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#152804 - 07/18/11 03:40 PM Marmots
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Pesky marmots do such things as eat tires, chew up radiator hoses in your car at the trailhead, and destroy packs, trekking pole handles and anything you own with salt on it. They are quite disguisting as they eat dirt where you pee just to taste the salt.

They become aggressive. Last trip I finally started throwing rocks at them. They just looked clueless. My theory is that they are so dumb that they cannot connect the rock that hits them with the being who throws the rock. Yet if I get up and run after or kick them, they "get it" and scurry off, but only for a while.

Any body else throw rocks at marmots to no avail? What is your experience with marmots. Some think they are cute and fuzzy, but they are rodents and can carry diseases and are very destructive.

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#152809 - 07/18/11 04:23 PM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
OldScout Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 501
Loc: Puget Sound, Washington
Don't know what your problem is. They serve ice tea and lemonaide to all of the hikers in my area. In fact, on my last trip, a bunch rush up to us in camp all excited and chatting. We finally figured out that Little Timmy was stuck in the old abandoned well.

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#152810 - 07/18/11 04:36 PM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
They're called "mice" or "raccoons" in the eastern U.S. - except ours also like sweets, and chew through packs. Usually clueless about rocks and sticks, too; I think it's a short-term memory thing. The mice keep me out of shelters (except as a last resort), and the raccoons remind me to hang my food. At least they usually leave the cars alone.

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#152822 - 07/18/11 08:00 PM Re: Marmots [Re: Glenn]
AaronMB Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 12
We've plenty of mice and raccoons in California, which love to chew packs, tents, and climb down bag hangs, but those Marmots--especially in particular areas--can be brutal to cars parked at trail heads. In one area (Mineral King) for example, it is not uncommon for folks to wrap their cars in chicken wire to prevent the marmots from climbing up into the engine area and chewing hoses, cables, etc. Raising the hood is said to help, too, as the marmots prefer dark places.

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#152828 - 07/19/11 12:47 AM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
You wont believe this but many years ago here in Kamloops they actually postponed building a large shopping mall because it would disrupt several marmots who lived right where the contractors had to dig. Work was hard to find in those days and so there must have been some annoyed workers. They eventually relocated the marmots to a new home. Marmots are common around here but I have never heard of them causing any trouble in the way of chewing stuff. They are good food for our many eagles and coyotes.

Howie

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#152840 - 07/19/11 01:44 PM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Whenever I see a marmot I consider myself to be a guest in his neighborhood. It is up to me to adapt to him.

They do get quite aggressive in the Mt. Whitney area, probably because they are used to the constant parade of humans on the main trail all summer long. My buddy lost a Camelbak hose to them once.
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If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#152882 - 07/19/11 09:28 PM Re: Marmots [Re: Trailrunner]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Up at Tuolomne Meadows in the Yosemite High country, the marmots would bite radiator hoses and drink the poisonous - don't quote me - Ethelyn glycol? antifreese. frown Someone suggested just leaving a bowl of it for them, eek but we decided the National Park would frown on that. mad

Here its marmot and horse country and the two do not mix. People here trap, shoot and poison marmots and set dackshounds upon them.

I have sprayed a skunk with water from my gardem hose and he looked up at the sky and scurried for cover without even wondering if I was spraying him.

I've thrown a hand sized rock at a bear whose head was right in the crotch of tree. As the highly accurate rock came in towards him, he ignored it, after all, who throws rocks at bears, but as it glanced off the tree and brushed his face he jumped like it was the first time he realised he was under attack. I've also scared off bears by throwing a rock down hard on rocky ground and making the dreaded "landlside sound"
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#152885 - 07/19/11 11:19 PM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I've never had to deal with critters getting into my stuff, and never had one mess with my car at the trailhead either. I did watch hundreds of chipmunks devour an entire families food at a campsite in the Sequoia NF once. That's really a pretty good story, but I think I've told it here already so I'll let it pass this time.

We have marmots here in the Ozarks, but we call them "Groundhogs". They're generally very shy around people, it's not uncommon to see them crossing a road though. I got chased by one in Illinois once after poking a stick in its burrow, but it let me get a safe distance away and then quit. It's almost hard to believe they'd be chewing up car parts. There must not be much else around for them to eat if they get to that point. I would think that if one could trap a few around those trailheads it wouldn't take long to end the problem. Does the FS have a problem with that out there?

The more I hear these kind of things the more I believe that the difference between how bears and other critters, as related to how they interact with humans out West and here in the Ozarks, must be a result of how humans interact with them differently in these areas. I know for sure that if a groundhog was chewing up cars here at a trailhead it wouldn't be long before someone put a stop to it, and they wouldn't consult the FS either, it would just be stopped.

I met a guy who deep fried one at a Bluegrass festival in Kentucky and it went so fast it was gone before word got around about it. That probably had a lot to do with the novelty of the dish and the moonshine that night, but it's true wink

Jim, on a backpacking forum dedicated to Arkansas I recently offered the advice that hikers start getting more aggressive with a black bear that's been seen around a popular campsite along a trail in the Ouachitas. I told them they'd better start chasing it off and that I'd be yelling and tossing rocks at any black bear that hung around me too long. No one followed up on that. It felt like they all wanted to see the bear up close and refrained from supporting that advice. That's too bad because the bear will probably be shot after getting too aggressive with a hiker there. But that's not the Ozarks. It's different even there, and that's not that far away, or different (geographically speaking) than here. It's a cultural thing. Ozarkers will hunt and kill a bear, and they'll eat one too.

W_D, I'm sure if you beaned a marmot upside its head with a nice sized rock it'd be a lot more reluctant to hang around much longer. Crack its noggin with two or three and it'll find a new place to look for food. Deep fry one and I know it won't bother you anymore.

Maybe all you need out there is some Bluegrassers getting together with a jug of shine laugh
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"You want to go where?"



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#152888 - 07/20/11 12:10 AM Re: Marmots [Re: billstephenson]
Vincent Mattiola Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 9
In their defense I do basic neuroscience research with rats and mice....and they actually do have quite remarkable memories, at least when it comes to spatial recognition.

Anybody ever have trouble with damn opossum before? Shine a light on them to scare em' and they freeze. Turn the light off and it's like nothing ever happened....sort of amusing actually.

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#152902 - 07/20/11 12:32 PM Re: Marmots [Re: Vincent Mattiola]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Possums are in a class all by themselves. They're not very destructive, but they're not at all shy either.

If you harass them they'll first hiss at you, but if you persist they will play "Possum". If you harass them enough they will usually relocate, but in their own time.

We have one that started coming on our back porch each night to eat cat food my wife put out. They have no real fear of people, cats, or even our dogs. Times have changed here when it comes to possums though. I have an old cookbook that has a recipe for "Gourmet Ozark Roasted Possum", but only the old timers here have ever tasted one wink

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#152909 - 07/20/11 02:50 PM Re: Marmots [Re: billstephenson]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Two years ago some kind of rodent, presumably a mouse, got into my car while it was parked two nights at a trailhead. It chewed up a pocket pack of Kleenex, leaving shreds all over, and ate at least half the apple I had left in the car to munch on when I got back from the trip.

I never figured out how it got into my completely closed up car, and the garage where the car is serviced couldn't figure out how, either. I do know that another person reported the same thing happening at the same trailhead the week before. Since that time I've carried a small ice chest to store my "coming out of the wilderness" snacks!
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#152923 - 07/20/11 05:55 PM Re: Marmots [Re: OregonMouse]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
The marmots of the Sierra are specifically yellow bellied marmots and live specifically at higher altitudes in alpine terrain. Groundhogs are also called "marmots" and are of the same family, but different species and live in lower wooded areas.

The Sierra marmots aparenty have trouble getting salt. There destructive behavoir is a result of trying to get salt - pee on the ground and they will dig it up, salt on pack straps and trekking pole straps are sought after, as are car tires (people on the coast have salts on their cars simply from the sea air). I do not think their behavior is simply a result of interaction with humans. There are lots of marmots for the ecosystem and probably too many- so they ar forced to aggressively go after human food.

I have thrown rocks at marmots. They seem to not have a clue about it. It appears they do not connect my throwing a rock with the rock that hits them. They do not get the idea of a flying projectile. But if you run towards them or kick them, they scurry off, but only for a while. They carry diseases, so I would not want to handle one.


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#152939 - 07/21/11 11:49 AM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
dkramalc Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
We've never encountered any marmots quite as aggressive as yours. But the most persistent marmot we've encountered was just below Lamarck Col - we both woke in the night to sounds of chewing, to find that he was chewing on my boyfriend's boots outside the tent. After shooing, he kept coming back till we finally wised up and pulled the boots inside. This is probably the same marmot that was digging around in the spot where I peed after dinner.

Last summer in Desolation a pair of marmots came running from about 100 yards off about 5 minutes after my guy and his nephew peed on a rock. We initially thought they were coming after the packs we'd left sitting, but they made a beeline for the rock.
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dk

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#152940 - 07/21/11 12:03 PM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
This problem seems, at least on the surface, simple to solve.

The first option I'd have to try would be placing a salt block in the vicinity of the trailhead. When I returned I'd take the salt block home with me.

Here, we have a trapping season for "Fur Bearers" of almost every kind, and a season for most every other critter there is, so if that didn't work then I'd move on to trapping them. Once captured they could be either relocated or disposed of.

If that didn't work then I'd move on to bringing a rifle and thin them out.

I suspect all of those options would be legal here (firearms and trapping are seasonal), so you wouldn't even have to ask for permission, but I don't know about CA. If there are restrictions on those options that made them illegal then I'd call and urge the FS and SP agencies to begin a cooperative program with the public to deal with these kinds of issues. This approach sidesteps the "We have neither the manpower or funds" excuses before they get a chance to use them.

I'm pretty sure that even the Sierra Club would endorse the methods I've offered above. At least in my dealings with them on issues here I found them to be very reasonable when it comes to management. My point is, you could probably drum up support pretty quickly to help pressure unresponsive government agencies and employees into action, especially when all you're asking for is the ability to deal with the situation yourself in a reasonable and responsible manner.



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"You want to go where?"



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#152945 - 07/21/11 12:26 PM Re: Marmots [Re: billstephenson]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
My dog keeps them away. I've noticed I see far fewer since I have been bring her along, but I hear a lot more alarm calls. Apparently being hit by rocks doesn't "ring a bell" with them, but something that looks like a coyote or fox does.

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#152993 - 07/23/11 03:48 AM Re: Marmots [Re: wandering_daisy]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Any body else throw rocks at marmots to no avail?



pix of Mt. Evans, CO, marmots

wd:

We did a 3-day bp on the Gunsight Pass trail in Glacier Nat'l Park a few years ago and came upon that gorgeous view of Lake Ellen Wilson and stopped for lunch. The biggest marmot I'd ever seen came over and started licking the sweaty straps on my pack and then tried hauling it off. I picked up a decent-sized rock and threw it to scare it but to my surprise ended up beaning it right between the eyes. It crawled a short distance away and started a staring contest with me, giving me this look of "How could you possibly do that to something that is this fat and furry and cute?" It really had a look on its face like it was emotionally hurt. It was most unnerving and I felt really bad. blush



On that trip one night my wife heard a sandpaper sound by her ear and unzipped the tent to see a mountain goat tongue-ing the straps of our packs. She literally had to slap it on the butt to get it to go away, and we hauled the packs into our tent.

Which makes me ask the obvious question: Do bears ever go looking for salt?

confused
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- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#152996 - 07/23/11 12:19 PM Re: Marmots [Re: kevonionia]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Oooooooooo. Mt. Evans. Note to self; need to put "need to go to" list on the computer...the paper version is getting too long hanging out on this site grin.

What I would like to know is are marmots edible? Guinea pigs are considered a delicacy in Peru...

Being omnivores, I don't think bears have the same penchant for salt herbivores have.

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#152997 - 07/23/11 01:16 PM Re: Marmots [Re: skcreidc]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
What I would like to know is are marmots edible?


They are in Kentucky laugh
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"You want to go where?"



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#153000 - 07/23/11 02:47 PM Re: Marmots [Re: billstephenson]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Quote:
marmots do such things as eat tires, chew up radiator hoses in your car at the trailhead


The good thing is that marmots don't fly, as that vandal (the kea) does at the trailheads on the South Island of New Zeland.
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- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#153004 - 07/23/11 03:00 PM Re: Marmots [Re: billstephenson]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Bill, so are you saying that Kentucky marmots taste better than the Sierra Nevada ones? cool


Edited by skcreidc (07/23/11 03:01 PM)

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#153056 - 07/24/11 07:46 PM Re: Marmots [Re: skcreidc]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By skcreidc
Bill, so are you saying that Kentucky marmots taste better than the Sierra Nevada ones? cool


I'm not sure, but I do know that if you deep fry one and serve it up at a Bluegrass Festival in some parts of Kentucky it won't last long laugh
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"You want to go where?"



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#153090 - 07/25/11 06:57 PM Re: Marmots [Re: skcreidc]
dkramalc Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
According to my nephew who traveled in Mongolia, marmots are considered a delicacy there...but as he was invited to join in on many a dinner of marmot stew, he had it a lot and said that it was most difficult to choke down whilst maintaining an air of grateful appreciation (and he is not someone who is fussy about unusual foods).
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#153091 - 07/25/11 07:49 PM Re: Marmots [Re: dkramalc]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I've noticed when traveling that when the term delicacy is used, often as not, it is an "acquired taste". Although the bitter melon and I hit it off right at the start...still one of my favorites and high in antioxidants grin. Sea cucumber ... not so much. They had to have been desperate to start eating those things.

Bill, everything tastes good DEEP fried! Just not so sure about backpacking with all that the oil and the pot.

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#153092 - 07/25/11 09:10 PM Re: Marmots [Re: skcreidc]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I've read but wouldn't know, that you can cut a piece of fresh moose hide (say you just shot one) smile and line a hole in the ground with the hide, hair side out, fill it with water, and what ever ya got - put in hot rocks, cover and wait and ya got moose soup, and I guess you need a cup or spoon or straw or something to get it out of the hole

well - why not marmot skin soup and line the hole with an entire marmot - add water, galic salt and hot rocks. No need for deep frying, but frankly boiled marmot might be a bit tough - cut it into tiny pieces and put it in your spaghetti sauce.
Jim smirk
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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