets) and, as such, their efficacy for killing the nasties to EPA requirements is unproven.
...
I think that anyone that recommends AquaMira liquid without noting its limitations is doing a disservice to our fellow backpackers. YMMV
Posted by: bobito9
Re: water purification - 03/23/16 12:44 AM
Let me know when you come up with a recipe that can be brewed up quickly in the backcountry, I'll be happy to test it
Posted by: ndsol
Re: water purification - 03/23/16 07:49 AM
First, if it did what many perceive that it does, then I'm sure that every competitor would like to know the secret of how Aquamira liquid can work in 30 minutes or less while every other chlorine dioxide mixture takes up to four hours (including Aquamira tablets).
But note that all it claims to do is "kill odor causing bacteria and enhances the taste of stored potable water." Note that it doesn't say "purify" as the tablets do, because to do so would be illegal and untrue.
As for the
EPA Registration, here is what the application says:
A 2% Aqueous Solution of Chlorine Dioxide for Use in controlling the Build-Up of Slime in water storage containers. Kills Odor-Causing Bacteria and Enhances the Taste of Stored Potable Water.
That is not all that we as backpackers are faced with when we pull water in the backcountry.
Posted by: rodwha
Re: water purification - 03/23/16 10:38 AM
I'd think that a very low ABV beer such as what they made could be produced in short order as they'd have been fairly simple, and with little sugar to convert, done rather quickly not needing much time to condition. I'd be willing to bet it could be ready in about 17 days, however it would need a cold stream to help keep the fermentation temps in check unless you used a Belgian yeast. Farmhouse ale!
I have a 2 gal Igloo I first used as a mash tun. It could double as the fermentor, and the bottles could be individually primed. Hmmmm...
I actually bought some Mr Beer bottles for this. They are plastic and dark amber. I've yet to try my beer in the backcountry. I figured I'd make something like an old ale or barleywine for that.
We found cartons of wine and tried a Merlot last outing. Also have been planning on making mead or fruit wine for this.
Posted by: JustWalking
Re: water purification - 03/23/16 01:30 PM
That's a good point - the liquid doesn't say purify. The tablets, in the MSDS, says:
1.2. Relevant identified uses of the substance or mixture and uses advised against
Use of the substance/mixture : Recommended use*: Approved only for uses listed on the FIFRA label.
* The “Recommended use” identified for this product is provided solely to comply with a Federal requirement and is not part of the seller's published specification. The terms of this Safety Data Sheet (SDS) do not create or infer any warranty, express or implied, including by incorporation into or reference in the seller's sales agreement.
Kinda strange as well.
I don't use the liquid, though I have in the past. Not sure I will in the future, so thanks for bringing this up.
First, if it did what many perceive that it does, then I'm sure that every competitor would like to know the secret of how Aquamira liquid can work in 30 minutes or less while every other chlorine dioxide mixture takes up to four hours (including Aquamira tablets).
But note that all it claims to do is "kill odor causing bacteria and enhances the taste of stored potable water." Note that it doesn't say "purify" as the tablets do, because to do so would be illegal and untrue.
As for the
EPA Registration, here is what the application says:
A 2% Aqueous Solution of Chlorine Dioxide for Use in controlling the Build-Up of Slime in water storage containers. Kills Odor-Causing Bacteria and Enhances the Taste of Stored Potable Water.
That is not all that we as backpackers are faced with when we pull water in the backcountry.
Posted by: WVhiker
Re: water purification - 03/31/16 12:33 AM
I like my MSR miniworks wish I would have got the sweetwater since its a little lighter. But it works great and i like that it screws right onto my wide mouth kleen canteen.
However in all honesty if i had to do it again i would probably get the sawyer.
I used to filter then boil or use tabs but after a long days hike in mid July heating up that beautiful Appalachian mountain water or tainting it with tabs just don't seem right. Now all I do is drop a line in pump for a minute or two then enjoy some delicious ice cold water.
Posted by: bob13bob
Re: water purification - 06/09/16 04:37 AM
steripen is only as good as the batteries you put in it according to its users. try quality batteries, when in cold weather, warm them up close to your body.
I use aquamira. 7 drops of A, then B in for each liter.
i also ahve a sawyer mini, it's easy to use. you just screw on top of your aquafina or smartwater bottles like a fat straw. however i backpack in heavily trafficed areas, so the filter not good enough for me. chemicals can deal with dirtier water.
boiling takes too much fuel and is a hassle.
Posted by: ndsol
Re: water purification - 06/10/16 05:01 PM
I use aquamira. 7 drops of A, then B in for each liter.
i also ahve a sawyer mini, it's easy to use. you just screw on top of your aquafina or smartwater bottles like a fat straw. however i backpack in heavily trafficed areas, so the filter not good enough for me. chemicals can deal with dirtier water.
You may want to review my two posts above before you continue to rely on AquaMira liquid. Why do you believe that the sawyer mini does not "deal with dirtier water"? Besides viruses, what do you believe that AquaMira takes care of that the sawyer mini does not?