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#124619 - 12/03/09 12:04 AM Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB...
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

The "what if you get sick" thread here has me thinking, and I'm gonna post to start the discussion, because I honestly don't know a good answer here.

I solo a fair bit. I always tell my wife, dad, neighbor and a buddy (all on my plb contact list) where I'm going and when I'm expected back.

So, here's the thing. Let's say I have my bout of vomiting and diahreaa.. I'm not gonna die.. I'm just sick. but I'm two or three days into five days of trail. I'm expected home three days from now, but I'm sick and really can't go on. I can hole up in my hammock. stay hydrated, sleep and get better for a day or two, and then probably walk out fine, say, two or three days late. There's nobody else around to tell hiking through, and I have no cell coverage.

So there's your scenario. For argument's sake, let's say I'm oh, hmm.. Somewhere in Jasper park. I know being two days late, my Wife's probably gonna call the Ranger's office.

I'm certainly NOT going to tell my wife not to expect me
on a particular day, that's pretty basic safety..

So, here's my dilemma.. I *have* a PLB with me. I am *not* in danger of life or limb. at worst I'm a bit uncomfortable, need to rest, and maybe wash out some shorts sick I'm not looking for "yuppie 911". I have adequate supplies. On the flip side, I know I'm probably gonna have people looking for me if my wife calls..

So.. What am I to do.. Push button? or not push button?

(For the record, If you're gonna make me make the call now, I'd
probably *not* push the button... but if sar showed up to find me nothing worse than having the trots and the barfs, I'd feel pretty bad about it...)

Opinions (Especially if you fly SAR)?
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#124621 - 12/03/09 12:38 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
Paul Offline
member

Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 778
Loc: California
Not push button. With a caveat. The scenario you described leaves quite a bit of fudge factor. You're a couple days of normal walking from the trailhead, and sick. If you wait, and you fell better in a day and a half, you can get going, and then you'll be maybe a day or a half day late getting to the trailhead. call home the soonest you can, and you'll hopefully stop the show before it starts. My answer might be different if you were 5 days of waking from a trailhead (which you might be able to pull off up there in the Frozen North)and still feeling sick with only a day left, then the situation would be different. Or the other way, if you're only 1 day from the trailhead, maybe you try to stagger out no matter how crappy you feel. Different scenarios, different answers.
All of it brings up an interesting thought - perhaps this is a case for the SPOT, using the tracking feature and the customized meassage. If you keep the tracking on while you are stopped, the folks at home can see you are not going anywhere. Then, if you had a pre-programmed message telling them you'll be late but okay, you send that and all is good. Assuming, of course, that your SPOT makes contact with the sattelite. How bold an assumption this is with the new version of the SPOT is yet to be seen.
It's also a reminder of why it is a good idea to be conservative in your planning of days and mileage, giving you time to deal with something like this if it happens. And it does happen. My son got sick this summer and we had to bail in the middle of a trip, after sitting out a couple days while he was sick. Still don't know what hit him. He could not have gone anywhere for a day or two - fainted at one point and was weak as a kitten.

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#124622 - 12/03/09 12:41 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I would not push the button in the first 24 hours of illness. If after that I was getting significantly worse, then yes.

I schedule at least one contingency day in every trip, two for longer trips. This avoids having others panic if I am a little late. Yes, it adds some danger, but I have the supplies for those two extra days so I really am not in a lot of trouble.

I think PLBs really are quite useless if you have only one option - push button or not. I would not even get one if it did not have at least two functions - button for "rescue me" and another for "warning -having trouble but do not resuce me".

There are also other options than full-on call the SAR. Maybe the first step is for a group of friends to look for you. Not call in the SAR right away.

Perhaps you need to devise a plan or action for several scenarios. Write this down so your wife has a set of instructions to follow. Sort of like a decision tree. For example, 1 day late; weather good = wait 24 hours, weather poor = start step 1 of rescue (maybe step 1 is notify a group of friends and be ready to go out and look in 4 hours).

Just some thoughts.

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#124623 - 12/03/09 12:46 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: wandering_daisy]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Don't push the button. SAR might come hurtling in to check on you, and they would find that you are not at death's door. I certainly wouldn't have any problem with that, if I were on the SAR team.

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#124624 - 12/03/09 12:55 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: Paul]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

To be clear and avoid ambiguity..

I will be two or three days late. yes, I don't know that at the outset - so I have decisions to be made as I get later and later.

I do build "fudge factor" into that, so assume I also know my wife will probably be calling for help after 48 hours - She will know my start point, exit point, planned route, and expected out time, So I'm +48 hours past the fudge factor.




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#124625 - 12/03/09 12:58 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: wandering_daisy]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Well, mine is a real PLB. and only has one button. no options.

So bear that in mind...

Now the flip side of it is that my wife *is* aware I have it with me. so she probably does know that I'm either 1) dead, or 2) really delayed but not seriously hurt. (since I've pretty much told her that's the situation if I'm really overdue and the button hasn't been pressed....) She will tell anyone she calls that I *do* have the PLB with me.



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#124637 - 12/03/09 10:14 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Sounds like your best option is to have a nice cup of tea (perhaps enhanced with one of your magic elixirs)ready for the heroic, selfless, self sacrificing SAR workers (who in reality are enjoying the change in the routine and the chance to get out)speeding to your location.

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#124643 - 12/03/09 12:06 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1348
Loc: Seattle, WA
Phat,

I hike alone and carry a plb. I tell my wife to not call SAR until the morning of the day after my expected return day. This is because the most likely "late" scenario for me would be that I almost make it to the trail head by nightfall of the last day and need some morning daylight to get to the car and to a phone. SAR isn't going to start a search in the dark anyway and I definitely don't want my wife calling wolf.

If I am badly injured on the first day of a five day trip and I had set up some protocol with my wife that delays SAR any longer than this and my plb got lost or didn't work then I would be that much closer to death. So I don't want to delay her calling any later than the morning after I'm due home.

If I was OK but only able to go slowly because of sickness or injury and this was going to make me later than the morning after my due day then I would camp each night on the trail with a note on my tent asking people to check on me. That way I could at least relay my condition to the ranger, wife, etc. If I couldn't relay a message via another hiker and was to be more that the "morning after" late then I would press the PLB on the morning after. If SAR is launched it will be easier for them to contact me if they know where I am. At this point I'm not doing them a favor by not pushing the button. Not pressing the button might show them I'm not a wimp or a misuser of the plb but will cause them extra work. By pressing the PLB the local ranger might just have to walk up the trail a few miles and talk to me. Game over.

If, however, I am too sick or hurt to walk out and things don't get better after a day's rest then I'm pressing the plb button. Who know's what direction my illness or injury is going to take. It's a gamble to hunker down and assume things will get better several days into the future. There might be infection, blood poisoning, or god knows what going on and things might get worse, not better, without medical attention.

So far I'm comfortable with the protocol outlined above. Discussions like this might help me refine or change it. I'm glad you brought up the topic.

Just to keep things in perspective. I heard of one guy on Mt. Washington calling for help because he was tired and a big storm was coming in. A lady in Washington many years ago was rescued because she had blisters. These do no qualify for button pushing in my book.

I too would like to hear from more SAR people. Perhaps they could suggest a protocol for when to push the button.

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#124648 - 12/03/09 02:06 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
No, you wouldn't push the button unless your symptoms get worse. If you're becoming incapacitated from either pain or weakness so that you can't get to more water, if you (as I mentioned in the other thread) start having appendicitis symptoms, then it does become a life-and-death emergency. A sneakier possibility is if you keep barfing up part of the water you are drinking and/or keep having severe diarrhea. I found out with one of my sons (who got food poisoning on a weekend outing) that this can lead to severe dehydration within a couple of days. He ended up in the hospital!

With the symptoms you describe, you could probably rest a day and then start walking out, although you might have to take it pretty slow. If the worst came to the worst, you might meet SAR on your way out.

US Federal law is pretty specific on the "life-or-death emergency" that must exist. I don't know if I would want to test this clause just to save SAR some extra work! The regs may be a little different in Canada.

I tell my family (daughter-in-law) to wait 24 hours after I expect to be out and within cell phone range (which may be several hours' drive from the trailhead). If I bust a leg the second day of a long trip--well, that's what my PLB is for!

I, too, would like to hear from SAR folks about this. Anybody out there connected with the Coast Guard (and therefore familiar with Federal regs on PLB use)?



Edited by OregonMouse (12/03/09 02:19 PM)
Edit Reason: added comment
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#124652 - 12/03/09 03:35 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
(Preamble) This is why the SPOT concept, if perfected, is preferable to a PLB. But they have yet to prove it to my satisfaction.

You need to establish very specific guidelines with your wife on what you will do and what she will do. 48 hours overdue is a LONG time. I'd advise she contact authorities after, say 12 hours explaining you're overdue and that you have a PLB. They'd probably know if one had been triggered (and how does that process work, exactly?). At that point, the right folks know someone's overdue. Your further understanding should be that after X hours over your agreed time (e.g., 48 in summer, 24 in winter) you will trigger the device if you know you're not reasonably close to making the trailhead. They're likely to be gearing up for a search anyway, and it will help ease their task.

Whether it's an equipment failure, moderate injury or illness, at some point S&R response is warranted. If it labels you "yuppie" instead of "Bear Grylls" so be it.

Cheers,

Rick

Originally Posted By phat

To be clear and avoid ambiguity..

I will be two or three days late. yes, I don't know that at the outset - so I have decisions to be made as I get later and later.

I do build "fudge factor" into that, so assume I also know my wife will probably be calling for help after 48 hours - She will know my start point, exit point, planned route, and expected out time, So I'm +48 hours past the fudge factor.




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#124654 - 12/03/09 05:45 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: Rick_D]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

You need to establish very specific guidelines with your wife on what you will do and what she will do. 48 hours overdue is a LONG time.

Well, some would say yes and some would say no. On a weekender
I'd say yes, that's too long. on a five day trip I'm talking about I do say two days. (and I do have these discussions with her)

I would contend on my 5 day trip I've said here, *I* am personally comfortable with 48 hours. I've spent extra time out unplanned before. If I delayed by that much, yes it's a long time to wait, but I'll be brutally honest (I won't with my wife) I have a PLB and know my skills. The scenario where you are going to find me alive after more than 48 hours where I have NOT pushed the plb button is the one above. Alternatively I will have been seriously hurt and pushed the PLB "I can haz helicopter?" button. I used to worry about 48 hourse before I carried the plb. Now I know It's either gonna be the scenario above, or a body hunt. Anything else I'd have pushed the button.

Quote:

e.g., 48 in summer, 24 in winter) you will trigger the device if you know you're not reasonably close to making the trailhead. They're likely to be gearing up for a search anyway, and it will help ease their task.


And therein is the dilemma.. I know this. The problem is my pushing the button in this scenario is technically illegal in canada, and I believe also in the united states.. I could be charged and face a very hefty fine for doing so.

Quote:

If it labels you "yuppie" instead of "Bear Grylls" so be it.


I *Am* a yuppie. I'm educated beyond my intelligence and have a carbon footprint the size of a small african town. Being called a yuppie I can accept.

Being called Bear Grylls is fighting words. What I'm not is a dangerously deceptive idiot selling senstionalism. Call me a yuppie anyday.


Edited by phat (12/03/09 05:45 PM)
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#124655 - 12/03/09 05:51 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: oldranger]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By oldranger
Sounds like your best option is to have a nice cup of tea (perhaps enhanced with one of your magic elixirs)ready for the heroic, selfless, self sacrificing SAR workers (who in reality are enjoying the change in the routine and the chance to get out)speeding to your location.


Heh.. Interestingly as a good subject of Her Majesty, that's pretty much *exactly* as I usually start these situations. Sitting down and "brewing up" is almost always what I have done for many years when outside and confronted with.. hmmm... now what..

Serious decisions are always made after tea..

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#124660 - 12/03/09 07:22 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
My ? is if you have a clear plan you left with your wife which I do, a map with the loop outlined and the usual details, would the first choice once your wife called the ranger station be SAR, or since you have a route outlined wouldn't it make more sense for the rangers to follow your route first with say a satelite phone.
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#124661 - 12/03/09 07:45 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
x


Edited by Jimshaw (12/03/09 10:47 PM)
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#124665 - 12/03/09 09:08 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1348
Loc: Seattle, WA
I did a liitle googling and found a website entitled "Equipped To Survive" with a lot of FAQs and answers. Here's one that seems relevent.

"Q: When should I use my PLB?
A: Every PLB has a sticker that contains the following warning (or something similar): “ONLY USE IN SITUATIONS OF GRAVE AND IMMINENT DANGER” Authorities understand that the seriousness of an emergency can only be determined by the individual at risk and they are not likely to second-guess someone who sincerely believed they were at risk. In general this standard would mean that there is a situation that could result in loss of life, limb, eyesight, etc.

A PLB should be the last line of alert. If available and there is time, attempt to use other means to summon assistance first, such as a cell phone, satellite phone, or radio transceiver.

In general, experience suggests that many who did not survive an emergency waited too long to summon aid. Do not hesitate to summon aid immediately when a situation becomes so serious that a successful outcome is unlikely without an incredible amount of luck."

So, for example, if I hurt my back so seriously that walking out might cripple or parlyze me I'd use the PLB.


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#124669 - 12/03/09 10:25 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: bigb]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Things may be different in Canadian parks, but in most parks, calling the rangers is the same as calling SAR. The kind of information provided in this example is truly superb, and a huge factor in a successful operation. Probably the first thing to do would be to send a team out along the route on what is termed a "hasty search."

While that is going on, someone is preparing for the next operations. It is like playing chess, only in the wilderness.

Of course, people who are this careful in their preparations are rarely the ones who get into trouble...

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#124683 - 12/04/09 06:52 AM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: oldranger]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
Its very easy to leave that info thanks to printing maps right of your computer and things of that nature, I solo most of the time and would like the simplest situation if something were to happen, I don't carry a plb
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#124850 - 12/07/09 12:42 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
I think you push the "OK" button every 12 hours. They know where you are and that you are "OK". -- Oops you have a PBL and not a spot.

I would continue the hike at a reduced pace. It is good to test your physical capacity.

Yet another edit. I just heard in the news that if you are even a little late your wife will go after you with a 3 iron. crazy crazy


Edited by food (12/07/09 01:14 PM)
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#124856 - 12/07/09 01:35 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: DJ2]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By DJ2
Phat,

I hike alone and carry a plb. I tell my wife to not call SAR until the morning of the day after my expected return day. This is because the most likely "late" scenario for me would be that I almost make it to the trail head by nightfall of the last day and need some morning daylight to get to the car and to a phone. SAR isn't going to start a search in the dark anyway and I definitely don't want my wife calling wolf.

I don't have time for a full response, but wanted to chime in on this point... oh yes, SAR WILL start a search in the dark! That is when the majority of our searches start here.

More to come...

MNS

P.S. Of course in AK, this time of year, dark starts at 3pm and ends at 10am, so we do alot of winter searches in the dark...


Edited by midnightsun03 (12/07/09 02:55 PM)
Edit Reason: to add the P.S. Comment
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#124861 - 12/07/09 02:49 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: midnightsun03]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Ok, so at least in the US (and maybe Canada?), when you push the button on a PLB it sets off the alarm at the closest "Rescue Coordination Center," which would be US Military (usually Air National Guard). If your complaint is not life or limb, they have the option of billing you for their response. I believe in AK it can be up to $30,000. That may be uniform throughout the US.

On the other hand, if your wife reports you overdue, the most likely responder would be the local SAR group. Even when SAR responds with helo support, it is very unusual for local SAR teams to bill for unnecessary rescues.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO, if you have to hunker down due to illness or minor injury thus making you overdue, is to STICK TO YOUR ORIGINAL ROUTE PLAN and either continue to your end point or return to your start point, BUT DO NOT DEVIATE FROM YOUR PLANNED TRAIL! DO NOT TRY TO TAKE A SHORTCUT! If you're on a 5 day trek they will try to drop searchers into the middle of the trail, as well as send searchers in to hike in from your point of origin as well as in from your ending point. If you're on a 2 day hike they probably won't try to insert people in the middle. If they can't get to an area by air (i.e. rough terrain, no LZ), they will come in on 4-wheelers or snow machines.

I know it is a hard call to make, but sometimes illness can overwhelm you without you realizing it. Dehydration can cause you quickly to become "stupid". You might not even realize how bad off you are until you are too bad off to remember to push the PLB button. If you are hunkered down somewhere with severe vomiting and/or diarrhea and your resting spot does not have a source of water to rehydrate you, you could be in real trouble, real fast. Even if the cause of your illnees remits, it you are severely dehydrated and unable to rehydrate, you're not going to be able to move to a place that has water. I would say that if you have N/V/D and are more than 24 hours without water then heck yes, push that PLB button. It isn't just about what the complaint is, it is also whether you have to tools to recuperate enough to self-rescue. If you run out of food and water, particularly water, before you are able to get back on track, that would constitute a life-or-death situation.

Otherwise, it is ok for SAR to get called out when you are overdue, especially if your wife has detailed plans and knows what the agreed upon "panic point" is. We often get called within just hours of someone failing to show up at their car. Many times we will be walking in from the end point and will run into the overdue hiker. Sometimes they've been injured, but usually they've been delayed by weather or other circumstances, but were otherwise fine. No problem there - we've practiced our skills and had a successful outcome. Like Search Dogs needing a "find" to reinforce their training, so do us SAR folks. So many times we respond to body recoveries, having a live find every once in a while is good for morale.

MNS
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#124872 - 12/07/09 05:28 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: midnightsun03]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
+1 to starting in the dark, regardless of the supposed nature of the emergency (at least in S. Arizona when I was active. I doubt seriously it has changed).

The sun was sinking into the west as I pulled out on the majority of operations. Standard gear was three sources of light, just like going into a cave.

We had many operations where it was clear that prompt reaction was crucial to lives and well-being, regardless of whether the sun was up or not.

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#124874 - 12/07/09 05:40 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: DJ2]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I think the time to call for help is when you feel youneed assistance. The situations you describe as not as clear cut and definite ass say, a broken leg, but I could easily imagine them being quite valid. It is much better to help someone off the mountain before the storm (and easier!) than removing their frozen body after wards. There are blisters and there are blisters. I have seen cases where it would have been very difficult, if not dangerous, to hike out (blood spilling out of the boot makes for treacherous footing).

It is not a good practice for SAR folks to second guess the decision of a victim to pull the trigger and ask for help. People and their capability vary enormously and situations can change suddenly.

An extreme situation - in two operations, the victims wound up arrested and in jail because of crimes they committed just prior to getting in trouble. Rescue first, analyze later.

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#124893 - 12/07/09 11:20 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: phat]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1348
Loc: Seattle, WA
Good info coming in here. Thanks.

Good to know that rescues start even if it is dark.

I still think I'll have my wife call for help the morning after my planned exit day, though. I can think of several pretty ordinary causes of being 1 day late (e.g. foot bridge out after heavy rain.) If I need help sooner I can press the PLB.

I'm still torn about being OK but more than 1 day late. Pressing PLB makes short work of "search" portion of search and rescue and it seems that I'm doing everyone a big favor. I would be violating the "life and limb" rule, however.


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#124908 - 12/08/09 12:00 PM Re: Your Expected Return Time, and your PLB... [Re: DJ2]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
If a big storm is coming in and you're not prepared to ride it out, and you are a day late and/or incapacitated, and/or way off your trail (due to having to hike around high water), and or any number of other scenarios that would lead to a life-threatening situation if you got caught out in the storm, EVEN IF YOU AREN'T INJURED OR SICK, in my opinion I would say that this could be a justifiable reason to push the PLB button to hasten your rescue. At that point it would be a rescue and not a search and/or recovery because your location would be pinpointed. JUST DON'T MOVE FROM YOUR POSITION AFTER YOU HIT THAT BUTTON or all will be more or less for naught. If you can think of several valid reasons to justify your decision then you should be ok. It is really easy to armchair quarterback rescues that appeared unnecessary, but we don't know what was going through the mind of the person who called in a rescue. Dehydration, fear, hunger etc. can disorient a person quickly, and a decision that seems rational to them at the time might in hindsight seem utterly rediculous. On the flip side of the coin are the folks who DON'T push the PLB who may have hundreds or thousands of man-hours spent searching for them, and when they are located they are perplexed over all the fuss because they didn't consider themselves "lost" or "overdue" (often for the same faulty thought processes that lead others to "over-react" and push the PLB button). A couple of years ago there was a MASSIVE search for two young women overdue from an overnight hike in Denali National Park. When they were ultimately found alive 6 days later (after thousands of $$$ were spent bringing in search assets) they told searchers that they never believed they were lost. How can you wander around the wilderness for 6 days, know that you have not been able to find your way back to your starting point, AND NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE LOST? Anyway... strange things go through your head when the unexpected happens. That they didn't die was a tremendous stroke of luck, and due, in large part, to their positive attitude. However, logic would have reasoned that when they didn't show up at work at the lodge people would come looking for them, and staying put would have been the best thing for everyone.

When you leave instructions behind that include "when to panic," and you know that you have met those criteria, you KNOW people will be out looking for you. Your energy will be best spent making your whereabouts known. If you are at panic point +24, nowhere near walking out on your own within the next 24 hours, or well off your planned route, for goodness sake, push that button. At that point you're talking about the health and safety of those searching for you, not just your own safety. Even if you're healthy, just "misplaced", it is ok to let people know where you are if you are reasonably certain they are looking for you.

MNS

MNS
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

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#124916 - 12/08/09 02:31 PM Sounds Good To Me. [Re: midnightsun03]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1348
Loc: Seattle, WA
Thanks for the perspective. Sounds like good logic to me.

I'm glad I'm having this conversation here rather than with myself on the trail during an emergency. Much easier to think in the comfort of my home.

One thing I learned last year with a hurt back (at home) is that is is really hard to think when I'm in intense pain. So any prethinking that I can do will help if I'm ever in that situation on the trail.

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