Hi everyone,

I have sort of been lurking around these forums for a bit, and finally decided to post because I have some questions I havent really found definitive answers for. I have been looking at buying a new tent (such as the Quarter dome or tarptent scarp 2), but I have read various things that make me somewhat uncomfortable with buying a silnylon tent in particular UV degredation and low hydrostatic head. I am in Oklahoma, so it gets pretty sunny here during the summer. Is it feasible to leave a silnylon tent set up during the day if you are just carcamping? Or do you pretty much have to take it down and put it back up at night? On a related note, I remember reading that the color of the fly can affect how badly it is damaged by UV, is that true? If so, does it make sense to seek out a tent with a dark rainfly?

Then also, how well does silnylon perform in a thunderstorm? (Oklahoma thunderstorms get pretty nasty; I accidentally camped once in a county with a tornado warning, but that was my own stupidity). Does misting become an issue with very heavy rain and high winds?

I guess I just worry about the long term longetivity of silnylon with oklahoma summers and if I do get caught in a serious thunderstorm if I can expect to have water misting through the fly on me all night.

Thanks for any help you guys can give!!

I don't think the Quarter Dome uses silnylon for it's rainfly. The Tarptent Scarp is made of silnylon but is of a different (single wall) construction. I do not think that misting would be a problem with the Quarter Dome but it is heavier than is the Scarp. I have had several single wall, silnylon tents (SMD Luna Solo, SMD Gatewood Cape, and TT Contrail)and have never had a problem with misting even in some Arizona thunderstorm. But, I have had problems with condensation with all single wall tents. After testing both single and double wall tents I have come to prefer the freedom from condensation that comes with a good double wall tent. You can purchase solo double wall tents that weigh about 2 lb (for example the Big Agnes Fly Creek); they are small, even cramped. Or, if you are willing to deal with some condensation, you can get a larger single-wall tent and try to avoid the wet walls when you find dew forming on the inside. You pays your money and takes your choice.

This is a Scarp 2

As is obvious from Franco's photo, the Scarp is a double-wall tent. So are several other Tarptent models.

Another difference between the double-wall Tarptents and "traditional" US-made double wall tents is that the latter require the inner tent to be set up first. If it's raining when you set up or break camp, your inner tent will be soaked. With the double wall Tarptents and a number of other "cottage industry" tents in which the fly and inner tent are sold separately (such as the Six Moon Designs Haven and the Mountain Laurel Designs "mids"), the fly is set up first, keeping the inner tent dry even in a downpour. I understand that with the double-wall Tarptents, the inner clips under the fly so you can set up both at the same time, again keeping the inner tent dry.

My experience with double wall tents is that you get just as much condensation; the difference is that it's on the underside of the tent fly, so you can't access it to wipe it off. After a number of incidents in which the condensation leaked through the inner tent, leaving puddles on my tent floor and sleeping bag, I got rid of my double-wall tent. I far prefer my condensation where I can reach it!

As mentioned in another recent thread here, urethane coated nylon tents are actually far more vulnerable to UL damage than is silnylon. All nylon is vulnerable, but the urethane coating on "traditional" tents is far more vulnerable than the nylon. Once that urethane coating deteriorates, the only place for the tent is the garbage can. Silicone-impregnated nylon lasts a lot longer. I have used silnylon tents since 2005 and have seen no deterioration. I also have never had the so-called "misting," even in heavy rain and hail and during extended tests (half an hour or more) with a high-pressure nozzle on my garden hose. I'm not saying misting never happens, but I've never experienced it!

As far as strength goes, I've had my 80-lb. dog charge through my tent guyropes at full speed, with no damage, several times. The same happened with 6-year-old grandkids (only the kid was slightly damaged, not the tent). (The dog was a slower learner!) For all silnylon looks so fragile, it's amazingly tough stuff. I've also been in hailstorms that left several inches of hail on the ground afterwards, with no damage to the tent.

Thanks for the replies,

I'm pretty sure that the quarter dome uses nylon treated with silicone on one side and a PU coating on the inside. I guess I was calling that silnylon (although I know the PU coating makes it weaker) although maybe silnylon only refers to nylon with only a silicone coating?

Anyway, that is one of the reasons I like the scarp 2, is that the inner tent and fly are attached so you can put them both up at the same time. I guess I just wanted to make sure that a silnylon fly performed and was as durable as (or reasonably durable compered to) a cheaper, more traditional polyester fly. I have an older half dome 4 that has been through quite a bit, and still remains remarkably waterproof. It is reassuring to hear you have been through some hailstorms with your tents and not had any problems.

So as far as UV degradation, would you be comfortable leaving your tent set up while car camping for a day or two (every few months)?

While we are on the topic, I briefly consider singe walled tents, but it seemed that if there was condensation and you forgot (or were too asleep) to wake up and wipe down the inside of the tent, it would just run down the side and pool in the center. I guess you have never had a problem with this? I speak from a lack of experience as far as that goes, because I have only ever used double walled tents, where I have had few problems with condensation transferring from the inside of the rainfly to inside the body of the tent where I am sleeping.

Thanks again!

"Silnylon" is not coated but impregnated with silicone. There is a definite difference!

I suspect that people who think silnylon misted on them had some small amount of condensation, which flies off the material when raindrops hit it.

Also, not all cottage gear makers source their material from the same maker. Silnylon can vary widely in quality - you'll notice on some websites that they quote a fairly high rating on their tents. The LightHeart tents are made with silnylon rated 1300mm. Most major mfr tents like REI are rated 1500mm, and have that silnylon with PU coating fly you notice (that has to do with flammability; the PU gives the material a little more retardancy to get it within spec). Cottage gear makers aren't restricted by the same regulations and you can get straight up silnylon from them.

My LightHeart tent kept my stuff dry in a rainstorm that wetted out my "waterproof" rain jacket. My MacCat tarp (also silnylon) and the Sublite Sil Tarptent also weathered quite a lot of rain without leaking or misting. Follow the reviews and you'll find some good gear.

Aha, i missed the distinction between coated with silicone vs impregnated. That makes more sense.

You said that silnylon varies widely in quality, do you happen to know anything about tarptent´s silnylon? It seems a lot of people like them.

Sorry to keep on asking the same questions, but would you all say that UV degradation with silnylon isn´t any worse than it is with polyester PU coated rainflies? I just want to make sure I can use a silnylon tent for carcamping and backpacking since I dont have a lot of money to buy two tents...

Thanks for all the help and advice!

Usually tent manufacturers and sailmakers will tell you that polyester lasts longer exposed to UV rays.
This is about months of exposure not days or a few weeks.
as for the difference between the Quarter Dome# and the Scarp, I really don't think that one will last much longer than the other.
Personally I have left a couple of my tents (Rainbow and Contrail) set up during the day , including summer when we get (here in Melbourne) Very High to Extreme UV exposure (it is rated High where you are) for a few weeks (in total) each and I don't see all that much difference .
I have them up because I do rain tests and fiddle with them or some time just to take pictures that users/would be users ask about and then leave them there for a day or three just because.
Franco
# My guess, not a fact

UV exposure does deteriorate tents quit quickly at very high altitude. At more normal altitudes, leaving a tent up during the day is not a big issue. I had a tent years ago that was used for 30+ days on Mt. McKinley. The fly basically disintigrated when I washed it (very gently washed it). The coating just sluffed off. Sil Nylon does not have a coating so instead of sluffing off my show deterioration in other ways, such as seepage leaking. Nylon loses strength when exposed to UV. Nylon climbing ropes that are used a lot (nearly daily) need to be retired after a few years. Again, high altitude in mountaineering plays a role. Other factors are number of falls and wear on the sheath. I would think that a tent fly that flaps in high winds and add high altitude could cause early deterioration. And, as with climbing ropes, keep nylon AWAY from any fuel, oils or hydrocarbon fumes.

All my tents, other than the one I mentioned above, have been replaced due to broken zippers, large tears, and other factors. The zippers are a weak point in any tent. Punctured tent floors have caused me to throw out tents too. Anytime my tent leaks and I cannot fix it, the tent is retired.

Hey OM,
You mentioned being able to get to the condensation. I'm curious what you use to wipe it off? I'm still using a Europa tent, that I dearly love, but it does collect condensation when it gets damp outside.
Thanks,
rionada

it does collect condensation
given the right circumstances , all tents do...
Recently at another forum someone trying to justify his $600 plus tent commented that he never gets condensation inside that("zero condensation").
Oddly just a day or two after, another user call the same tent :"condensation machine" and yes reading forums from all over the place others have made the same remark..

So I get condensation in my tents too, obviously not always and never enough to worry me.
So far the easiest way to wipe condensation off for me has been using a kitchen cloth called Chux.
It's an Aussie thing that looks like this :


The reason I like that is because it is very light, wipes moisture from dry and it dries very fast.
I have tried sponges, natural and synthetic, Sham Wow type stuff, real shamy (chamois) and even microfiber but Chux works better.

Handy Wipes
Yes , same or very similar.
We have 3 types, I like the Super Chux best , thicker and more absorbent.
One is my tent cloth, another my towel and another a kitchen cloth and i usually have a spare one.
BTW, some tips on minimising condensation :
avoid camping near water
look for a tent that has top vents and loads of ventilation options (from bottom and or sides)
(one that you can leave some bits open even in the rain)
the more volume inside the better
the greater the distance between your mouth and the fly the better it is (well up to a point)
try not to sweat inside your bag
camp next to bushes or low trees (if there is no danger of branches falling on you)

I use something similar. "Handi Wipes" multi-use reusable cloths are sold at the supermarket in a package of 6. They can be washed and reused. IMHO they are more absorbent than pack towels and dry a lot faster. Eventually they disintegrate, but I have some that have been through half a dozen trips (and through the washing machine after each) and still look new. Once they start looking fragile, I use them at home for cleaning and toss them once they disintegrate. I take one for a towel, half of one as a washrag and another two in my dog's pack for wiping off wet/muddy dog or condensation in the tent. The 3 1/2 Handi Wipes together weigh a little less than one small MSR pack towel.

Thanks OM and Franco,
I use a SMD Europa. Since I live and camp in the SW - condensation is not normally a problem. But, when I camp near water and/or in a cold rain then condensation can be a real problem. I have definitely woken up to a rain storm - not outside, but inside my tent. I will be taking your advice and trying the handiwipes. If that doesn't work I'll try to track down the chux.
Thanks again

Since I posted that Chux bit I have spotted some rolls of Handy Wipe4s at a local hardware store.
it is almost exactly the same as our thin Chux, just a different brand.