A Thru-Hikers Stove?

Posted by: Samoset

A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/16/09 03:34 PM

So I tried my hand at building my first double walled side burning alc stove With V8 Cans the other night in an attempt to lighten my load a little and have a decent alc stove for an attempt at the first couple hundred miles on the AT(See a thru-hikers pack? Lite gear talk) I got the plans for the stove I built from www.Thru-hiker.com 0.5oz v8 stove. Upon testing the stove I was having a little trouble keeping the stove primed. Every time I placed the pot on top of the stove the flames would extinguish and I was using a rather large amount of fuel to boil 20oz of water (upwards of 3 tablespoons) Iím going to try to modify the stove design building a new one a little shorter with smaller jets and placing the jets a little lower on the sides of the can and let you know my results. ive built a few other stoves like the Jim wood cat stove witch burns rather well but throws much of its flame around the outside of my snowpeak trek 900ti. Iím also going to build a small penny stove with the jets ported inside towards the middle of the pot to put inside my esbit stove if I decide to keep taking it. Or I may just use the penny stove with a windscreen pot stand combo. I am looking for a design that would allow me to boil up to 24 oz of water with not using over 2 table spoons of alc(heet). Any suggestions would help thanks. Ill post results on the new stoves as soon as I get a chance to build and test them

Thanks & happy trails
Samoset
Posted by: phat

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/16/09 04:01 PM

Using too much fuel will make an alky stove harder to get primed. You have to get the alcohol to boil, so it's simply an
issue of thermal mass. if you have a big wad of cold alky in there it is going to take more oomph to get it going.
Posted by: Myke

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/16/09 07:23 PM

Another factor could be the choice of HEET as your fuel. The BTU/pound ratio is lowest of alcohol types listed in Fuel Comparisons at Zen Backpacking Stoves.

Using 2 TBSP (1oz) denatured (SLX), an aluminum Jim Wood cat stove on aluminum foil (to insulate from heat sinking to ground), and my Snowpeak Trek 900ti, I brought 25oz (as marked) of water to a rolling boil. Once there, it continued for another 1.5 minutes.

Hope this helps!

-Myke-
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/16/09 07:34 PM

I think that I am correct on this and if I am not please some one correct me so I can get it straight, but I think that if you compare ingredients between "heet" and denatured alcohol they will be very close to the same. I have used alky stoves many many times (hundreds) and I always use a small primer pan under it. I fill the primer pan first then sit the alky stove right down in it. Then I fill my stove and then light the primer pan "only". By the time that the primer pan burns out the stove itself is hot enough to light itself. It should be plenty hot to burn on it's own from that point...Hope that helps...sabre11004...


The first step that you take is one of those that will get you there... crazy
Posted by: Myke

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/16/09 10:22 PM

sabre11004

Quote:
I think that if you compare ingredients between "heet" and denatured alcohol they will be very close to the same.


A review of the MSDS available in Fuel Comparisons at Zen Backpacking Stoves, would indicate otherwise.

HEET (yellow bottle) is 99 percent Methanol, and Iso-HEET (red bottle) is 99 percent Isopropanol, while denatured types (in the Ethanol column) all have a percentage of Ethanol alcohol.

Hope this helps!

-Myke-
Posted by: jpanderson80

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/17/09 12:23 PM

Samoset,
Try Zenstoves.net for ideas, if you haven't already. I use a Snow Peak 700, so I understand the problems that you are having. The last stove I tried was the V8 penny, with three jets spaced out around the edges (on the inside of the ridge pointed towards the center of the pot) and two jets in the center for filling. The jets were 1/16" in size. I found that with a windscreen/stand combo it worked well. However, I after using it in the field, I think I would better appreciate a cat stove type without a need to pull stakes out of my bag in order to cook. Generally I always cook at camp, but on my last trip I stopped to eat then kept walking after dinner. It would have been nicer to go without the digging for stakes. I have a tomato paste can that should be small enough to not send too many flames up the sides. We'll see how it goes. I'm guessing that the number of holes will be a major factor here.
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/17/09 01:23 PM

Thanks for correcting me on that. I knew that they were both alcohol but I did not know that one was methanol and one was ethanol...Thanks again...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!!! goodjob
Posted by: Spock

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/17/09 05:18 PM

It sounds like you want to use your double walled stove as the pot support as well as the stove. That's a good idea since it saves the weight and fiddle factor of a separate pot support. Look at Fuzzy's Li'l Stove on the Zen site. It is also the pot support and always works - even in cold weather. Made with a V8 can, it will weigh 0.25 oz. It is an efficient fuel user as well unless the pot is very narrow. And it takes about 5 minutes to make. I used one on two thru-hikes - alternating with Esbit just out of cussedness on the second hike.
Posted by: TurkeyBacon

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/17/09 06:39 PM

You could always try a priming cup. I recently tried a similar stove and noticed how long it takes to prime.
You hinted at being skimpy on fuel usage. Its not exactly what happens on the AT. You fill up your bottle at every town stop regardless of how much it weighs. I never ran out of alcohol and never cared about carrying a few extra ounces of weight. At least that was the way it was in 02...
Scott
Posted by: Folkalist

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/17/09 07:52 PM

How do you make alky into a wad? Wouldn't it be more like a dollop? or a glop? or a puddle? smile

Oh, dear me, the cold medicine is starting to take effect . . . sick
Posted by: Heber

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/17/09 08:22 PM

What you are describing is a well-known shortcoming of stoves that are also pot stands. The stoves heats during priming and gets the alcohol boiling but then you put a large, cold object on top (the pot) and it sucks the heat out of the stove and stops the alcohol from boiling.

Not a problem in milder weather or with warmer water.

A stove that has a separate potstand is better in cold weather.
Posted by: Spock

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/20/09 03:18 PM

I've used the Fuzzy Li'l stove in single digit temperatures. It usually takes a few extra seconds of priming time (no separate primer) and an actual flame (rather than a spark) to get going, but when it does start generating, putting the pot on will not put it out.

If you use other kinds of pot support stoves, a wrap of Kevlar around the stove makes a good priming wick. Just squirt on a few drops of alky and light it off. Before it burns out, light the stove if it has not lit already. In moderate cold, the stove will usually light from the primer.
Posted by: GDeadphans

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/20/09 08:26 PM

I read on the Zen website that if the alcohol is going out when you put cookware on top, its cause the stove was not hot enough.
Posted by: Samoset

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/23/09 12:41 AM

Ive been using my jimwood catstove for a year or so. With a wider pot than my trek900ti and it works well with that pot. ive tried using it plenty of times with my trek900ti but always seems that the stove does a better job heating the wind screen than the pot and alot of the time not boiling the 25oz.
Posted by: Samoset

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 02/23/09 01:16 AM

Well after a week of building and testing and modificatios and more testing. Ive setteld on the 1/2 penny stove made from 1 5.5oz v8 can. With a double u potstand and oven liner windscreen. Flipd upsidedown i can burn esbit on what was onse the top of the can . Im going to do some more tests to get the best pot stand height for both alc and esbit. I will post some specs/boil times tomarrow after i have had more time to fiddlewith and test this setup. Thanks for all the advice.
Posted by: Samoset

The 1/2 penny - 02/26/09 04:03 PM

Ok so I have concluded that the superior ease of building this stove (Specs) http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/halfpenny.html I can put one together with a single redbull can, penny, leatherman, and a thumbtack in about 8 min. As well as its efficiency with a narrower pot make a very appealing to me. I found with a pot stand at 2 1/2 inches this stove can consistently bring 25oz to a rolling boil with one full tank (just over one ounce) simply over fill stove to prime, and when flipped I can boil 20oz with one esbit tab (Note: since the bottom of the stove is infact the top of the can it helps to have the tab removed and to slightly indent the center of the top with your thumb to keep the hot esbit centered). I have not taken any temps of anything but I did these tests with water from my lake and outside sitting by the lake so very real world conditions slight wind maybe 40f outside not positive though. Iím going to make a better pot stand I made a double u stand out of 2 aluminum drip pin stakes and bound them with a piece of tin. This is very stable but I think id like a hard wire cloth stand to slide twigs threw when cooking with esbit all in all compared to my folding steel esbit stove this thing weighs practically nothing. I hope this helps any one interested in burning esbit and alc with a small pot.

Thanks Again
Samoset
Posted by: MountainHiker

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 03/28/09 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By sabre11004
I think that I am correct on this and if I am not please some one correct me so I can get it straight, but I think that if you compare ingredients between "heet" and denatured alcohol they will be very close to the same. I have used alky stoves many many times (hundreds) and I always use a small primer pan under it. I fill the primer pan first then sit the alky stove right down in it. Then I fill my stove and then light the primer pan "only". By the time that the primer pan burns out the stove itself is hot enough to light itself. It should be plenty hot to burn on it's own from that point


And the good thing about the primer pan is you can start boiling the water as soon as you light the primer. That way, the primer fuel is also used to heat the water.
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 03/30/09 04:02 PM

I find that a primer pan is almost a necessity with an alky stove and it is also a major convenience rather than a major hassle. If it is chilly outside, I sure do not want to be messing with trying to get a stove to light. All you have to do is fill the primer pan with a little alcohol, then fill the stove. Light them both at the same time and you're off to the races , no problem at all, and they get really hot too which is exactly what I want from my stove. I have a couple that will boil two (2) quarts of water in around three (3) minutes...sabre11004... wink wink wink

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!! wink
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: The 1/2 penny - 03/30/09 04:05 PM



I have recently made a pot stand that works like a charm and couldn't weigh more than an ounce, if any one is interested...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!! crazy crazy
Posted by: MountainHiker

Re: The 1/2 penny - 03/30/09 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By sabre11004


I have recently made a pot stand that works like a charm and couldn't weigh more than an ounce, if any one is interested...sabre11004...


I'm interested! ... any pics?
Posted by: froldt

Re: The 1/2 penny - 03/31/09 08:38 AM

Originally Posted By MountainHiker
I'm interested! ... any pics?


I'm interested as well! ('cause, after all, my to-make list isn't nearly long enough!) laugh
Posted by: jpanderson80

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 03/31/09 11:35 AM

Sabre,
I'm quite shocked at this...
2 quarts in around 3 minutes is blazing fast. It's faster than any stove that I've ever heard of. That's a half gallon of water! Are you sure about your measurements here? If so, please post pictures and details regarding your burns.

These claims are hard to believe.
Posted by: thecook

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 03/31/09 06:17 PM

I'm interested too! Pics or plans (drawing?)
Posted by: BarryP

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 04/02/09 04:47 PM

ďI find that a primer pan is almost a necessity with an alky stoveĒ

I shy away from stoves that need priming pans. Thatís just another item to keep track of. And itís too easy to overdue the priming fuel; waste.

I like it simple. Fill the center with any amount you need. Touch the match to it and wala. Itís lit. Jets should go in about 30 seconds. I use the stove to these exact dimensions from Brawney: http://www.trailquest.net/BRcookset.html I donít use anything else in the pictures; i.e., I made my own stand and windscreen. And this stove lights easy at 0F.

ďI have a couple that will boil two (2) quarts of water in around three (3) minutesĒ

This should have been posted on 4/1/09 smile

-Barry
Posted by: 300winmag

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove?(ESBIT) - 04/20/09 03:06 PM

You can use ESBIT chunks for priming... OR just use ESBIT/FireLite tabs for the main fuel, since it's hotter than even "Red Bottle" HEET, the hottest alky fuel. I always cook with TWO tabs at a time. Usually have 1/4 left over for the next hot meal.

Just had to make that plug for solid fuel. Maybe someday the JPL guys at NASA will release a de-tuned form of solid rocket fuel for us to use in place of ESBIT... Hee, hee ("Hey Y'all, got my new JPL fuel stove. I'm tryin' double fuel tabs. Watch this..." KA-BOOM!)

Eric

Posted by: phat

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 04/20/09 06:49 PM


My penny stove boils 2 quarts of water in about a minute, using 1/4 oz of fuel..

Simple instructions.

1) Take Pyrex measuring cup, measure 2 quarts of water.
2) microwave on high for 8 minutes
3) remove penny stove, set up stand indoors, out of the wind.
4) take AGG 2 quart pot from winter gear.
5) measure 1/4 oz of methyl hydrate.
6) BEEP the microwave beeped, remove pyrex cup from microwave, be careful not to burn yourself.
7) pour into agg 3 cup pot.
8) pour alcohol into penny stove and light.
9) put AGG pot on top of lit stove and cover. start watch
for scientific "boil test"
10) steam comes out rapidly!
11) Post to internet.. Ohai - I haz new stovez.


Posted by: Franco

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 04/20/09 09:59 PM

Jpanderson 80
My way of getting those figures (and better) is to use my 95% dehydrated water, a patent pending product that could revolutionise the backpacking scene.
I will never release it into the market because it would obviously cause a flood of new hikers, and I am not too keen on that.
Franco
Sorry I could not insert the Wink smily in my post because Sabre has already taken up the maximum allowed per thread (MSAPT)
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 04/21/09 06:47 PM

Yes, you are correct. I should have written "4 cups" of water, one (1) quart in three minutes. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. Thanks for the heads up and slapping me in the head and waking me up !!! Thanks again...sabre11004... goodjob goodjob
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: The 1/2 penny - 04/21/09 07:13 PM

I can't seem to manage getting pics on here and it would prove a little difficult to explain...sabre11004...

P.S. but it really does work great. Doesn't look like much but does work great.. goodjob
Posted by: Franco

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 04/21/09 09:51 PM

And how much fuel does it take to boil those 4 cups in three minutes ?
Franco
Posted by: cpetterson

Re: A Thru-Hikers Stove? - 05/12/09 09:26 AM

You could also try to make a pressurized stove. I have found the efficiency is better with a pressure stove. http://zenstoves.net/BasicPressureBurner.htm
I had that same problem with the double wall.

Or using a pot stand. http://zenstoves.net/PotStands.htm

Or build a side burner stove. http://zenstoves.net/BasicSideBurner.htm

Because remember the smaller the distance between the jets and the pot; the less hot it will burn.

zenstoves.com is probably the best place on the net to learn about any sort of stove you may want to know about.