Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel

Posted by: BarryP

Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 08:15 AM

Ye TLBers,
I make my alcy pot stands out of hardware cloth. I donít know if itís galvanized steel or not. But some fear this is a potential for zinc fume fever.

Is this really a fear since weíre supposed to be doing our carbon monoxide cooking outside?

Thanks,
-Barry
Posted by: phat

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 08:33 AM


Yes, you will have zinc fumes coming off that thing, if it's galvanized hardware cloth. at least for the
first firing or two. Of course, it's not like you should lock yourself in an enclosed space with a whack of
burning alcohol either. now mind you, hw cloth doesn't have that much on it, so after I fired if up and
burned it all off I wouldn't worry too much as long as you have some ventilation.
Posted by: bung

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 10:32 AM

i'VE bin useing my hardwhere cloth pot stand 4 years, I dont notice any problemsssssssssssssssssss <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: Spock

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 10:40 AM

There's hardware cloth and then there's hardware cloth. Some is welded prior to galvanizing (zinc plating) and does not rely on the zinc to hold it together. The cheap stuff is "welded" together by the zinc coating. If your stove gets hot - alcohol and Esbit both get hot enough - it will burn the zinc - forming fumes of zinc oxide. (And the screen will fall apart.) Yep, this zinc oxide the same stuff that you put on your nose. Unfortunately, the fumes are toxic in the long term. That is, they cause a progressive deterioration of lung tissue. Whether this disease is reversible is an open question as far as I know.

IOW, don't use hardware cloth or any galvanized metal over a fire. You may think you can dodge the fumes until the zinc is all gone, but you are taking a real chance.

A better solution is to use either stainless steel hardware cloth or expanded aluminum gutter screening. They won't kill you slowly and pitifully with oxy tubes up your nose. Alternatively, throw the screen in a hot fire and run away until all the zinc is consumed. If the wire is welded, it will survive. If not, get better wire.
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 12:11 PM

Barry
Zinc gas toxin is deadly. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Pronto not over the long term - <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> like dead. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> No welder would do what you are doing. Use stainless steel or at a minimum take it out someplace and take a torch to it to remove the zinc, but in general - BAD IDEA to have zinc and flame together.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: StepChld

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 01:25 PM

Aren't stove pipes sometimes made out of galvanized tin?
I honestly don't know but thought that was true.
Posted by: Paddy_Crow

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 02:27 PM

Galvanized steel is also used in exhaust systems. The burner on my gas grill is galvanized.

From OSHA website:

Effects on Humans: Zinc oxide dust is primarily a nuisance dust, but exposures to high concentrations can result in respiratory system effects in humans. Volunteers inhaling 600 mg/m(3) zinc oxide dust for 10 minutes exhibited persistent rales, decreased vital capacity, coughing, upper respiratory tract irritation and substernal pain. Studies have reported that exposures to concentrations up to 430 mg/m(3) zinc oxide, resulted in chest pain [ACGIH 1991, p. 1755]. Inhalation of zinc oxide fume can result in metal fume fever. This in a self limiting condition characterized by flu-like symptoms which resolve within 24 to 48 hours [ACGIH 1991, p. 1755]. Repeated exposures to zinc oxide by skin contact have resulted in papular-pustular skin eruptions in the axilla, inner thigh, inner arm, scrotum and pubic areas [ACGIH 1991]. Epidemiologic studies of zinc refinery workers found no correlation between industrial zinc exposures and lung or other types of cancer [ACGIH 1991].
Posted by: phat

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 08:18 PM

Quote:

A better solution is to use either stainless steel hardware cloth or expanded aluminum gutter screening.


I tried aluminum gutter screening once for a test - it didn't perform so well (I melted it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: NiytOwl

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/30/08 10:30 PM

430 mg/m^3 is an extremely high concentration. That's almost half a gram in a box 3.3 feet on a side. I doubt there's even 1/10-gram in a 4 x 4 inch piece of galvanized screen. Add that to dilution in the great outdoors and you *might* get a concentration of 5 mg/m^3 directly in the exhaust plume of the stove when the screen is brand new. The only problem might be if you are using the stove inside the tent.

Of course, all this is coming from a guy who gave himself mild lead poisoning because he was using tin/lead solder in a tiny windowless room with inadequate ventilation (read: none) for 2 months. If it hadn't been for the headaches, I would still be clueless!
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/31/08 10:22 AM

Niytowl
When I studied welding we were STRONGLYwarned about zinc being toxic. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Well all welders believe that. I was really taken aback after looking up some more information on the toxicity. I was forbidden from welding my snowshoes from galvanised steel in the school welding shop. There are stories of ship welder dying - maybe urban legand? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh well, live and learn. We all used to play with mercury. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted by: phat

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/31/08 11:53 AM

Quote:
Niytowl
Oh well, live and learn. We all used to play with mercury. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


When I was little I used to hang out in chemistry labs - (My mom was a lab supervisor)
Mercury was amazingly fun to play with! and look how normal i turned out! (twitch - twitch)
Posted by: NiytOwl

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/31/08 03:06 PM

Quote:
... look how normal i turned out! (twitch - twitch)


<snicker!> Yeah...it was really fun to use it like mouthwash - it would turn gold fillings silver! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <JK!> Although I wonder how much mercury I got in my system doing the distillation of mercury experiment from my chemistry set in my little bedroom. Does anyone remember when you could buy radium paint? Not the cheesy glow-in-the-dark stuff, but the paint with radium in it? It came in a little 1/10 oz. bottle from...I think it was Edmund Scientific. They shipped it to you in the mail. I wonder how much exposure all those postal workers got? Times certainly do change!
Posted by: Eric

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 01/31/08 10:10 PM

Ah, back in the good old days when chemistry sets actually had chemicals in them.

Jim,
Also back in the old days it was not uncommon to find cadmium along with the zinc in galvanize. That stuff would kill you, the zinc will just make you sick.
Posted by: BarryP

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/01/08 07:31 AM

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and input.
-Barry
Posted by: gardenville

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/01/08 04:49 PM

Quote:
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and input.
-Barry


Barry, Why don't you use Stainless Steel hardware cloth.

I bought some from http://www.brasslite.com a couple of years ago. Contact Aaron and ask if you can buy some. What I got from him didn't cost much and then you don't have to worry about the burning galvanized stuff.
Posted by: ajherman

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/02/08 11:07 AM

i made a pot stand out of small alum. tubing, it melted too.
Posted by: jshannon

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/03/08 11:31 AM

People have been using hardware cloth for pot stands for more than a decade with no problems. Don't worry about that, IMO. Cooking inside a shelter (carbon monoxide) is way more dangerous than cooking outside using a hardwear cloth pot stand.
Posted by: BarryP

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/04/08 07:55 AM

gardenville,
Itís an honor to hear from you! We havenít heard of your travels and inventions in a while.
Thank you for the stainless steel heads up.
-Barry
Posted by: gardenville

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/04/08 05:46 PM

Quote:
gardenville,
Thank you for the stainless steel heads up.
-Barry


Hi Barry,

Thanks for your nice comment.

I look here a lot and normally see many good answers to questions that are posted. I also like the way this site is organized, all except that threads go away at the two year mark. Tell me they changed that.

I would like to run a forum like this format (with spell check) for Super Ultra Light Backpacking ideas and gear.

I know that most folks use the regular galvanized hardware cloth and I used it for several years. It just get nasty looking quick. I am not sure I was ever afraid of catching anything from it but I was very happy when Aaron at Brasslite agreed to sell some of his Stainless Steel (SS) version. I was playing with home made wood stoves and was burning the galvanized stuff up. The SS stuff seems to last forever, well, I haven't burned any of it up yet.

My travels had been almost 100% curtailed by some medical problems and then the follow-up exams have been real close together. They are now getting a bit farther apart and I might have a window open for a long hike sometime from late April to maybe the first of September this year.

I have never stopped tweaking my SUL gear list. I am working on a very light way to stay warm in my Cuben Hammock from a temperature of about 40 degrees F (early spring on the south end of the AT) up to ?? summer time. There are a lot of ways to do this but I am after the absolute lightest way I can come up with.

I had been doing some testing but then our weather here in south Texas just got warm again. Now I am waiting for some cooler weather.
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: Pot stand; Burning galvanized steel - 02/05/08 09:33 AM



That's funny !!! I did the exact same thing with an aluminum tube (heat duct) and used it for a pot stand/windscreen combination. While I had it burning I noticed that the pot was moving. I had fear of it falling so I immediately removed the pot only to find that the aluminum tubing was melting right before my eyes.... Needless to say I am now using Titanium for that purpose...Hope this helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />