2010 Base Gear List: 13 pounds even.

BIG FOUR 121 oz (7# 9 oz.)
Back pack, Six Moon Designs, The Traveler 31 oz
Tarp, GoLite SylTarp, stakes, cord, ground cloth 25 oz
Sleeping bag, Sierra Designs Transition, 10°F 55 oz
Sleeping pad, Therma-Rest Z-lite 51” 10 oz

KITCHEN 29.6 oz
MSR Pocket Rocket and Fuel Canister 10.5 oz
Pot and pan, Trek 900 Titanium 5.6 oz
Spoon 0.5 oz
Water bag, 2 gal, REI base camp bag 3 oz.
Water filter: Timberline Filter and pump and hoses 6 oz
Cup, double-wall titanium 300ml 3 oz
Coffee filter, REI 1 oz

SMALL GEAR BAG 12.55 oz
Headlamp, Black Diamond Cosmo 2.8 oz
2 AAA batteries for spares 0.5 oz
Ziploc bags 0.25 oz
Space blanket 2 oz
Whistle 1 oz
Lip balm .5 oz
Matches in waterproof container 1.5 oz
toothbrush, floss, and paste 0.5 oz
hand sanitizer 0.5 oz
MEDKIT
prescription meds, ibuprofen, white tape, gauze 3 oz

PERSONAL BAG 4.5 oz
plastic jar 1.5 oz
wash cloth 1.5 oz
camp suds 1.5 oz

CLOTHING 33.5 oz
Rain gear: GoLite poncho tarp 7.5 oz
1 pr thin socks (double as light mittens) 1.5 oz
1 fleece pullover 8.5 oz
1 light longjohn pants 5.0 oz
1 long sleeve shirt 7.0 oz
1 knit cap 2.5 oz
1 pair warm gloves 1.5 oz

MISC 7.2 oz
Toilet paper 1.0 oz
Plastic trowel 1.7 oz
Compass: Silva Ranger 3 oz
Map .5 oz
2 plastic bottles 1.0 oz

GRAND TOTAL 208.35 oz (13.0 #)

- As you are aware, your sleeping bag is a little on the heavy side. You could save a Lb or more if you are willing to invest.

- Lighter stove, by switiching to an Alchol set-up. Save 2oz or more.

- Pot is also a little heavy. I would ditch the pan lid and use tin-foil to cover. This should save you an ounce or so.

- A 3oz/7L water bag is overkill IMHO for most 3-4 day trips. Look into Platypus' and save yourself 2oz.

- Nix the Ti mug and eat/drink out of your 900-- save 3oz.

- Nix the filter, look into instant coffee.

- Nix the spare batteries-- put a fresh set in the headlamp before you leave and you should be good for a week or more.

- Nix the space blanket. Save 2oz

- A 3oz FAK-- you could knock an ounce or two out of there.

- Nix the camp suds and hand sanitizer and pick up some Dr. Bonners soap-- and use it for all kinds of washing (hands, dishes and clothes). Repackage and save ounce.

- Nix the TP (Personal preferance)

- Nix the trowel. Use a rock, tent peg or stick. Save 1.7oz

- Cut the wash cloth in half and save an ounce.

- Plastic jar? What for? Nix.

Ditto Chris for most stuff. Also noticed that your raingear is listed as a poncho/tarp...try ditching the seperate tarp listed in your Big 4 and shave some more ounces there. If you wind up doing that, consider keeping the space blanket and using it as splash protection for what little moisture might creep in below the tarp.

Because I know you are toying with the idea of a hammock, a comparison. (Just food for thought, and there are lighter setups than mine.)

Warbonnet Blackbird 1.1 double layer: 28 oz (knocked a little off with a conversion to whoopie slings)
Two JRB 25F quilts: 40 oz
MacCat Deluxe: 13 oz
Total: 81 oz

OR

Blackbird: 28 oz
NeoAir medium: 13 oz
MacCat Deluxe: 13 oz
JRB quilt: 20 oz
Total: 74 oz

OR for really really cold outings:
Blackbird: 28 oz
0 degree 3/4 underquilt: 21 oz
JRB top quilt: 20 oz
topcover for hammock: 4 oz
large winter tarp: 21 oz

Pat
you didn't say where or when you would use this. If need that 10 degree bag then definitely do not nix the tarp. 1 oz of tp isn't enough. I don't see a need for a space blanket, but perhaps for a floor under that tarp. Its not really important to lighten up on 13 pounds, but you would save a lot with a 25 oz summer bag, if that's when you will use it. For short trips alcohol is ok to cook on. Depending on how you cook you may want a bigger pan.
Jim

If he really needs that 10 degree bag, then more insulation is needed than what a Z-lite provides and more clothing-- certainly something more substantial than thin socks, a fleece and long johns to get by at +10 and below. At that temp, I may also consider dropping the canister stove and go with my Whisperlite or Dragon Fly.

Unless it's compensation for inaccurately rated bags, which also happens. But it really is a heavy bag.

Not all of us can do the very expensive more accurately rated bags, but the Campmor 20F down bags seem to be a good compromise - I've heard they are good for 25F-30F, depending on the sleeper's comfort range. Personally tho I have found things like the Ray Way quilt kit (light but bulky) and other quilts are generally very good compromises, lighter but still warm enough.

you said nix alot

Gee whiz, tough crowd. I was hoping for something like this:

"Hey, great, Patrick, you got it down to 13 pounds! Welcome to the UL Club!" Yeah, Unwashed Louts.

But then nobody knows how I used to pound myself (no pun intended) with 60 pound loads. I was so excited to post this list... and what do I get?

Here's the thing - I am retired and recovering from complications to heart surgery. I'm okay, but it's been a tough 5 years, during which I found only occasional work. I live on SS of under a grand a month, so I have like $150 a month discretionary cash. That's practically the same as not having any money.

Of all the stuff on my list, I only need to purchase a few items:

the pack
the pad
the Trek 900
the coffee cup
the filter
the whistle
the match container and strike anywhere matches
the GoLite poncho tarp

Everything else - I have.

I was proud of myself for choosing to purchase the poncho, because it weighs so little compared to rain pants and jacket. I can use it as a wrap when I'm sitting under the main tarp on a cold, rainy, windy day on top of Jay Mountain. It covers the pack while hiking in the rain. I can stay dry while setting up camp in a sudden downpour. blah dee blah blah.

I plan to make trips to that mountain this year, starting next month. I'm walking daily to get in shape for it. I wear a loaded Gregory Miwok on my walks. Maybe 10-15 pounds, as I always carry the 100 ounces of water in the bladder, plus other stuff. So this gear list is for mid-April to late fall, or basically the months when there's no snow on the ground. Three seasons.

I hear ya about the bag, but it's all I got, and I'll use it like a blanket. If it's too warm, well, I'll uncover as needed. My priority is: GET OUT THERE. So, I'll get a lighter bag someday - the Campmor maybe? The SD Transition is a poor bag for 3 season, but it's a bag. It will do for now. At 13 pounds base weight, 4 pounds of food and coffee (I will not do without my French dark roast coffee, seasoned with honey and instant nonfat powdered milk, thank you very much), and a couple/three pounds of water, I'm at 20 pounds. I've never hiked with less than 45. EVER.

But hey, I know, I know. I'll trim the corners off my toilet paper to save a couple micrograms per dump. Really, I don't even want to know how you guys go without TP. Please, don't share. <shudder>

Uh, Chris, about the jar... did you notice it's listed under PERSONAL? Nicht? Same with my wash cloth. Trust me, you don't want to know any more about it. Let's call it "wound treatment".

Like I said, tough crowd.

Not much clothing, but if I'm moving, I've got enough. When I stop, I can put all my clothes on if needed, and with no wind I ought to be good. If not, I can wrap up in my bag and/or poncho under the tarp and be good to zero degrees. If I'm sitting around, I'll wrap up. The water bag is for the end of the day, for coffee, for a meal, for washing, for spitting. I'll have so much water, I may start a frog pond.

Nobody said anything about a 6 ounce filter/pump. I have the url. It costs $26. I used it for 20 years in Texas, multiple trips of several days to a week. Always worked. Timberline Filter. 6 ounces. $26. One micron.

Anybody ever use the SMD Traveler? I am so impressed with what I've read about this pack. It's under 2 pounds! I thought one of you smart guys might have mentioned that I probably wouldn't need the 5 ounce stays if I'm carrying 13 pounds with the z-lite suspension system. I guess you missed that part. Five ounces, ya know, is 141.75 grams.

If someone would buy my boots and GPS, I could buy a bag and save a pound and a half. That's almost 700 grams right there.

The Trek900 is too heavy??? Use aluminum foil, huh... Spartans R Us.

I thought somebody might suggest removing the handle from the knife, hold it with my teeth to save 30 or 40 grams.

I'm sure I missed somebody's keen observations of my list, so I'll have to come back. After I reload.

I'm glad I didn't mention that my socks are cotton, as well as my thermal long-sleeve shirt. It's better than going without one, ya know. Well, maybe not for this crowd.

I was so proud of myself for not including my 13 ounce bladder set-up, instead opting for two empty water bottles of the thin, light, plastic variety. Saved me 12 ounces. That's okay, I know I did good. I'll pat myself on the back.

Nobody wants to know what kind of cord? You guys gettin soft? Also, I have older stakes, they may be aluminum for all I know. And what's with a 3 ounce compass??? Real hikers use a leaf and a pin... 0.01 ounces.

You'll actually be carrying 20 lbs thereabouts - water will be the heaviest thing in the pack and 1.5-2 lbs of food per day will also have to be in there somewhere... and if you travel into bear canister required territory, add two pounds.

You could save a couple ounces on that pack by going with one of the cuben models like the ones at Zpacks.

Patrick, I am sorry that you feel the way that you do and that my criticism prompted such a knee-jerk reaction of name-calling. Nobody said that you need to do all of this, they are only issues for your future consideration, should you wish to trim more weight for whatever reason.

Up until a few years ago I was a broke law student purchasing all of my gear at Goodwill and the like, so I understand a limited fixed income very well. Hence why I never said go out and buy this or that. My suggestions for lowering weight was to leave stuff at home-- the cost of doing so is $0. In another thread I recommended the Campmor bag to you, which is a relatively inexpensive down bag, in this thread I just suggested an alcohol stove-- the cost is less than $10, even less if you make one from home! So I understand the need to be thifty.

Generally speaking, people who post gear lists want some feedback-- good, bad or indifferent. If you just wanted a pat on the back and a group hug for cutting gear and making sensible purchases then I apologize for not meeting your needs and reaching your expectations.


A 13 pound base-weight is awesome! Now go get out there and have fun!

The cheapest and quickest way to trim pack weight is to nix items from said pack. The cost of leaving an item at home is zero.

Of all the stuff on my list, I only need to purchase a few items:

the pack-- SMD make some great packs. Also take a look at Gossamer Gear's selction. I have their G4 and love it.

the pad-- I own a Z-lite and recommend one. Great for a make-shift camp seat also. No good for winter use however.

the Trek 900-- If money is a concern then may I recommend Anti-Gravity Gear's 3 cup or 2quart pot. They cost less than $15 and weigh less than 6oz. The Trek 900 is $45, so that is a huge savings of $30!

the coffee cup-- There is no need for a a $45 double-walled Ti mug either! May I suggest a $2 polypropylene cup from REI? Cheaper and lighter by .5oz. Save yourself $43 also.

the filter-- May I also suggest to you the AquaMira Frontier Pro. Weighs only 2oz and costs $20, saves you 4oz and $8.

the whistle- Does the SMD pack not come with a sternum strap whistle? If not then I have an unused orange Colman whistle that I could give you for the cost of postage. Save another buck or two.

the match container and strike anywhere matches: Personally I would go for a pack of waterproof matches and a mini-bic lighter, negating the need for the match container. Probably save you a couple of bucks too.

-the GoLite poncho tarp-- Good choice

Everything else - I have.



So far I have suggested $81 in monetary savings and a couple of pounds in weight loss; not bad for an unwashed lout

bordering on enough savings for the Campmor bag!

Chris -

you thought i was serious??? i'm so sorry!

"Patrick, I am sorry that you feel the way that you do and that my criticism prompted such a knee-jerk reaction of name-calling."

no, my post was carefully and painfully crafted to be funny. that's why i explained my situation, to show i was kidding. i guess i was too deadpan about it.

i'm proud to be an unwashed lout, myself, so it's an honor for me to include you.

you had good points (FAK, shaving here and there, etc), and I will refer back to your post as time rolls along.

patrick

I guess that is one of the downfalls of the internet-- humor is hard to detect without subtle hints.

No hard feelings though-- time to enjoy the warm weather with a cold beer I think. Have a good day, and have fun tinkering with your gear.

$83 in real savings! thank you, great tips that i will definitely use. thanks!

oh, the subtle clue of humor was "tough crowd". maybe too subtle. it's hard to be funny with the written word, for me, anyway. although... i do continually try it

brother lout

But then you would have to avoid any tree branches lest you rip the cuben pack to shreds.....

Hey PAt

If thats just a list and you don't even own the stuff, well dude my list weighs 3 pounds... Lists are interesting but don't really count. OTOH a lot of the real UL wennies don't even own the gear they claim, and never go out and use it anyway, so... oh well Since its a list, please use spectra cord from ebay. Get an aluminum pan and a plastic cup. Two blue foam pads will keep you warm, but not comfortable. Used sleeping bags are cheap. Don't waste money on a new space blanket. Nix the whistle, and for gods sake take more toilet paper. Ya wanna smell like a lout?
oh yeh - "match container and strike anywhere matches"? Get with the times dude, this is 1970 afterall - take 2 BIC lighters instead sheesh.
Jim
oh yeh and heres a big hug... why do you deserve a hug for writing theoretical list?

Pat-trick,
I am impressed with 13 lbs! It shows you've done your homework.

Regarding your bag, go with what you got for now and upgrade as you can. Depending on where in NY you plan to hike, you MIGHT could get away with a 30-40 degree bag and take appropriate warmer clothing to sleep in and a liner for the bag. This would allow you to use the bag during the warmer weather without the extra weight.

The GSI pot is a good recommendation. I use a Kmart grease pot and made a lightweight lid for it from the bottom of a disposable, aluminum roasting pan wrapped with windshield reflector material.

One other 'gram weenie' recommendation - swap out your wash cloth for a Clorox Handiwipe (reusable cloth ). They're large, lightweight and dry very quickly.

Throw 4 large safety pins into your kit. They're good for pinning stuff to your backpack to dry while you hike (e.g. socks).

I like the matches. I also carry 2-3 bic lighters (wrapped with duct tape) as JimShaw suggested. I also carry a Firesteel.

If you haven't already done so, look for some of Phat's post and look at the gear list in his signature.

Keep throwing things out there, some of it will stick.

Tango61

Dear Jim,

Can you please come hiking with me so I can get my bics to work? My frostnipped wimpy thumbs don't work right so I keep having to carry around these antiquated matches.

lori
with all due respect, most of the BICs are ummm - child proof. If you use a pair of needle nosed pliers you can pop off the offending piece of metal, and sure I'd love to camp with you and -ummm light your fire.
Jim

Tango, no self respecting gram weenie carries a firesteel. It serves no real purpose, like compasses or bowie knives. (:->)

I beg to differ. Most UL (gram-weenies') gear lists that I have seen have a firesteel listed because it can be used in all conditions. Bic's don't like the cold and matches, even waterproof/weatherproof, can not always be counted on-- but a firesteel will always create a spark.

The same goes for a compass. Lighter and more reliable than a GPS. The problem today is that the technique of using one is becoming lost (pun intended).

I digress, I was posting to mention bringing emergency tinder-- dryer lint, cotton balls in Vaseline, make-up remover pads etc. No need to spend $7 at REI on the stuff, the dollar store has the same products.

Oregon's only a state line away... and in all seriousness, I do like Oregon. Also like having my fire lit...

tho I suspect I am too old for you.

I have a firesteel! I use it when I am not in any hurry to light a fire.

Hey Lori, seriously come on up and BP with me in the Three Sisters Wilderness. I do not own a kilt but I can atleast get your fire lit for you...

I like to play with fire too, when I'm not in a hurry. I like to play with flint and steel and such, like I enjoy flaking arrowheads sitting on a rock by a lake, but its a fun thing to do and not really a necessary part of camping [ read un-necessary weight for no good purpose]. A BIC throws perfectly good sparks even if the fuel is cold or gone, put it in your pocket of hold it in your hand for a minute and it will out perform an $80 Calibri lighter. Two BICS is as close to a perfect full proof fire starting system as modern technology can devise.

Dryer lint, cotton balls with vasoline etc etc are fun toys in dry country. I live in rain forest country where only my snowpeak gigatorch at 15,000 btu plus can get a fire lit. So play with your fire strikers, but be aware that they only work under ideal circumstances and therefore do not qualify as real survival tools. Daniel Boone really liked his though, and he loved his Bowie knife and musket too. Sometimes I go on "primitive camping trips". I even have leather thong to tie my food into a tree, an obsidian knife with a deer antler handle, and a coon skin cap, but I'm not gonna try to tell you that its important camping gear.
check out my post on de-child proofing a BIC in general discussion.

Hey that G4 uses the same kind of Z-lite suspension as the Traveler, but weighs 10 ounces less, and costs $55 less. How much weight do you carry in it? Does it stay snug to your body regardless of the terrain you're walking? The G4 was the first bag that interested me in my perusal of bags. That would put me at 12 pounds without food or water. I like that.

I figured to carry a Bic with me in my pocket, didn't list stuff I would carry on my body.

Thanks for the tips again. I'll check into the A-GG pot and the REI $2 cup and the filter. I honestly thought my filter would be lighter than anyone else's. ha! Silly me. I will take you up on the whistle if my new bag doesn't come with one.

Jim Dude!

You missed something. I already have a tarp and a bag, just need a pack and a pad to complete the big four. Do you need reading glasses??? (I better enter here that I am messing with you, dude.)

And of the rest of the gear, I just need a few items: the poncho, the pot, the cup, the filter...

The point of my post was this: I did a bunch of "research" (reading) and have narrowed down my choices for some gear I lack. And it's all because of this forum. See? My post was a kudos to the forum.

Nobody understands me. <sniff>

(I am kidding again.) Maybe I need to go to the kitchen supply area of my neighborhood camping store and buy some humor pills?

And forget about the hugs, it's too late for that. My feelings are hurt now. (Humor)

I like to backpack and camp because the trees understand and accept me. Chipmunks, too.

<grin>

PS about the TP: I have no idea what that stuff weighs, i just gessimated the weight. I surely do want to bring enough. (I'll still cut the corners off, though.) (humor!)

does jerry seinfeld say "humor!" every time he says something funny??? <sigh>

You mean YOU DON"T HAVE A DIGITAL SCALE TO WEIGH YOUR TP?????

Flaily arms! Flaily arms!



(I borrowed one. )

I use the G4 and like it (although it's getting to be a bit too big for my overnights and weekend trips). The pack has always moved well with me once it was properly adjusted, and the silnylon fabric is tougher than I was anticipating (although I'm not ready to drag it behind my car yet).

As far as weight...some have posted that frameless packs are effective up to 30-35 pounds of weight, while others set that limit a little lower. I've carried up to 25 pounds in mine, and it worked, but wasn't comfy by the end of the day. But then again, I'm a wussy girly-man

I am just going to echo Gorge-- most frameless packs are comfortable over short distances with 30lbs in them, but of course yours and Gorge's comfort may differ from mine.

My base-weight is generally between 8 and 11 pounds depending on location, company and expected weather. I have had mine loaded up to 30lbs many times when I bring my fly-fishing gear and it has been fine for distances less than 7 or 8 miles. I probably wouldn't want to do a 10 mile day with that amount of weight in this pack.

If you need a little more weight handling ability, but less capacity, then GG's Gorilla also gets rave reviews-- it weighs a couple of ounces less than the Traveller, and costs $15 less too.

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/pack_matrix.html

I have a GG Mariposa Plus - it works really well for loads 20-25 lbs and has an aluminum stay. Top load limit is 30 and I have pushed that - but it's only comfortable for me at 25. And I have to be very careful in balancing the load, whereas a pack like one of Granite Gear's Nimbus series that has a beefier frame, piling everything in any old way won't make me suffer overmuch.

I have a persistent shoulder pain these days so have been taking the Granite Gear a lot of the time. The weight transfer to the hips is better on a framed pack. Part of balancing the load with the Mariposa involves snugging up the shoulder straps - no load lifters - so some of the weight ends up on the shoulders.

My pack is a very expensive job that is out of your price range and may not even be available - BUT - it is modular as in I can remove any parts of it.

One thing I have found is that if I want to carry over 20 pounds, its much more comfortable to add the wide waist band even without the internal support. Going up to maybe 30 to 35 pounds I leave out the support, but I were going over that I would put in the frame work to help put the entire load on my hips.

If you just use the pack as a sack with straps, you want it to have really good shoulder straps. Just an aside - in the old days we bought the wide hip belts separately and added them to our external frame packs. A wide hip belt on a minimalist pack sack would probably be an improvement.

Pat-rick. There is a single smiley face on the upper left of a long strip of funny symbols when you are posting. Click on it to get an array of smileys.
Jim

now
THAT is funny

The word is overengineered. Everyone knows when something is "childproof" you hand it to a kid to get it open, or working. And if you are a kid you just get matches. We always did.

Lori I had the bic I was carrying fail at 13,000 feet on the CDT so I hear you about lighters. Gallingly enough, some of the others in my group got theirs to work. I think it may be about the lighter having the necessary gas pressure to work in the lighter atmosphere. It wasn't that cold.

Jimshaw, I had a primitive thought about your leather thong! You could get double duty out of that if you wore it as well as used it in trees. I can't carry this motif any further but if anyone else wants to run with it...

If he wears it all day, then uses it to hang his food in the tree - well, remind me to cook for myself.

I forgot about that - restaurants and just about every store kept a bowl full of book matches by the register. We kids always tried to get one or two books when the parents weren't looking.

Kids today are too supervised. It's kind of sad to know that my grandkids can never go into their uncle's old Marine footlocker from WWII, find two hand grenades, take them outside, pull the pin on one, toss it between the houses, and run and hide for a few minutes, without some nosy parent stopping them to ask, "whatcha got there?" That's how we, er, I mean, "kids" learn the scientific method: form a hypothesis ("if this goes off, I have a real hand grenade left"), test it (described above), then modify the hypothesis based on the results ("cool, I've got two dud grenades to play war with.") Granted, the modified hypothesis has a hole in it - and not that I'd have any personal experience with this at age 10 or so...

Some days, it's just not safe on the internet.

Way to go with dual use, Jimshaw!

Wouldn't it be lighter in taffeta?

Oh, btw, i found that smiley thingee you told me about.

I have printed this list out for my next backpacking trip. I was terribly over weighted on my last trip, I won't even tell you how much it weighed.





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