After participating in this forum for a few years, I pick up the idea that for a number of the fellows, your female significant others do not like backpacking or the out-of-doors. Since I have been hiking, climbing and backpacking since a kid, this puzzles me, particularly now that the lighter weight equipment really allows women to carry a reasonable portion of their body weight. (That was a problem in the old days - a 60 pound pack is daunting for a 110 pound person). I am curious, what are the major reasons that the women you know do not like backpacking? or even car camping? Or even being out-of-doors?

My guess at reasons would be:

1) too dirty (I wash every day and stay quite clean)
2) too cold (solved by the proper clothes and sleeping bag)
3) cooking is hard (well, fellows, you do the cooking if that's the problem)
4) "bathroom" chores (I prefer the woods - can pee anytime I want and do not have to wait in line!)
5) boring (not if you plan enough time to explore, bring a good book or have an entertaining backpack partner)
6) hard (women who spend 2 hours a day at the gym still say this)
7) too scarey (those of us who grew up running in the woods as kids do not feel this way)
8) like to look nice (nothing says you cannot have stylish backpack clothes)
9) no shopping malls (well, yes, that is true)
10) too wet, lousy weather (a lot of areas have delightful weather)
11) bugs (I get more bugs in my garden)
12) dangerous (yet they drive - a more dangerous activity)

1,2,9, and 11. I was making some headway with her, but then her knee went out. She's having surgery next week, so we'll see after the recuperation and rehab.

Mostly, though, it just doesn't appeal to her - much the same way that her extensive flower garden and sewing hobbies just don't appeal to me. No particular reason; she just doesn't find it fun or interesting.

Wednesday I attended an all day seminar overlooking the 1st tee on the course where Jack Nicklaus won the US Senior Open in 1993. Some people enjoy playing "hit and hunt", some of us enjoy hiking.

The barriers that you list can be overcome, but some people will still prefer other actvities.

I did a 5 night hike early in May and had my own problems with #4 or should I say #2. My right knee became swollen on the second day and going to the bathroom was "problematic" for the balance of the trip.

The deal I have with my wife is I do not have to watch Dancing with the Stars with her and she does not have to hike with me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My wife grew up in a family that backcountry camped, via horse packing. When we first married, we did some backpacking together. Over the years she just didn't engage in enough physical activity to keep truly fit.

She isn't overweight, but she just can't hike like she used to. A 1000 ft elevation gain on a six mile dayhike pushes her up to her physical limit. Unfortunately, finding flat trails around here is a stretch. Everything gains elevation it seems like.

When we backpack now, I am the mule and we don't go on very challenging trails or very far. But we still get the odd overnight in, now and then. She likes the idea, but she still shortchanges herself in terms of yearlong conditioning. I express this to her, gently, but refuse to nag her. It has to come from within.

We do most of our tent camping from a car nowadays.

Good question! My husband doesn't enjoy backpacking, camping or kayaking, either, although he likes golf. When we met, we were both career people and, though we did hike together occasionally, the subject of out-of-doors activities didn't really come up except that I enjoyed fishing and he did not.

Not to hijack the post in any way, but another question might be: Is it better that couples have separate interests rather than share them? I know when I was playing golf, playing together was usually not a fun situation. And yet I often envy my sister and her husband who both hike, backpack, climb and kayak together.

I do enjoy my time alone. Maybe it's better this way.

Yes, the built-in backpack partner is a dream of mine! Actually, my ideal backpack partner would be a sister, a twin, if I had one.

I think that pretty much covers it for my better half. I'd love for her to come out
with me, but It's not to be. I grew up hunting and fishing and running around in the
sticks - she didn't. We have our own seperate interests and that's fine. After 19 years,
I ain't gonna try to change her... Of course we men are always malleable and can
be taught new things, so I don't undertstand the intractableness of the female of the species <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think it's great to have interests you share, and great to have interests you don't. If my wife was just like me I think it'd drive me nuts <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

An no, she doesn't like to backpack either.. Mind you, we both hate golf! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Fortunately, the woman I know loves hiking and backpacking. Part of the reason I suspect is because we both work for an airline, and years ago, to maximize our trips away while being paid a slave wage, we learned that a tent over the head vs. a hotel cut costs dramatically.

But I really think I have her dad to thank. When she was a kid in the late '60s/early '70s, her dad would literally pull the car over and the family 'cowboy camped' on a blanket -- no tent. She remembers a herd of deer, maybe elk (buffalo?) literally running over them one night out west. Strange that she still loves it, 'cause her older brother wouldn't be caught dead camping now (or should I say would be found dead camping now.)

A few months ago she got diagnosed with an out-of-whack thyroid (hypo- it's hereditary) with all the symptoms, yet she insisted on going backpacking for our 20th anniversery a few weeks ago. We scaled back the plan but still went. She pretty much was asleep in her camp chair/sleep pad once we hiked to our spot and got the tent up, but she still loved the trip.

In twenty years here in Miami, we've only found one woman willing to go backpacking with us (more like she found us), and she was twenty years younger. It's definitely not part of the "culture" of women in Miami, although I'm sure there are a few who do backpack and hike. But once we get to a trail in CA or CO, the NW or Canada, she realizes she's far from being alone.

I am coyotemasters 14yr old daughter and I don't get what there is to like. I never really liked it from the start. It just seems boring to me. I know some spots are pretty, but sleeeping, over night on a 1in thick mattress and walking around poinlessly, while avoiding the natural pest (bugs) with no real entertainment. Is just boring to me. I see no excitment whatsoever in it. And what's the point? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Seriously. And isn't it funner to just stay at home and read a book, hang with friends, and adore your pets?

Coyotemaster here now: You can see what I'm up against.

My wife-to-be isn't really "outdoorsey". She said she would camp at a campsite as long as there was bathroom facilities.

But you know what? That's ok. The important thing is that she supports my interests. She got me a gym membership to condition for a big hike in the future. She has bought me gift certificates to outfitters for birthdays and Christmas, and she helps me bargain hunt for good deals on hiking/backpacking gear and apparel.

She's a great mother and a great woman. Yeah, she may not care to do much hiking with me, but I also don't share interests with her. But I do support her in any interests she has.

I don't particularly care to go with her to outlet malls, but instead I offer to watch our son so she can go with her girlfriends.

Supporting eachothers interests and goals keeps the relationship strong.


Tom

I have a friend who's roughly half my age; she goes on day hikes with me from time to time. I invited her on an easy overnight backpacking trip. She said okay because she assumed that every few miles there would be a restroom. When I told her no way would anyone pay to helicopter around the backcountry servicing restrooms and you get to dig and dump, she decided she would be a day hiker forever. I have the feeling if she hadn't run into me, she'd still be one of those who imagines Yosemite is a great big public zoo with no fences and that hiking in tractionless shoes up some of the crumbly, rough trails is perfectly safe.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Still waiting for her to have to #2 on a day hike. She had her first pee in the woods a couple day hikes ago - freaked her out.

As a teenager I loved wandering around by myself in the woods and frequently vanished for hours on family camping trips with a good book. I saw a lot of wildlife while perched on a stump high in the Sierras. Guess I was lucky I always found my way back to where I was supposed to be.

Yep, that's a tough sell. I suppose she doesn't get that there are a lot of burly, manly men who scale mountains to watch? Saw some really nice eye candy on trails, biking and hiking and heading to scale rocks. They tend to take off their shirts on sunny days, too. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Let's see,

1) too dirty (I wash every day and stay quite clean)
2) too cold (solved by the proper clothes and sleeping bag)
3) cooking is hard (well, fellows, you do the cooking if that's the problem)
4) "bathroom" chores (I prefer the woods - can pee anytime I want and do not have to wait in line!)

6) hard (women who spend 2 hours a day at the gym still say this)
7) too scarey (those of us who grew up running in the woods as kids do not feel this way)
8) like to look nice (nothing says you cannot have stylish backpack clothes)

10) too wet, lousy weather (a lot of areas have delightful weather)
11) bugs (I get more bugs in my garden)
12) dangerous (yet they drive - a more dangerous activity)

So, those are some of the reasons. She wants to go, but I think #4 is the biggest concern from your list. #12 and #7 is a result of last years incident with a bear taking a 4yr old out of the tent in the National Forest very close to were we live. I think there are two reasons that you didn't list. One is kids. We have 4 little ones age 7,5,2,1. The 7 and 2 yr olds are girls, and the 5 and 1 are boys. With 4 kids, backpacking is really hard on two adults. The 2 youngest would have to be carried most of the time plus gear for 6 people. I could do it, but I wouldn't want her to have to carry more than just her stuff. It is doable with the just the two oldest, but my wife doesn't want to leave the two youngest overnight+ with someone else ( We have had this discussion a lot, maybe grandma someday). She doesn't mind leaving them with someone for a few hours, but overnight is too long. Sleeping comfort is another major concern and probably trumps #4. This problem, along with #1,2,3,8,10, and 11 can all be solved with proper gear. But, our budget is tight. It will take time. And by the time the gear issue is solved satisfactorily, our two youngest will probably be 4 and 5, and can walk with a little gear, and our oldest will be able to carry their stuff minus food and cooking gear. So, hope is there. In the meantime, we go car camping a lot, as well as many day hikes. I always end up with 2 kids on my back <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . I also have a rule that at least my son comes Bping with me every time I go. He absolutely loves it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That is him in my avatar last year at Lake Catherine between Alta and Brighton. He didn't want to stand in the picture (look at his face) because he wanted to run around the lake instead.

I'd say primarily #6 and the unmentioned #13 (current way of life). For #6 my wife has never been real active, and I don't see that happening at any point in the near future until #13, our current "way of life" is resolved. What I mean with #13 is that we have two small children, and it is not practical for both of us to get away at this point in time together. If we ever do it's usually to do something more "relaxing" like spend a weekend at a B&B (Bed & Breakfast) or something of that nature.

She actaully doesn't mind car camping as we have done that before, and has expressed interest in trying backpacking. So, maybe that is something we can try sometime in the future. I got into backpacking after we got married by the way.

I myself am blessed with a very close friend that is also in almost an identical situation to me. He has a wife that doesn't backpack, two kids and a full time job. So we almost always go together. And to be honest I think I like it that way better. It's a good chance to hang out with a buddy, and "get away from it all" for a few days if you know what I mean.

I do not buy the "boring". My girls were once 14-year-olds and honestly, at that age just about everything but hanging out with friends is "boring". And it IS boring for kids if they are not full participants. My solution was to let the kids take a friend and have them plan trips, learn to read the map, build fires, cook. Also, having a goal such as reaching a peak was less "boring". Kids also seem to do better with water sports and the out of doors. Canoeing, kyaking. Something with a challenge. And a role model helps - other outdoorsy girls and women. I think at that age ALL activites with their parents are "boring" and ANY activity with a gaggle of their friends is fun.

My 16- and18-month old granddaughters both love to go outside. My girls loved the outdoors as kids and now as adults. I really think it is natural for kids to love the outdoors. I know how much I enjoyed my girls as we backpacked. It is so rewarding if you can get them interested. I wish you the best luck, and don't give up. Maybe some day she will see it differently.

Hence why I'm single, for the last little while I've had a new policy, 2nd date is a trip to the range or out fishing/hunting. Every girl so far as failed this test, so they don't stick around. Eventually I guess I'll find a girl that will like the outdoors and stick around. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As for girls I know, a combination of numbers 1, 4, 5, 6, and 10 are the "problems" according to what I gather from the girls I know.

Number 3 cannot be a problem since they can't cook, and they know I can. And number 7 and 12 were never brought up when it comes to girls and camping with me. Must be the Jeans and the Red and Black Plaid Jackets gives them a sense of security. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Dimitri

You mean you use a mattress/sleeping pad ?? Your dad has you spoiled. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I'm a young guy (20), I know many girls who feel the same way as you about the wilderness. In my opinion you need to stop comparing the bush to civilization, but instead compare civilization to the bush.

I was a city boy, born and raised till I was 10, I moved out of the city and kept on comparing the country to the city, so I always wanted to move back to the city, a handful of years later I did move back. But you know, I stopped comparing the country to the city, but started to compare the city to the country, and I moved out of the city, and I'll never move back the big city. .... Its all a matter of perspective. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Get your dad to make up 2 packs, one for you and one for him, and go out into the bush for the weekend, Start Early Saturday and be back home by Sunday evening so it wont be a long trip. Forget about civilization the moment you step out of the car for your little trip. Nothing exists other then the bush at that point in the world.

If your dad is good at using a map and compass, get a map of the area, and make yourselves a new trail, not a marked trail to go through, make up points based on the map and possibly Google Earth of what you'd like to see, to give you direction to this "aimless" walking your talking about.

Entertainment in the bush? Well thats why you learn field craft. Learn to start camp fires, how to construct shelters in the bush using whats around you to do it, learn to set snares (if legal), learn to gather useful items in the bush, or get yourself a calapsable fishing rod and make it dinner for Sunday to give you incentive to catch fish.

Dimitri

I was born a city girl, but my parents took me out to the countryside and mountains very early, only for day walks. My imagination about "the great outdoors" and faraway travel and adventure was running wild with movies and books, heaps of books. I had to wait until my early teens to go camping AT LEAST! Fell in love with that, did some summer hiking/kayaking/sailing camps.
Being a woman "backpacker" doesn't bother me at all, it's my other self, not having to bother much about the supposedly womanly behaviour, or barely the essentials.

I don't mind being dirty, if I know I can get clean soon.
I don't care about my looks as long as I'm comfortable
I'm not a house fairy, and can go with the bare minimum and without shopping
I'm not afraid of the "woods", creepers, bugs...

And I like to scare all my woman friends and relatives with horror stories about life in the wild.

Actually, many of them have some secret envy...

With my very active wife-to-be, it's B.O. She can't stand the smell of her own armpits, and doesn't like the idea of us trying to be cozy together after a few days in the woods. We're working on it; there are several ways of staying clean while on a hike. We're going on our first multi-nighter soon.

She loves the outdoors, but she has absolutely no interest in the gear aspect of it; that's my department. She says she's glad she benefits from my fascination with lightweight gear, but her eyes glaze over if I start using buzzwords like "base layer" or "loft". We've recently agreed that the presence of carbon fiber in my equipment means I'm an expert, not crazy.

She really likes cooking, though. I think I have a winner. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My wife doesn't like BO either (still trying to figure out why she married me, hey, I at least take a shower once a week, whether I need it or not <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). My suggestion, baby wipes. Bring a little more than you think you need and use them to wipe down if no water is available at the end of the day.

People either love or hate hiking - or any outdoor activity.

I honestly have no idea why I love going hiking. Why it doesn't bother me to drop my pants and go to the bathroom in the woods or to stink of BO for days. I don't care if I am dirty when out.

In most cases I hike with my female friends who all hike - the internet has seen to that nicely. My husband hikes as well but he hasn't the free time I do.

But in the end...is it bad that partners do other things? Not at all. It is fair though to at least try the other's hobby once!

My partner's "other" activity is motorcycles. I am a good sport and go with him now and then. I yet have achieved mental calmness - I am terrified and think I am going to die most of the time. Our compromise is that we motorcycle to Yosemite and then do a day's hiking to calm my nerves before we head back!

I hear ya! First time I rode on the back of a motorcycle was a wild trip of about 50 miles of two-lane mountain roads. On the straightaways we were exceeding 100mph! I didn't think I was going to die---I KNEW I was going to die! And no one told me to tuck my hair into my helmet. It took days to untangle it! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now is a good time to use a motorcycle, though... a lot better gas mileage!

My main complaint is the noise. I hate loud noise!

I've spent a bit of time camping with 14 year old girls and I have to agree with wandering_daisy, plan a trip just for your daughter and her friends. Set them up and then let them play and explore like your not even there. Ignore them as much as possible. I used to bring books that I wanted to read and a lounge chair.

I almost always asked my girls to invite some friends when I took them camping. The more the merrier. I made sure they set up their campsite far enough away from me so they had privacy and I could ignore the giggling, yet close enough so both they and I felt safe with the situation. I had only one extraordinary rule... No music except what they made on their own.

I'd help when asked but for the most part they set up their own tents, gathered their own wood, started their fire, cooked hot dogs and roasted marshmallows to make smores. They always stayed up way too late, and made lots of noise, and I always nearly perfectly ignored them unless they came to me for something. After I made breakfast, we'd head out on a hiking trail, bushwhack around a bit, or go swimming. I made them pick blackberries a few times and we even made a pie once when we got home, which BTW, I never even got a piece of...

Being out there with their friends, they all made great discoveries together and they couldn't wait to show me what they had found. Sometimes I shared what I knew, and other times I was simply amazed with them at what they had found. I think that knowing they were discovering things and places that I knew nothing about made it more fun for all of us.

Now my youngest girls are in their early 20's, and they all still go camping, floating (canoeing) and hiking with those same girlfriends. Sometimes they even want to come with me when I'm going and now we even sit at the same fire and talk and laugh together.

I got to read some of Twain's best stuff, some great Steinbeck, and one of my all time favorites camping books, The Lost World during those trips and, best of all, I got to know my girls and their friends, and they got to know me.

Kindest Regards,

Bill