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#147862 - 03/16/11 02:35 AM New to the forum/ Question
lakeozarkman Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 8
Hello from lake of the ozarks mo cool .....I have been camping/hiking/backpacking for years now and i get the privlage to start taking and teaching my 13 year old cousin about hiking and camping ect. so here is my question how do you guise think i should handle this i have taken him camping but never hiking/backpacking so where do i start? what do you all think i want him to know how to survive in emergencies but i sont want it to seam corny so how do i handle teaching him?
Thank you!

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#147863 - 03/16/11 07:29 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I'm highly opinionated on this, so bear that bias in mind.

First, forget about teaching survival, and for sure don't watch Bear Grylls and that other guy's shows on TV. The chances of you getting into a situation where all you have is your shirttail and one boot are so remote as to be safely ignored in recreational situations.

Don't approach it as teaching him how to survive in a bad situation. Instead, simply approach it as teaching him to camp comfortably, hike for enjoyment, and become more aware of his surroundings (i.e., stop and smell the roses - and if you know the names of the varieties, teach him those, too.) If you think about it, the skills you use when "regular" camping are also the skills you'll need in tight situations: the ability to read a map (from which comes the knowledge that streams can be followed downhill to a road), build a fire, make water safe to drink, and stay warm and dry. Backpackers carry the items they need to do that with them anyhow, so when you teach basic backpacking skills, you're also giving him a lot of tools to use in emergencies - just remember to teach him not to get separated from his pack. (I still never move more than about 10 feet away from mine; if I go on a side trail to see something, the pack goes with me.) Teach him how to use good judgment, and how not to panic, and he'll have what he needs for most emergencies (such as misplacing the trail for a day or so); if you're worried about civil emergencies, back home, teach him to leave his pack packed and the sleeping bag unstuffed on top of it. When the flood or forest fire creates an emergency, he can grab his pack and bag and be all set.

I'd suggest you start with car camping, but using only the gear you'll be carrying on backpack trips. It's an easy way to familiarize him with techniques and gear. You can teach him how to pack a pack, then go dayhike with packs for a few miles, adjusting the fit as you go. After a couple trips, when he's comfortable with that, go overnight (but not too far in - a couple of miles from the car, maybe, in case you need to get him out for whatever reason.) If that works, start adding nights, miles, and difficult terrain. Your real goal for the first couple of trips should be to get him "hooked" on backpacking. Choose areas that are fairly easy walking, have something interesting to see (caves, wild ponies, good views, or whatever), and don't push him beyond his limits. (If he's a typical 13 year old, that won't be an issue - he may well walk you into the ground.) If you both enjoy fishing, hike in to a good fishing spot, and leave some time to wet a line.

As far as cooking, keep that simple, at least at first. Freeze-dried food, Lipton/Knorr side dishes (add chicken from a pouch or can), or Mac-n-cheese usually works well and is simple to prepare. Take what he likes to eat (which may mean PopTarts for breakfast), and teach him about trail nutrition as you go.

Get him involved in planning the trip, from the start. He won't be able to do it all, but it will help him get familiar with maps, menu planning, and other things he'll need to know.

I taught a son, daughter, two nieces, a nephew, and my current hiking buddy following the above guidelines; they all started when they were 10 or 12 years old, and still go out occasionally. My granddaughters are just a few years away from being old enough, so I'm starting to plan that, too.

I hope this didn't come off as too preachy - I tended to hit the highlights, since there was a lot of ground to cover. Any of the above points can be greatly expanded on, and I'm hoping that all the others on these forums, who have as much or more experience teaching the sport than I do, will fill in with rich detail.

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#147868 - 03/16/11 10:02 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: Glenn]
Paulo Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 158
Loc: Normally Pacific Northwest
If you are looking for DVDs, try ray mears. He is actually quite informative and knows his stuff. No dangerous risks and no mistakes.

I would break him in on day hikes from a camp site.
_________________________
Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears

http://theoutdooradventure.net

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#147869 - 03/16/11 10:13 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: Glenn]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I dunno, Glenn, your approach to survival skills is just way too sensible, and correct. I hang out a lot on a a survial forum (Equipped to Survive)and someone proposed a situation where there was no running water, electricity, natural gas, blocked roads, etc. and my reply was - "It sounds like a typical wilderness trip. I would just backpack in my own backyard."

Backpacking does incorporate a lot of essential "survival" tools. I would emphasize fire making as a really critical skill, especially in adverse conditions. Short of being out of water in a desert, fire is the solutions to most survival situations, which often involve stormy, cold weather. If you have nothing but a fire, you will probably pull through.

I would think it really critical to involve him in the selections of destinations. Have fun!

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#147872 - 03/16/11 12:11 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: oldranger]
lakeozarkman Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 8
I agree well put thank you very much and good point too. thanks

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#147873 - 03/16/11 12:56 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
I take my 7 year old backpacking with me sometimes, and have taken the whole family (wife + 4 kids ages 1-7) on a two night trip to a wilderness area.

Great advice from everyone above. As mentioned, Ray Mears is excellent for the more primitive bushcraft skills often not needed when backpacking.

When I was 12, I became like a sponge for any wilderness survival and backpacking related knowledge. I was also willing to gain any experience I could, the more challenging the better. Each person learns differently and has varying interest levels. Determine what your cousin's interest level is, what his goals for going backpacking are, and what his preferred learning style is.

One good approach is to find out what some of his goals and fears are. Find out what aspects of backpacking interest him most. Don't present the emergency stuff as if he were a child. Present it as if you were teaching a friend about backpacking. Teenagers want to know why.

For example:

Not: "Now if you get lost, just sit down and blow this whistle three times, and I'll come and find you."

Better: "I know that if I'm lost, the best thing to do is to stay in one place and signal for help by blowing the whistle three times every few minutes. I always let someone back home know where I am and when to expect me back, so if I'm not back by then, someone will hike the same trail and look for me. The whistle is louder than my voice, so they'll hear it even from far away."

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#147876 - 03/16/11 01:10 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Ha! A fellow Ozarker! Our numbers are growing here, soon we'll be counted as a minority instead of grouped with "Other" laugh

Glenn offers some great advice so I'll take a slightly different bend on this...

First off, we've got some of the best places to camp and backpack anywhere, so we're pretty lucky. I say the first thing to do is take him out and get him a pack, or fit him up with one of yours if you have a spare.

Then locate a good spot. For your purposes a good spot would be someplace close to home that you can hike about two miles to get to, has some interesting scenery or unique features you can explore, and a nice place to set up camp.

Head out when the weather is good. If you have to ditch your plans and wait a week, do it. You don't want to be stuck out in a hard rain or thunderstorm on your first trip, you want it to be an adventure, and lots of fun, not miserable.

Ask him if he wants to bring a friend. Odds are he will. If he does, let them run loose a bit and explore by themselves. He will have a lot more fun with a buddy his age, and knowing your there will give them both confidence to feel at ease and enjoy the trip more. Plus they'll both be bragging to all their buddies about their adventures when they get back and this will really help make him want to go again.

Don't worry about "Bonding". He may be off with his friend acting like a kid and being goofy, but he'll remember forever that you took him there and that's where the real bond will start.

Work on basic skills once you get there. Let them set up the tent while you're getting water, make them help gather sticks for starting a small campfire (others here are in areas where that's not a good idea, but I'm assuming you'll be in the Ozarks), and then cook their own food over it. Hot Dogs work great for this because you can cook them on a stick, and they'll stay fresh for several days in a pack in cool weather.

Once you set up camp go do some exploring. I took my kids out and when it was time to go back I'd ask them to lead the way. The first time I did this they were pretty much clueless. This offered a perfect opportunity to introduce lessons in finding your way. If they know the way back, let them lead you there. If they get off track, tell them and point out what they're missing.

Use opportunities as they present themselves to offer lessons. For example, when you gather sticks, explain that snakes, like copperheads, like to hang out in thick brush, under fallen trees, and under and in crevices of rocks and ledges. Show them how to make a small, safe fire and how to put it out completely. When you're by the water explain that water moccasins like to hang out on rocks and roots of trees by the water's edge during the day and swim along the shoreline looking for food at night. Explain that poking sticks into holes (burrows) might incite an angry groundhog or other critter to come out after them. Around here, teach them to identify poison ivy (leaves of three, let it be). Also point out the hairy vines that grow up tree trunks. They may not have leaves, but they have the oils that give you the rash.

After a handful of trips like these, probably when he's about 14, he'll be ready to do longer trips and brave a little weather. Help him build up his own gear with Christmas and Birthday presents and when he's 15-16 take him on a colder weather trip. Plan a trip a few days before the full moon and do a night hike on a moonlit night. Plan another on a new moon and camp where it's far from city lights and do some star gazing. Point out constellations, satellites, and look for shooting stars.

Another great thing you can do here is take him on an overnight float trip. My kids loved those at his age and they still do more canoe trips than hiking now. But they're not much different when it gets down to it and I love to float too when the forest gets to thick in the warm months.

I'd offer some tips on where to go but I haven't spent much time in your neck of the woods, if you ever want to come down near Branson or the Buffalo River I can point you to some nice spots.


_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#147877 - 03/16/11 01:51 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
OldScout Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 501
Loc: Puget Sound, Washington
Try to not teach him everything the first couple of trips. It should be fun for him, not feeling like there will be a quiz at the end of the trip. Also, in your trip planning, hike to a lake or stream. Kids LOVE playing in the water (so do I) and gives a good sense of destination and accomplishment.

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#147880 - 03/16/11 02:42 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: billstephenson]
lakeozarkman Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By billstephenson
Ha! A fellow Ozarker! Our numbers are growing here, soon we'll be counted as a minority instead of grouped with "Other" laugh

Glenn offers some great advice so I'll take a slightly different bend on this...

First off, we've got some of the best places to camp and backpack anywhere, so we're pretty lucky. I say the first thing to do is take him out and get him a pack, or fit him up with one of yours if you have a spare.

Then locate a good spot. For your purposes a good spot would be someplace close to home that you can hike about two miles to get to, has some interesting scenery or unique features you can explore, and a nice place to set up camp.

Head out when the weather is good. If you have to ditch your plans and wait a week, do it. You don't want to be stuck out in a hard rain or thunderstorm on your first trip, you want it to be an adventure, and lots of fun, not miserable.

Ask him if he wants to bring a friend. Odds are he will. If he does, let them run loose a bit and explore by themselves. He will have a lot more fun with a buddy his age, and knowing your there will give them both confidence to feel at ease and enjoy the trip more. Plus they'll both be bragging to all their buddies about their adventures when they get back and this will really help make him want to go again.

Don't worry about "Bonding". He may be off with his friend acting like a kid and being goofy, but he'll remember forever that you took him there and that's where the real bond will start.

Work on basic skills once you get there. Let them set up the tent while you're getting water, make them help gather sticks for starting a small campfire (others here are in areas where that's not a good idea, but I'm assuming you'll be in the Ozarks), and then cook their own food over it. Hot Dogs work great for this because you can cook them on a stick, and they'll stay fresh for several days in a pack in cool weather.

Once you set up camp go do some exploring. I took my kids out and when it was time to go back I'd ask them to lead the way. The first time I did this they were pretty much clueless. This offered a perfect opportunity to introduce lessons in finding your way. If they know the way back, let them lead you there. If they get off track, tell them and point out what they're missing.

Use opportunities as they present themselves to offer lessons. For example, when you gather sticks, explain that snakes, like copperheads, like to hang out in thick brush, under fallen trees, and under and in crevices of rocks and ledges. Show them how to make a small, safe fire and how to put it out completely. When you're by the water explain that water moccasins like to hang out on rocks and roots of trees by the water's edge during the day and swim along the shoreline looking for food at night. Explain that poking sticks into holes (burrows) might incite an angry groundhog or other critter to come out after them. Around here, teach them to identify poison ivy (leaves of three, let it be). Also point out the hairy vines that grow up tree trunks. They may not have leaves, but they have the oils that give you the rash.

After a handful of trips like these, probably when he's about 14, he'll be ready to do longer trips and brave a little weather. Help him build up his own gear with Christmas and Birthday presents and when he's 15-16 take him on a colder weather trip. Plan a trip a few days before the full moon and do a night hike on a moonlit night. Plan another on a new moon and camp where it's far from city lights and do some star gazing. Point out constellations, satellites, and look for shooting stars.

Another great thing you can do here is take him on an overnight float trip. My kids loved those at his age and they still do more canoe trips than hiking now. But they're not much different when it gets down to it and I love to float too when the forest gets to thick in the warm months.

I'd offer some tips on where to go but I haven't spent much time in your neck of the woods, if you ever want to come down near Branson or the Buffalo River I can point you to some nice spots.


Have you ever hiked at ha ha tonka ? that is were i am taking him to start they have some very nice trails one that i haven't hiked yet is 7 miles and it can be cut to 3 with short cuts so thats where iam going to take him . Thank you for the advice!

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#147882 - 03/16/11 03:29 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
One more thought: For a lot of us older folks, the journey is the adventure. For kids, the destination is where the fun starts. Choose shorter routes for kids. And have something fun to do when you get there.

When I was young I was happy to hike---but I would have climbed over Everest to get to a secret fishing spot that had lots of fish.

The rest of the advice here, from Glenn on down, has been terrific. The only thing I would try to teach the first trip is how to build a fire with one match. FUn, easy, and valuable for a lifetime.
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#147884 - 03/16/11 03:38 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
Have you ever hiked at ha ha tonka


No, but I've read about it and seen pictures. That's where there's the ruins of a big old stone building right? Sounds like a perfect spot! Shoot, I'd love to explore around there smile

_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#147887 - 03/16/11 03:56 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
I don't have a lot to add, as my kid is just now nine and I have different concerns with her than I would with a teenager.

FWIW I've taken her on day hikes since perhaps age five and spend a lot of time on how to not become lost and what to do if she does get lost. She always has a whistle and a few other "survival" items, which are more to give her something to do than for actual survival.

I'll take her off trail a way and have her tell me where the trail is, then lead me there. I give her the "hug a tree" talk and emphasize that should she ever truly become lost, to make herself findable (and use the whistle). It seems some kids hide from rescue folks, thinking they're in trouble. I also note her shoes so rescue folks would know what footprints to look for should the unthinkable actually happen.

With a teenager i'd at least discuss what each of you will do should you become separated. I'll guess the typical teenage boy will likely try to hike himself "out of trouble" and can cover a lot of territory in a short time. If you can make the hike itself a nature walk and pick a fun destination, you should have a great time.

Cheers,


Edited by Rick_D (03/17/11 01:26 PM)
_________________________
--Rick

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#147896 - 03/16/11 08:45 PM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Try scouts, or (if he's ready) a venture program.

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#147910 - 03/17/11 01:01 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: billstephenson]
lakeozarkman Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 8
Well if you ever want to come down i would love to show you the area it is probubly one of the most beautifull places ive hiked

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#147911 - 03/17/11 01:02 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: Rick_D]
lakeozarkman Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 8
[quote=Rick_D]I don't have a lot to add, as my kid is just now nine and I have different concerns with her than I would with a teenager.

FWIW I've taken her on day hikes since perhaps age five and spend a lot of time on how to not become lost and what to do if she does get lost. She always has a whistle and a few other "survival" items, which are more to give her something to do than for actual survival.

I'll take her off trail a way and have her tell me where the trail is, then lead me there. I give her the "hug a tree" talk and emphasize that should she ever truly become lost, to make herself findable (and use the whistle). It seems some kids hide from rescue folks, thinking they're in trouble. I also note her shoes so rescue folks would know what footprints to look for should the inthinkable actually happen.

With a teenager i'd at least discuss what each of you will do should you become separated. I'll guess the typical teenage boy will likely try to hike himself "out of trouble" and can cover a lot of territory in a short time. If you can make the hike itself a nature walk and pick a fun destination, you should have a great time.



Edited by lakeozarkman (03/17/11 01:03 AM)

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#147912 - 03/17/11 01:02 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: billstephenson]
lakeozarkman Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By billstephenson
Quote:
Have you ever hiked at ha ha tonka


No, but I've read about it and seen pictures. That's where there's the ruins of a big old stone building right? Sounds like a perfect spot! Shoot, I'd love to explore around there smile


Cheers,
Well if you ever want to come down i would love to show you the area it is probubly one of the most beautifull places ive hiked

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#147919 - 03/17/11 10:03 AM Re: New to the forum/ Question [Re: lakeozarkman]
Slowfoot Offline
member

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Missouri
I've been to Ha Ha Tonka. I remember the spring area and natural bridge areas were very nice, as were the castle ruins. It's been at least 6 years ago, though. It is one of my sister's favorite places to hike since she lives about an hour away.

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