Kifaru UL backpack?

Anyone use a Kifaru bp? I was asking for info on winter packs at another bp forum and Kifaru was mentioned. Seems to have a very nice pack, pricey. Much lighter than big brands too by half. I was looking at the KU5200, almost 3 lbs. Golite has a nice pack too, the Terrono at 4.8 lbs. I want to replace my old Epperson pack I've had for 20 years, which I believe has a capacity of 5500 ci, or around 90L.
http://www.kifaru.net/KU5200.html
Duane

I don't know how much you plan to carry, but there's more to buying a pack than how much it weighs. An ultralight pack will weigh two pounds or more less than a "traditional" pack - but much of that weight savings often comes at the expense of the suspension. There's nothing wrong with that - just don't expect an ultralight pack to carry a 40-pound traditional load.

Ultralight packs are usually designed to hold and comfortably carry a load of ultralight gear. That means things that are more compact, and the maximum weight it's designed to comfortably carry is perhaps 25 pounds. If you try to put a 40-pound load of bulkier gear in it, you'll end up with a hipbelt that will buckle or slip, and a suspension that will collapse and never let you get the weight off your shoulders.

The reason those other packs weigh two or three pounds more is that they have a beefier suspension designed to handle the load - way overkill for an ultralight load. Match the pack to your load.

You probably already knew this. It wasn't my intention to insult your intelligence; if I did, I apologize.

Glenn, I've noticed many packs, shelters going up in weight for a few years now, must be something to it. However, I see Kifaru is stating it will carry more, comfortably. Wasn't looking for a pack that light. I agree some on the heavier packs. One of the gear testers I bp with likes Osprey I believe it is. I'm still holding off and doing some research. Also, the ultralight packs only state they are good for 20 lbs, not suitable for me in the Sierra.
Duane

One of the differences between a lightweight framed (not frameless) pack with good suspension and "standard" packs is that the lightweight version is simpler--no zippered pockets, no separate sleeping bag compartments or other frills and furbelows which add considerably to the weight. Lightweight packs are also made out of lighter materials such as dyneema. Not all lightweight packs are frameless--there seems to be quite a bit of confusion here on this point. Frameless packs, for most, start getting uncomfortable at about 18-20 lbs. (for me, at about 5 lbs.).

It does appear that one of the Kifaru packs' claims to lightness is what they will do to your wallet. Looking through their website, I admired the packs but got a bad case of sticker shock! If I were looking for a new pack (I'm not) with similar features, I'd start with ULA.

Several manufacturers of frameless packs have recently added lightweight framed packs to their inventory that will comfortably carry 30-35 lbs. Examples include ZPacks (Exo), Mountain Laurel Designs (Exodus FS), Hyperlite Mountain Gear (Windrider). Six Moon Designs and Gossamer Gear have long had packs with removable stays or hoops that can be either frameless or framed. My pack is a 2005 model Six Moon Designs Comet (now discontinued) which (with the stays) carries 35 lbs. quite comfortably (discounting the fact that my knees and feet were screaming when I was forced to carry that much!).

Pack fit, though, is almost as individual as shoe fit, so you will want to try lots of different ones (with your gear packed inside) to find the one that is perfect for you.

OM, I was questioned on BPL on whether I needed such a large pack. I'm going off of what my old pack was supposed to be. The Kifaru's are pricey that's for sure. I'm still looking for more options. What I've seen in the ul packs, is they state only good for what I would carry on a summer overnight trip. I'll dig deeper.
Duane

I'm looking at McHale's backpacks - I like the fact they have add ons if I need more space and roll down / compress when I don't. Weight of bag and weight bags can carry seem to be good.

I don't have one and they are very pricy - but I'm going to open discussion with McHale (oh and the "accountant" (hubby)) =) I tried on everything at REI and the only thing that was comfortable for me was the Deuters - which were heavier than what I have now...

I'm trying to recall, was this the Mountainsmith dude who sold the company to go huntin'? If so, the packs probably fit and hold up well.

As to why somebody wants a such giant ol' pack, be it a hundred bucks or (cough) six-hundred, I'd speculate fit is very, very important. I'm just glad it's not me toting the thing.

Cheers,

You're right - I forgot to include that in my previous post. Granite Gear is a good example of a company that kept fairly beefy suspensions on its packs, and lowered the weight of the pack by eliminating zippers, lids, outside pockets, and inside dividers. They will carry 30+ pound loads pretty well; I used a Vapor Trail for several years happily; the fixed suspension eventually quit fitting right (I suspect the culprit may be me: I seem to have shrunk about half an inch or an inch over the last 15 years - didn't think that would start happening until I got old. )

Now I've shifted to the Osprey Atmos/Kestrel series, which weigh about three and a half pounds, have a decent suspension for 25 - 30 pound loads, and have a reasonable feature set. They're lighter than the 5 pound packs, but not as light as the Exos/Talon series that Osprey makes. Those packs are ultralight and have nice feature sets - but wimpy suspensions. I tried both and gave up on them because I couldn't get my load below 20 pounds consistently.

Like everything else, packs are a series of compromises.

These guys make good stuff. I don't have any of it, but know a number of people who do and are very happy with their acquisitions. Not too heavy, but durable/functional. I went to the company home page; read about what they considered in the design of the pack. Sounds like they did their homework to me. Problem is I would want to see the pack in person before I fully committed. Check out the return policy or contact them to find the nearest rep.

Yes, indeed, Patrick Smith is the Mountainsmith dude. Ive bought several of his MS packs and I like them a lot, including a large expedition size that i have had for the last twenty years, although I am not using it a lot lately.

Kifaru is too rich for my blood and he does seem to cater to those for whom just the right pack is very important

Rick, that is correct, he is in contact with mtnsteve from our N. CA bp group.
Duane

I would like to get one, but the price is WAY out of my range. In fact I would have to seriously think about a Mchale before I got a Kifaru.

If you want a big winter pack, why not look at something like a used Kelty Cloud? Jim Shaw has one and they show up on eBay and on buy/sell forums once in a while. Another choice would be an Osprey Aether 90. I've tried one on before and really liked it.

For winter, at least in my opinion, a big pack is for bulk, not weight. I can't carry a heavy pack anyway, so I have used a sled and don't need a huge pack. On snow, unless you are doing a lot of steep up and down hills, a sled makes more sense. Jim has one also, a Mountainsmith, if I remember right.

Tom, as a matter of fact, I added a Osprey Aether 85 to my list. Plus, it is cheaper than the Kifaru. The large is real close to what I think I need, but I would have to get a smaller hip belt. You are right, bulky items make for a big pack. I've had more than one fellow bper lift my pack and be surprised.
I should add, I would prefer a top loader, the Aether has a zippered access also.

Duane
There is one White Cloud on eBay now, starting price $250.00, but capacity is about what my summer pack is.

Duane, I think the Cloud came in two sizes. Jim has the bigger one, I'm pretty sure. You can still find websites with it on them, but of course, no one has them-here's one-
http://www.backcountry.com/kelty-cloud-backpack-5250-cu-in-kel0127

This site has a history of them-
http://www.weasel.com/gear_kelty_spectra.html

There were different sizes under different names over the years.

The Aether 90 is the older version of the 85 if I am correct. I remember seeing them at REI years ago, along with the Aether 70. The 90 just seemed too big, but that was before I got into winter camping. I saw the 85 on eBay. All those Aethers on eBay look like new ones.

Tom, when I make my move, I'll either have to buy something site unseen more or less or get a pack in Reno at the REI there so I can try it first. I can also use some heavy duty safety pins placed along the zipper line on my pack.
Duane

I could see using something that huge for puffy winter stuff. Somewhere in my pile o' crap I have an Osprey Xenith I bought for that purpose and have never once used. Unlike the Kifaru it's freaking heavy, so there's that.

I'm hoping Ospreys become collectable in Japan like Gregorys were for awhile, and I can make a bundle ebaying it off to some zealot in Yokahama.

cheers,

I had a Bora 80, got it in trade for some work. Used it twice, then sold it on eBay. The problem with that pack is that while it was really well made, it was very heavy and just didn't fit me right-for one thing the waistbelt was really stiff and uncomfortable. So, regardless of the price (and the Bora 80 is an expensive pack), fit is everything. Now that we are talking about packs, I might start looking for an Aether 90 myself.

I have a Kelty Flight. Mine is somewhat like the Cloud, but made from a different material (Spectra 210, which I think is also called Dyneema). It is very light, big pockets that clip on, but the harness design (how the stays are made and the front tensioner straps) and top pocket are poorly thought out. It is comfortable, but could have been way better with a bit more effort. Got it here used.

I found this review of my pack that John Macri, who used to be a moderator here a few years ago wrote-
http://www.thru-hiker.com.ws015.alentus.com/reviews.asp?subcat=8&cid=27

He has the same complaint that I do about the pocket.

Where are the old Kelty frame packs? I mean in the winter, if you are not skiing, why does everyone think they need an internal? In winter the problem is bulk - winter pads and sleeping bags, a coat and down pants etc etc. The stuff can weigh 50 pounds, 40, or 30, but no one is getting under 30 pounds for a real winter pack without spending $3,000, and it might take 6,000 to 8,000 cubic inches for all that stuff, even prestuffed into smaller stuff sacks. TomD had a huge pack when we went into Yosemite AND he pulled it on my mountainsmith sled, AND we went through all of his gear the night before and left a bunch of it in his car. If you are like TomD, you don't have specialised winter gear, so you will be doubling up on Summer gear. Think - could you cram twice as much stuff into your regular summer pack? Buy a cheapo BIG frame pack just for the winter, unless you're going out winter climbing. Kelty one time made an optional wrap around feature for the white phantoms that added about 4,000 cubic inches to eaach side of the pack. Think - a pack over 10,000 cubic inches and weighs about 4-5 pounds? Or when I was 24 I sewed my own pack and put it on a frame - make a winter pack, buy a frame, OR buy a large frame pack and sew stuff sacks to the outside.
Jim

Who was it that made that frame pack with the 3 bags on it-LuxuryLite, something like that? That one would work for winter. I still like a sled, even though on hills it is a real pain to deal with, but for flats, a sled works great.

TomD
is this it? Looks cool to me, and I have no affiliation but it is a great idea that anyone could do.

http://luxurylite.com/radlitepackindex.html

Jim

Yeah, I think it was Luxury Lite, which took horizontal bags, including a canister.

Alternatively, there were the Dana packs that held a drybag as the main bag and would take them in varying sizes. ULA makes the similar Epic, but without the Dana's beefy frame. [Edit: the Epic recommended max load is 40 pounds, so perhaps....]

Now Jim, that is just a stupid idea. Why would anyone in their right mind strap a bunch of big bags to a frame?




Oh wait, never mind. I did that this last summer, mostly cuz I was taking my kids and I needed to carry 2 sleeping bags, 2 shelters, food for 3, etc. If you look at the 2nd picture, the bottom stuff sack is actually my winter stuff sack. In the picture it has my quilt, my son's bag, and my hammock, with a few cloths inside. That is probably the only way I could carry my huge winter sleeping bag on my back. In fact, last winter, I put the frame in my sled, just in case I had to carry it.