MYOG White Gas Stove?

Posted by: BZH

MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/13/12 03:43 PM

I have noticed people on these forums seem to talk affectionately of two stoves: (1) SVEA 123 and (2) MYOG Alcohol Stoves. I don't have any hands on experience with either of these, but it always makes me wonder why people don't do a MYOG white gas stove. I guess white gas needs to be pressurized which increases complexity, but if I understand the Svea correctly it doesn't have a pump. It is pressurized by a pre-heat tube. Is a white gas burner like the svea too dangerous or just to complex to make yourself? Has anyone tried?
Posted by: PDA

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/13/12 08:50 PM

Look at the complexity of the tubing and burner design of liquid fuel stoves and the standard of brazing required, to say nothing of drilling the jets, adn you can see why MYOG is not really an option for LF stoves.
Posted by: Gershon

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/13/12 10:33 PM

I have a SVEA 123 and will not use anything else.

Lots of people have tried to make their own white gas stoves. Problem is, homemade ones tend to blow up. One thing the SVEA has is a pressure relief valve in the cap. A person making their own might not think of this.

Posted by: TomD

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/13/12 10:47 PM

I own three white gas stoves-a SVEA 123, a MSR XGK and an Optimus Nova. Take a look at all three and compare them with an alcohol stove made out a soda can. How many people do you know have the engineering skills to make one of mine? I would suspect that is a very small number who have not only the skills, but also access to the machine tools and materials. Making a white gas stove is like making a homemade jet engine, because that is pretty much what they are. Kids, don't try this at home (rocket scientists excepted).
Posted by: BZH

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 12:24 PM

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I guess they are just too complex to make yourself. I've been thoroughly impressed with all of the mad scientists in the MYOG community that it seemed odd no one was trying to build these.

Actually my first thought was, "I wonder what would happen if you throw white gas in an alcy stove?" I assume it would either turn into a spectacular fire ball or just barely burn (not really sure which though). With two little boys at home my own mad scientisting has really been hampered lately.
Posted by: PerryMK

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 01:29 PM

If you have your heart set on a multi-fuel stove, probably the safest (I use that word loosely; burning ignitable liquids is inherently unsafe) design is something like this. It is basically a non-pressurized wicking material. Spill almost anything ignitable on it and light. It might flash a little so maybe do this from at least arm's length (smile).

Posted by: TomD

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By BZH
Thanks for the reply's everyone. I guess they are just too complex to make yourself. I've been thoroughly impressed with all of the mad scientists in the MYOG community that it seemed odd no one was trying to build these.

Actually my first thought was, "I wonder what would happen if you throw white gas in an alcy stove?" I assume it would either turn into a spectacular fire ball or just barely burn (not really sure which though). With two little boys at home my own mad scientisting has really been hampered lately.


Doing what you suggest is extremely dangerous. Yes, you will wind up with a fireball and the chances of you getting badly burned are probably close to 100% unless you did this under controlled test conditions. Alcohol is nowhere near as volatile as white gas and has far less energy, which is why starting an alcohol stove isn't all that easy sometimes.
Posted by: BZH

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 03:51 PM

Thanks for the link Perry. I note how explicitly Paul conveys that this should only be used with alcohol. I guess based on Tom's response if you were to try throwing white gas in there you would get a nice pretty fire ball and no boiled water. It seems white gas is so energetic that you have to meter how much fuel comes out. Restricting the flow of a combusting fuel is how you make a bomb.

There was this wicked looking alcy stove that some guy in Japan made with bent tubes with wire mesh inside for wicking the alcohol. It seems to me you could use a similar concept to regulate the flow of white gas, ..... but as I mentioned (with two little ones at home) I don't experiment as much as I used to and I note how people who actually use white gas and alcohol stoves think this is a pretty awful idea.
Posted by: lori

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 05:37 PM

My first thought upon reading the subject before clicking on the thread was, "I hope he has a fire extinguisher and a real close fire station, and the phone dialed up with 9-1-1, before he lights it."

yeah, probably not a great idea.
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 05:56 PM

BZ
PM me and allow me to email photos to you.
Have you seen phats little swiss stove? There are many many variations.

Oh and TomD is right (he set his kitchen table on fire testing a stove as I recall) don't try this at home, HOWEVER if you can braze and have a torch, saws and a way to bend copper tubing and cut threads - and a nice lathe - go for it. I wish I had a torch and a lathe - I'd be making miniature white gas stoves.
Jim
Posted by: Kent W

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 06:19 PM

Amen Lori, Basically that would be compared to building a Bomb! It could very easily become one! Naptha, coleman fuel is intensly volitale!
Posted by: TomD

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/14/12 11:17 PM

Jim is right, I set an XGK on fire when the fuel tube wasn't properly sealed to the pump and the pump caught fire. It was on cutting board on a countertop and I put the fire out quickly with little damage, but a few more seconds and I could have had a full blown fire in my kitchen. So, no more testing indoors for me. Alcohol stoves, way safer.

When I was a kid, I set a coffee can about half full of gas on fire in my folk's garage-not intentionally. Put that out with a fire extinguisher.
Posted by: Gershon

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/15/12 07:52 AM

SCUD missile fuel is a very good subsitute for an ESBIT tablet. It will boil 2 cups of water almost instantaneously, melt the pot into molten metal and set the tent on fire.

Don't ask me how I know that.
Posted by: BZH

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/15/12 11:30 AM

Originally Posted By Gershon
SCUD missile fuel is a very good subsitute for an ESBIT tablet. It will boil 2 cups of water almost instantaneously, melt the pot into molten metal and set the tent on fire.

Don't ask me how I know that.


I definitely know what solid rocket fuel will do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsVzpE7ltb8

My company had several rental cars melted during that failure. Their are pictures of pools of metal in the parking lot that used to be a car. "Yes, Hertz, I'd like to rent another car. The one you previously gave me? You can come scrape it off the pavement."
Posted by: PDA

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/16/12 06:41 PM

The engineering equipment and skills are above those that most of us have. Pressure liquid fuel stoves (such as the SVEA 123) are simple, but devilish to get the proportions correct, and machined accurately. Otherwise, a piece of cake. As someone said elsewhere, if you do meddle, do any testing outdoors, in, say, the driveway, two houses down the street.
Posted by: skcreidc

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/17/12 05:03 PM

Some of you are still trying to commit myog white gas stove suicide, huh..... Well, take a lesson from the "home made" cap and ball gun crew. When I finished (I worked in a machine shop) my replica Colt Navy .36, I had to test it out to make sure the thing wouldn't explode in my face. It was pretty if I do say so myself, brass frame, nice blueing job. So, I attached it to a tree fully loaded with twice the powder load in EACH cylinder (capped with grease of course). Tied a string to trigger and pulled the hammer back and walked a fair distance away to hide behind a boulder. Then I yanked on the string to fire the thing off. You never know, the thing could have chain fired and I could be known as stumpy.

Moral is "test first" at a safe distance.
Posted by: Samoset

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/17/12 11:57 PM

Originally Posted By BZH
Thanks for the reply's everyone. I guess they are just too complex to make yourself. I've been thoroughly impressed with all of the mad scientists in the MYOG community that it seemed odd no one was trying to build these.

Actually my first thought was, "I wonder what would happen if you throw white gas in an alcy stove?" I assume it would either turn into a spectacular fire ball or just barely burn (not really sure which though). With two little boys at home my own mad scientisting has
really been hampered lately.


Out of curiously I once " in a controlled environment " filled a super cat stove with whit gas and placed a stainless steel messkit pot on it. The two cups of water build in prob 3 min. But I never used that water or the pot or stove again!
Posted by: GrumpyGord

Re: MYOG White Gas Stove? - 02/18/12 02:07 PM

Gasoline requires the correct air and fuel mix. Depending on several hard to control factors, what you can get away with one time may kill you the next time. If the vapors on the surface of a can of gasoline are not the right mix it is possible to extinguish a lighted match in a can of liquid gasoline. This is not to likely to happen but is theoretically possible. Do not try this at home.