Opinions wanted

Hi, Guys-

I'm planning a 6-8 day backpacking trip and want to cache food at the half-way point. I have a Bearikade, but am afraid it will be stolen. They are expensive enough that it would be worth a local vandal's time and gas expense to go home and get bolt cutters, then sell the can. This, unfortunately, is a high-vandalism area, so we are not able to leave cars even in the daytime in local lots. I'm thinking that chaining an ammo can to a tree and disguising it with leaves and brush in an out of the way spot is the way to go.

Opinions? Suggestions?

CamperMom

The ammo can idea could work. It should be bearproof. Chaining it to a tree should also help keep it from being dragged off. Your basic approach seems fine here.

Some further tips about caches.

Placing a cache near a road works best, if that option is available to you, simply to limit the distance you have to carry it when you set it out and when you retreive it. An ammo box is not light and is pretty awkward to carry very far.

You'll want it to be entirely out of sight from the road or the trail, as in unnoticeable. Just setting it behind a convenient fallen log could be enough of a hiding place. Covering it over with large debris is also good.

Take some time to think out the placement and how you'll recognize the spot when you need to find it again. GPS would be plenty good enough, but if you don't have one, leave an unobtrusive marker, perhaps using natural materials arranged in a somewhat unnatural way. If you spend several minutes to memorize the placement, you should discover yourself walking right up to it without a moment of hesitation.

Make sure it isn't in a place where it will overheat in sunlight.

Hide it in the bear cannister. Bag it so as to minimize odors/attractive smells from comming from it. I have met others on trial who do the same thing and that is what I do. If you are worried about finding it again, treat it like a geocach. Basically, I am seconding aimless.

Ammo cans are what are used at the Boulderfield campsites on Longs Peak to keep marmots and other critters out.

You may want to consider one of the odor proof bags sold for the Ursack. Otherwise you may find other small animals like raccoons may uncover it even though they cannot get inside.

If you are an increasingly memory challenged old geezer like myself (and you obviously are not) use your handy dandy digital camera to take some pictures of the cache as an aid to guide you to your food.

Be sure to have a plan B if anything happens to your cache. Ammo cans have worked for me against critters smaller than bears.

"There ae two things wrong with growing old. One is memory loss and I forget what the other one is..."

Paint stores will sell you unused paint cans at a very reasonable price. Lighter and easier to carry than ammo cans, but be sure and carry what you need to open it. I will not discuss how I know this tip.

You have gotten some excellent suggestions.

Do you use a gps? If so, I'd stash it in the container of your choice at least a quarter mile off the road/trail and use your concealment skills to render it not visible to anybody not literally atop it. Record a waypoint and perhaps take pics so you can easily find your way back.

For critterproofing, large rocks piled atop it should do the trick unless the area is frequented by highly skilled bears. I like the paintcan idea, as one 1-gallon can should hold enough for 3-4 days. I don't know if anybody uses metal paint cans any more, but rodents could conceivably chew on a plastic one. If you're ambitious, spraying it with a camo pattern could help conceal it.

Trying to secure it in sight of others probably guarantees it won't be there, so stealth would seem to be the way to go.

IIRC Colin Fletcher has information on caches in his book.

Cheers,

Just one last thought. If all else fails, and you conceal your cache and are unable to return to it, archaeologists of the future will benefit immensely. Your cache will probably be soneone's PhD dissertation....

I don't know your area but the black bears in my neck of the woods can peel off car doors. They would make short work of an ammo can which, unlike a proper bear canister, offers nice edges to give their claws purchase. And if left unattended they will have plenty of time to work on it.

I kind of like the METAL paint can idea (even though I am thinking a lot like trailrunner on this one). The one benifit is that you have a good chance of packing the thing and leaving no food oders on the outside if you do it right. Don't handle it bare handed, and make sure it maintains its metallic odor on the outside. If a bear finds it...food gone!

A Paint can would take no time at all for a bear to get into. A old style steel amo can may due but I think a persistent bear could get in that as well. Amo cans do seal well perhaps it would hide the sent enough? I would try it but hide it close to a road where I could hitch to get backup food!

I have no experience with caching food, so this may be of no use at all - or may be something you already considered.

How remote an area are you hiking? I'm wondering if you would be passing through, or near, a small town or village. Would there be a store or post office that would be willing to hold your cache for you? It might mean an extra mile or two of walking, but it would remove all doubt that it would be there. Of course, you'd need to time it to arrive when the facility was open. (And, if it's a store, it wouldn't hurt if you could buy something from them.)

Totally agree ken. The main point from me is that to use something this flimsy, you HAVE to make sure that no food odors exist. No food odors, no attraction. Easiest way to do that is to not introduce them in the first place. And maybe after sealing the can, spray the thing down with pepper spray. Just make it unpleasant to be around. Cause, as you say, if a bear decides to get in, its in.

And just to clarify my stance, a hidden bear canister would be my personal selection. I was just intrigued with the potential of using a metal paint can.

I think I've heard somewhere that pepper spray attracts bears after the fact, i.e. don't spray it on something (like your tent) and expect it to keep the bears away. It is, after all, based on a food product but in VERY concentrated form.

pepper spray attracts bears

Right, in regard to the residue. It makes sense that it does. To a bear it's just another smell and they are curious creatures when it comes to smells.

Appropriate use for pepper spray is discharging it as a dense cloud, in the face of a charging bear. Other uses are not effective.

As followup, I'm inferring from CamperMom's OP she's concerned with critters of the two-legged variety and is not confronted with Yosemite/Adirondack-quality bears (or bears in general in an area frequented by thieving, likely armed yahoos).

Smell-proofing is a good idea, regardless.

Last summer a friend and I came across a year-old camp in Desolation Wilderness, complete with canned food untouched by Sierra bears, so I know they don't find everything.

Cheers,

I've used ammo boxes for food caches in Missouri and Arkansas, where bears exist but are not seen very often. I've never had a problem with any kind of animal, but of course it's possible. I prefer to use a hole created by an uprooted tree if there's one nearby. Since you'll be back in less than a week, it shouldn't be too hard to memorize a landmark to help you find it.

Could you possibly do some orienteering to stash your food box? Find an obvious marker, orient your compass and store there. I am talking like 20 yards off the trail, nothing crazy. When you get back to the spot, just do a bit of orienteering and a short bushwhack walk to the spot...?

I am willing to bet that the vandals are not hikers...and most likely wont go in to the woods. Even if they are hikers, chances are they wont go in to the woods and stumble on your food either. Regardless, you win.

I've never tried this but i know of it working. If u have a GPS thingy whatsy Bury the cache a little ways of trail and mark the GPS coordinates. then batta-bing, when you get there unbury it. Like I said I have never had to do that and I dont have a GPS but i know of hikers who have done it so as to avoid in town shopping or mail drops. That is my opinion.

That the bears are attracted to pepper spray would make sense! After I stuck that in, I had second thoughts about it... . I put gloves on the dice up habanero chilies so I don't rub my face with it later, but I love eating the things.

If you're caching food, it would seem to indicate that pack weight is a concern. Wouldn't you have to carry something sturdier than a plastic trowel to uncover it - which means carrying unnecessary weight? (Again, I'll freely admit I've never cached, and that this question may be way off base.)

Even a month in advance, it's USUALLY not hard to use the potty trowel to dig the thing out. The only time I've snapped a plastic trowel is going #2...

Thanks. I didn't know for sure, so just thought I'd ask.

Wow!
Thanks for all of the replies. I still think my Bearikade would disappear with some two-legged critter. This is in a part of the AT with a bad rep for vandalism for simple meanness, as well as theft. Yes, to the OP Aloksaks. Was thinking of using these. No GPS available. Pic is a good idea. Hopefully, I will remember to bring a camera or my phone will be charged. Do you all remember Valcour? He was espousing paint cans as something that would not allow food odors to permeate the metal to the outside. I left food in a sealed can outdpprs in a few places that I know to be frequented by racoons. The can was totally unmolested. My food BAG with unused meals was by my back door and raccoons popped the screen door to get to it in the same time period. The paint can, disquised and with no spilled food, could very well work. An Aloksak liner would be even more protection, like suspenders with a belt.
Thanks, again!
CM

Get a 5 gallon plastic pail with a tight fitting lid

Bury it - GPS it.. done.

Ha, ha!

Old Ranger-Define old geezer. I'm over 60 and the friend with whom I will hike is over 70. We are not exactly spring chickens and can claim "menopausal memory" (or lack of) AND advancing years... Talk about a double whammy!

CamperMom

I have used one gallon metal paint cans in the Grand Canyon, but only for one night and there are NO bears there. Works great.

I have used a five gallon plastic paint can here in Colorado. In my opinion it is too big for a bear to bite into and thoses lids go on tight. Leave a screw driver with the bucket so that you can get into it.

I like to put luxuries into the can of things that are too heavy to carry like pudding cups, canned fruit and canned beans. It also is good for things that would get crushed in a pack like Twinkies.

Food volume always surprises me. I can get breakfast, trail snacks and dinner in three quart bags with room to spare, but there is only 20 quarts in a five gallon can. Add a few treats, extra batteries, stove fuel, hand sanitizer, etc. and it is only about a weeks worth of food for one person.

I can get my gear in a 40L pack pretty easy, but when you add a weeks food then I use a 60L pack. Maybe a weeks food is about 20 quarts.

I have three nights and four days food setting in my staging area right now. It fits pretty well into a two and a half gallon plastic bag that will go inside the Rat Sack.

I came across an abandoned camp in the Canadian Rockies that had been using five gallon buckets for food storage and it looks like the bears had no problems getting into those, If you are using a bucket you would need to burry it and even then no guarantees.

Yes, when you have opened and closed them a few times they are not secure. The first time you seal them they are very secure.

I believe they are airtight when sealed the first time.

NOT good for long term camp storage, but are good for a one time use cache.

In re: five gallon plastic paint buckets as bearproof caches.

All a bear would have to do to pop one open would be to sit on it, or bounce on it hard with its forepaws and its weight behind them. Your only hope would be to odorproof one and bury it, or else just trust to luck.

Depending on the level of bear activity and how human-tolerant the bears are, trusting to luck could be either a fairly good strategy or a hopeless one.

Aimless,I agree a bear would take less than a couple of minutes getting into even a factory sealed Five gallon pail or paint can. I do think perhaps with care to avoid oders and perhaps Burying?? You might be ok. I beleive in Murphys Law, what can and could happen does? I think a pail or bucket is askin for trouble? Good Luck!

Remember the "gamma seals" that were sold to seal 5 gallon buckets? I wonder how that would work. Expecially with the food and "smellables" in Aloksaks?

CM

Where are you going that is such a "high vandalism area"? Unless your really attached to this place I would say find somewhere less traveled where you do not have to worry about such things

Sections of the Appalachian Trail seem to attract vandals to the parking areas. If you look on-line, you will see warnings for GA, TN, VA, PA, probably more. AT enthusiasts keep on trekking, but they look for safer places for their cars and maybe rides to the trailhead.

CM