Finnaly get to try it out.

I'm finnaly getting the chance to see how my gear works. I've been invited back to my old ROTC unit's winter survival drill this weekend. I'll be part of the survailence team thats ensuring everyones safety and making sure no one cheats the rules.

Its still a week away, but the forcast is reading 18, "Real Feel" of 12 with 15 mph winds and gusts to possible 25. Sounds like fun. My backpacking sleeping bag is a western mountaineering 30* bag. I'd like to keep to the backpacking stuff so what should should i do in yall opinion to keep warm?

I'm not sure yet if its a totally a unseen mission yet, so im not sure what yet about fire. but, mainly i'm looking for sleeping bag options.

Eat well, drink plenty of fluids, keep moving, don't let yourself get cold because it takes energy and time to reheat, stay dry, grab hot liquids when you get a chance.

I'd use a flannel liner for the bag (unless you want to get another WM rated for the temp you'll be in). And of course the all important layers. CCF under your sleeping pad if it is not insulated.

i've got the 48" thermarest prolite.

i think i'm gonna ride to the outdoors store wednesday and check some liners out

Your solo tent should add about 5 degrees of warmth (or, by blocking the wind, eliminate the Real Feel factor.) WM bags are usually rated about 5 degrees conservative, so the bag is probably a 25 degree bag in reality.

Wear dry, midweight or heavyweight long underwear tops and bottoms to sleep in; add a fleece or down jacket and pants if necessary. Also, wear heavier, dry socks and a stocking cap and balaclava (face mask) to sleep in. Make sure the socks aren't tight, since that will constrict blood flow to your feet and make you feel colder. I sometimes carry a separate pair of fleece or heavy wool socks for sleeping, and change out of my hiking socks. You can always add your raingear if it gets colder than anticipated; it holds more heat than you might expect. Just be sure you're not wearing so much clothing that you start to compress the down in the bag from the inside.

Put your empty pack under your lower legs, to extend your sleeping pad to full-length. The thick foam backpad of the Nimbus Ozone will keep your legs warmer. The Prolite Plus pad should be OK at 20 degrees; I've used one at that temperature before. However, if you're concerned, you might add a thin closed-cell foam pad under it.

If you're using a fire, and can arrange an "ideal" campsite, you'll have a large boulder or cliff reflecting heat back toward your tent, meaning that the little micro-climate you're in will be a couple of degrees warmer. Just remember: tents are flammable (spectacularly so; I saw one flare up at a Scout camporee once), so you'll want to be back from the fire a good bit - of course, the further back you are, the less heat reaches you.

Will you be camping at a fixed base, or near your car? If so, some of the extra stuff, like the second pad, can be left in the car for use if needed. Better to have a bit extra in the car that you don't use, than come up short.

I've been fine in Ohio at 15 degrees in January (ground frozen) using a Prolite Plus pad inside a Hubba tent, sleeping in midweight longjohns, balaclava, heavy socks, and a light down hoodless sweater in a WM Megalite bag. Unless you sleep really cold, or let yourself get overly tired, don't eat or drink, or get wet, you'll probably be OK.

Ditto what Glenn has stated. In fact, it echoes my experience almost exactly. Wind protection a tent provides, use of clothes to sleep in, rating of WM bags, etc. etc.

thank ya, thank ya that really helps out. I'll keep all that in mind. Should be pretty fun. I'm planning on going up to the smokies the next weekend, with snow on the ground, so that should be interesting...

At 15 degrees below the rated bag temp, I'd take a full length CCF pad to put under your Thermarest, sleep in at least long underwear if not also fleece, and take a hard nalgene bottle to bed filled with boiling water, but I sleep cold. Eat lots, drink hot drinks, stay warm, and have fun.

the new forecast is 10 degrees. i believe even though its a synthetic bag, and is heavy, i know it works. i'm going to take my 0* bag that i've slept to around 5* in and was pretty warm.

With the revised forecast, I think you're making a wise decision.

http://www.wistv.com/Global/category.asp?C=1683&nav=menu36_3


theres our forecast. it sounds like its going to be cold. i'm at 14 lbs 6 oz with food, so now i need water and clothes and i'll weigh again, but i think today i'm going to take out the WM bag and put in my big one. i know it'll be warm,.

That's exactly what I'd do. Have a good time, and let us know how things went.

Unless I were in a real survival situation and I do not mind trashing my tent, I would never put my tent anywhere near a fire. Small sparks land on the fly and make tiny holes that you will not notice. Very soon your tent will leak. This also holds true for placement of a tent anytime you use a fire - do not even put it downwind within the distance a spark could stay hot. Your decision to take a warmer bag is a better solution to the problem.

Good advice; I wish I had gone into more detail than "don't get it too close."

I haven't lit a fire for years, and don't find I miss them. How about you?

i normally do make fire when i'm out lightweight camping, for light, and warmth. when car camping, i stick to the flashlights and propane stove

For me, it's mostly laziness: fires are just too much like work.

You have to gather wood, build a fire, light it, watch it go out, relight it, then put it out when you're done with it - and carrying water to put it cold out when you make a dry camp is a real pain.

So, I simplify my life and go without fires.

well if you were a boyscout, you could build a fire and light it once. hehe.
i'll deffinately be building fire saturday night.

Be sure you have a really well-insulating pad--or pads--underneath! Maybe a CCF pad beneath the Prolite Plus. That can make all the difference between shivering most of the night and being cozy warm!

With the extra clothing, liners, etc. with the sleeping bag, just make sure you don't compress the bag's insulation, which will reduce the warmth and thus offset what you've added. Another possibility: if you have or can borrow a summer weight sleeping bag, you could drape it over the top of your 30* bag.

well to be honest, i've never been cold a night in my life when camping except one night i somehow unzipped my bag and it got stuck down...

and i've never owned a sleeping pad until now, and havent tried it out yet. so i have a feeling that this pad wll help, but i dont plan on being cold with or without it.
I camped atop mount mitchell last year and the last temp the guys in the site next to us saw as 8* at about 11PM.

Packed up minus water with the big bag.. i'm at 18lbs.
I figured probally 4 bottles of aquafina. i'm taking my dromlite bag, so hopefully i'll be able to get to the lake and filter some water, and i can put it directly into the bag.

I cant wait, i'm so excited..

Let me get this straight. You're going to sleep in 18 F. temps with a WM 30 bag?
My WM Megalite is a 30 F. bag and barely good to 25 F. even W/long johns.

You need a serious insulating layer over yer polar weight long johns, like 300 weight polartec pile pants and jacket.

I slept OK in my Megalite (a larger girth WM 30 F. bag) at 20 F. by wearing a Thermolite Micro poly fiber insulated pants and jacket but over midweight poly long johns. Beause the Megalite does have that larger girth wearing bulky clothing did not compress the down on top of me.

That was this October at Arapaho Pass, Colorado at 11.300 ft. and in a tent.

OK, WM bag inside the big bag. Now that sounds very wise and very comfy. Have fun!

What can I say? I did sleep in my Megalite, with midweight longjohns, heavy socks, and a balaclava, this last January, in Ohio. My guess is that conditions other than actual temperature might factor in: the night was still, in a sheltered campsite in the woods, with no precipitation. Might your other conditions have been a bit harsher, such that wind chill or other factors might make your 20-degree night?

Also, what kind of pad did you use? I was on a BA Insulated Air Core, with a Zrest backup (I forget if I used it on top or or under the mattress.)

Also, I don't sleep particularly cold - though I did start to get a bit chilly around 6am.

Now, I would point out this was not an intentional test. The predicted low was 25 - but predictions have a way of going bad. Afterward, I added lightweight down pants and hooded down jacket to my winter pack; I'm not eager to repeat the experiment.

no, i'm gonna be sleeping in 12 degree temps, with my synthetic 0* bag. my WM bag is sitting at the end of my bed. haha

so heres the email i got back after asking, i said i'd be hiking 10 miles

Ya know, I'm thinking that I'd have to be very careful with sparks from a Caldera Cone Inferno conversion around my winter tent.

Perhaps a screen mesh or even solid aluminum
"flap" secured on a rod-like hinge to cover the slot where one feeds the wood is an answer.

Hmmm... food for thought.

Glenn
I had a 30 degree bag and spent a night at -40 in it wearing a snowmobile suit and a light synthetic jacket and NO PAD! Fortunately I was buried by the blizzard, this was at the base of the Eiger in December. Oh sure I thought I was gonna die, but I did finally sleep, and wasn't too cold nor hypothermia when I awoke at sunrise. At least I think I awoke, if I died then I've had a really long bad dream.

PS I do not recommend this.
Jim

dont worry, i wont be... or at least until i become a testing engineer for The North Face...

This reminds me of my own days in the Air Force - instructors never lied, but they sometimes had a slightly different perspective on the truth. 10 miles, 30 miles, what the heck...

Also, I'm going to assume that, what with the separate campsite and all, the "XO" signature means Executive Officer, and not "hugs and kisses." (Sorry, couldn't resist. :D)

Should be a good trip - have fun, and let us know how things worked out.

yeah, that deffiately means executive officer.. although the CO is a woman... haha

Never thought of THAT angle!

But we stray afield here.

Sounds like you've got a great weekend planned. Hope it's warmer where you're going than it is up here (weekend high is supposed to be 14 - I'm staying inside, I think.)

Let us know how the trip goes.

of course , of course.

i'm so excited, like i am before any trip

i indeed had a great time. i slept in the tent with the XO and Instuctor Long. Since my contract is up, i got offered a spot as Midshipman. so, now i get to be staff. so that included eating steak, and pasta, and breakfast in the log cabin we rented for emergencies. I did use all my gear except my tent and it all preformed perfect. i love it, and cant wait to go again!

Glad it went well! Any chance of a detailed trip report? With pictures, maybe?

Glad the gear worked well. Midshipman - Navy ROTC? (That would explain steak and pasta on field maneuvers! All we ever got was C rations - which were several steps below MREs. My dad was in WWII; I joined in the late 60's - and I swear we had meals from the same lot number.)

How many miles did you end up traveling?

traveled with the backpack about 2 and the cadets did about 8 and I as a staff memeber did about 15 or more.