The WM of Backpacks?

There's always someone who is best, I guess. In sleeping bags WM and FF seem to pretty much be everyone's favorite - I chose WM and love it...

My current pack is a Cabelas brand external frame pack (which is necessary sometimes for hunting), it weighs 6.5 lbs and is 4200 CI (plenty big). Make no mistake, the camo Cabelas pack is VERY nice and comfy, but heavy and bulky.

I'm looking at a Gregory z55 pack. I've not been able to look at many packs, but looked at a 2500 cubic inch Gregory pack at bass pro yesterday and it sure was comfortable, just not big enough - I want a pack in the 3500 C.I. range.

Do ya'll have any recommendations. I think the Osprey packs look nice also, and I'm sure there are others.

Who makes the best pack for the money? Who makes the best packs (period)? Any complaints on the Gregory z55?

Thank ya'll.

NitroSteel

I use an Osprey Aether 70 and love it! It works well whether I am going solo with around 20lbs or with kids and around 35 lbs. Also look at include Granite Gear for supurb lightweight packs. Gregory packs don't fit me comfotably, just personal preference or the way I'm built. Lowe packs (hard to find, at least in my area) also work well for me. Mountainsmith is another brand that makes popular leightweight packs.

There are a number of criteria to consider in selecting a pack--and we need to know more before we can make recommendations:

--How much do you need to put into it? (You've answered this question, so I assume you have all your other gear and have measured what capacity you need for all gear plus a week's food.)

--What is the total weight you will carry (total of pack + all gear including. food, fuel and water)? You need to be sure the pack is rated to carry at least the maximum amount you might want to carry in it, or it will be very uncomfortable.

--Mostly on-trail backpacking, or bushwhacking through lots of brush?

--Your torso measurement? (From the bump on the back of your neck to a line level with the crest of your hip bones--don't try to measure this yourself--get someone else to do it)

Large-volume outdoor stores are not the place to buy a pack. Try to find an EMS or REI or a more specialized backpacking/mountaineering store in your area. Take all your gear (including the equivalent in weight and bulk of a week's food and fuel and a day's water) along and make sure you find a clerk who has lots of experience in fitting packs (don't let them palm you off on the part-time teenage help). Try on lots of different packs so you learn what fits properly and is comfortable for you. Packs are almost as individual as footwear.

Most of the best lighter weight packs are made by small individual entrepreneurs and sold only on the internet. That's where I ended up getting mine. You need to go through the above steps first, though, so you know how the loaded pack should feel and how to adjust it.

Please let us know the answers to the above questions so we can help you better.

I like my ULA Catalyst and my Osprey. Catalyst is 4500 or so and can handle bulk, but not much over 35lbs. The Osprey is an Atmos 50 and it is comfortable , but weight limit is about 25 - of course everything is subjective. I hear the Granite gear packs are pretty good. I also see a lot of positive posts about the Gregory packs. Maybe you can get Bearpaw to comment on your post - his suggestions are usually spot on. Of course he may need some more info to narrow it down. Good luck. One bad thing about ULA is that the owner is gone alot and its hard to get one - the other bad thing is that they are hard to get sized properly in some cases. Many posts support this.

Gregory has a Z65 pack - tried it on at REI the other day. It's a little larger than you're looking for but it might just do the trick. I had them load 40 lbs in it. Seemed okay in the store, but I didn't hike some miles in it either.

I have a Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus pack that hauls up to 30 lbs comfortably if you pack it right. The main body holds 3700 cu in - with the outside pockets giving you an extra 500 you can get up to 4200 in it. The empty pack weighs about 20 oz. Also it's quite a lot less expensive than a Gregory. The pack has two carbon fiber stays and uses either your sleeping pad (they sell those too) or a sit pad that comes with the pack as the backing. You can take out the hip belt, the stays and the pad and use the shock cord to compress the pack to smaller loads, or use any combo of them to support whatever weight you have to carry. If you need to carry more than 30 lbs you might want something with more of a frame.

I tried an Osprey Aura 50 (sister of the Atmos) - I hated the way the weight sat on my body. Just didn't fit right, despite being sized at REI twice. There were a lot of things I liked about the pack, but the curved frame made it too hard to cram the bear can in, and seemed to put the weight on the bottom aluminum bar to the point that going uphill I would find the pack tipping back and almost pulling me down.

I really like my Granite Gear Vapor Trail - very comfortable carry, simple design; does everything I want it to do, and only weighs 2 pounds. I find I don't miss the top lid; a couple of zippered "envelope" pouches hold everything that used to go in there. I've even forgotten to take it off at rest stops, it's so comfortable. The only annoying feature is the internal hydration system pocket - I find it totally useless because I still use a water bottle, not a bladder. I've owned a number of packs in my life, and this is my favorite, hands down.

I've done a few calculations, but to be honest all of my stuff is packed up for a hunting trip to Wyoming, so I can't pull everything out to measure it right now.

WM Versalite Bag = 753 s.i. weight 32 ounces
MSR Reactor stove w/pot and fuel = 138 s.i. weight 19 ounces
MSR Miniworks water filter = 100 s.i. weight 15 ounces
Big Agnes insulated air core pad = 177 s.i. weight 24 ounces
Grand total so far is = 1168 s.i. weight so far under 6.5 pounds

sleeping bag can be squeezed much smaller...

I don't take TOO much stuff, but I always like to have about 2-3 liters of water, so another 6 pounds. All my food is generally freezedried (say 3-4 days worth). My Big Agnes Seedhouse SL3 is about 4.5 pounds, takes up about half as much space as the sleeping bag with the poles out (strapped outside). Then just toiletries, I can't really think of the other things that I'd have in there, but not too much more. So where are we, still under/around 3000 inches, unless I'm really leaving some stuff out (AM I?)? As far as weight, maybe around 24 pounds, if I'm toting ALL of the "group stuff", like the tent and water filter...

What do ya'll think I should look at as far as packs? I can't get much lighter stuff without sacrificing my stove and tent, of which BOTH I love too much...

Part of me is leaning towards a "Badlands 2800" pack. It's a little heavier than most in it's size range, but it is built to carry out game quarters and tote a really heavy load when necessary. Do any of you have experience with these packs? (I know this isn't a hunting forum...) They are reportedly very comfortable and well built, and they seem like they would serve multiple purposes. On the hunting forums, these packs get REALLY good ratings, almost like WM bags do here. I love to hike, but hunting is my true passion. I'm not so much caught on having a camoflauge pack, just want to get the most bang for my buck. I might be better off having a "hiking" pack and a "hunting" pack.

This particular pack has a 750 inch sleeping bag compartment on bottom, twin exterior compartments of about 438 inch each, and a main compartment of 1200 inches, for a combined 2826, plus the two waist band compartments. I'm just not sure if this is big enough to hold all of my stuff when hiking, or if there is just a definite better way to go. I just don't know much about how's and why's on packs.

http://www.badlandspacks.com/2800.php

Thank ya'll again for your help.

NitroSteel

Don't overanalyze it. Get whatever your stuff fits in that is comfortable for you, and try not to overbuy (on weight or space capacity) or you end up carrying to much. That's about it. You're at least doing it right in that you have your gear before you're thinking about the pack much.

You certainly don't need anything like serious weight capacity for what you describe unless your hunting trip can include packing out quartered critters.

FWIW in the last year I've taken two newb's pack shopping and they've fallen instantly in love with the Gregory Z55. - The Z series isn't too heavy and appears to be seriouslyu comfortable (I don't own one myself tho)

If you're packing out parts of ex-magnificent forest creature - forget it, you need a frame. I have one that includes wooden parts that I take that's probably older than me. I usually just strap a daypack and stuff on it - although I may now strap my granite gear virga frameless on it instead - have a look at things like bigfoot's post in the myog section about his frame pack.

I think it is hard to make the same kind of best for the money comparison because sleeping bags don't need to fit like packs do. In the pack world, what works great for one person might be terrible for another. If you look back through the archives you really won't see too many people complaining that thier lighter weight packs were poorly made and falling apart. What you will find is alot of discussion about a fairly small group of manufacturers and different people saying those packs/that brand either fit or didn't fit. Like shoes, packs are very individual. There are very good "off the shelf" products out there. There are also a number of very good custom packs or specialty packs available. If you spend alot of time with a pack on your back, the most comfortable pack you can find would be worth whatever the cost. If you spend less time with a pack, you can probably find something in the "off the shelf" market that will be very comfortable. The 2 may be one and the same.

With that in mind, some brands that seem to come up often are Gregory, Granite Gear, ULA... oh, I don't know... there are alot of brands. But Granite Gear does seem to have alot of fans. So does ULA. In fact, owners do tend to be rabid fans, which you don't see as much with other brands. But that said, those brands don't work for everyone, so you do really have to try on as many as you can. I have a Gregory Z55. I also have a CiloGear 65L worksack (my mountain rescue pack). I have another Gregory (don't remember the model, but it is a panel loader made out of silnylon) that I used once with probably 20 lbs of stuff in it and ended up with a lump on my shoulder which took about a month to go away (somehow the muscle under the strap got irritated and seized up on me). OTOH, I have ANOTHER Gregory panel loader (2000 ci) that is on the heavier side (because the back panel is very stiff), but VERY comfortable and I easily humped 25lbs in it on one hike. So, even within brands you'll find yays and nays.

MNS

You didn't mention price, but if it's not a big deal, go to McHale Alpine Packs. They're not cheap, but you can get just exactly what you want, in a pack made to fit YOU.
Just my two cents.
roosterk

Since you asked for opinions I'll give you mine on these two questions.

McHale...and McHale.

I have a Granite Gear pack and two Ospreys. I have also used a Gregory. Those manufacturers all make nice high end packs. It all came down to fit for me. At 6'-5" with a fairly long torso I was able to get a superior fit by going with a custom pack. Dan (McHale) also has a very good attention to detail, and his packs are far superior in construction to any others I have used or examined (i.e. seen in person).

I won't lie to you though, McHale packs are expensive. But as the old saying goes "You get what you pay for".

McHale is like FF and WM in that they are a small company and make custom gear. ULA is like that, too.

Of the major companies, it seems Osprey and Gregory are the two that I see everywhere. I've had many packs from both companies (I can quit any time I want!) -- and they both make good quality packs that hold up well.

I've tried to like Granite Gear packs, I really have, but they sit on my back like a slab of wood. With an angry monkey on top.

The Gregory Z55 is a fine pack and you should get many years of use from it.

I think separate hiking packs and hunting packs would be a good idea. And I'd definitely keep the external frame pack you have for packing out game. I just can't see trying to stuff a couple of venison hind quarters (even if wrapped in plastic) into an internal frame pack. Internal frame packs are designed to have everything loaded inside. Tying heavy stuff on the outside makes them out of balance and often quite uncomfortable. This is where the external frame is better.

I didn't add up your numbers but strongly suspect that you've left some stuff out. Certainly when you're out hunting in the fall you're going to be carrying more stuff--more warm clothing, ammo (that's heavy!), etc. What about food, fuel, water?

A number of excellent brands have already been mentioned. The one I haven't seen mentioned yet is Six Moon Designs, specifically the Starlight, Traveler and Comet, with the optional backstays. The max weight on these would be 30-35 lbs. I did carry 36 lbs. in my Comet for a couple of days last summer. The pack and my back and shoulders felt fine; it was my knees and feet that strenuously objected.

Because each of us is built differently, packs are like shoes. We could all recommend shoes that work just fine for each of us, but that doesn't mean they will fit you. In other words, the one pack that will work for you is the pack that fits you and is comfortable with whatever load you choose to put into it.

I can't recommend strongly enough loading _all_ your gear--including the equivalent of a week's food and fuel and at least a day's water--into the pack and carrying it around for several hours before deciding whether or not to keep it.

McHale.

I was reviewing this thread and realized no one had posted the LuxuryLite. As has been pointed out, there may not be the same general agreement about packs as about sleeping bags, but I would certainly nominate the LL as a well-engineered pack that will keep gear dry, fit almost anyone without "custom" design, carry a load of 45 lbs (if you want) or work as a daypack and weighs about 2lbs.

It may not "look" like your standard pack, but the physics behind it is impeccable.

I had a Z55 and I thought it was great....except it just didn't quite fit right for me. I was just in between sizes. The medium was a hair too big, the small was a tad too small.

It was near perfect aside from the fact it is not adjustable and tough to dial in that perfect fit.

Even though it didn't fit quite right it really handled a 4 day trip with ~25-30 lbs of gear fantastically IMO.

I'm trying a Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone next FWIW

Great advice on going to a reputable dealer.


I've owned more packs than I"ve had trips, lol. That happens trying to order online and buying from some of the big box stores.

Aw yeeeah!

McHale is the WM++ of backpacks. I finally got one about 2 year ago. I got the Popcan model. I had it sized at ~4500 cu in. It weighs a bit over 4lbs. And it's the most comfortable and versatile pack I have ever used. Period.

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/index.htm

I think the WM of hunting backpacks is Eberlestock. Modular and expandable. Just way too heavy for someone used to a Gossamer Gear Mariposa. I may be tempted by one of the Osprey Exos 58 packs when they come out.

In the WM quality category, I'd check out Kifaru. The Late Season might work for you as could the Siwash. They are great for general backpacking but especially tough to beat if you are adding carrying meat to the to do list. I've packed an entire boned out deer in a Late Season and wouldn't hesitate to strap on an elk quarter if that's what I had to do although I'd prefer their full sized pack such as those based on the Long Hunter frame for that sort of thing. I once packed out -- only about a mile -- a whole deer sans hide, head and lower legs on a Kifaru Predator frame. It wasn't much fun but I know the packs will carry much more than my legs can. Bulletproof and excellent customer service.

kifaru.net