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#168152 - 08/02/12 10:17 AM Gear List/Analysis
PolishTroll Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 4
Hi, all. I'm new to the board, and to lightweight backpacking. I'm hoping some of you can take a look at my gear list (below) and let me know where I can most affordably drop weight.

This list does not include clothes, which is another area where I would appreciate some advice: What are some good three-season clothing options for backpacking in the Northeast?

One other side note: I am mostly backpacking with my girlfriend and dog. My girlfriend is a strong hiker and is able to haul a good bit of gear, but I am trying to dial in my own kit for future solo adventures.

Anyhow, here goes. Thanks in advance for your help!

Base Weight: 20.31 pounds (325 ounces)
REI Crestrail 70 backpack– 78 ounces
Alps Mountaineering Chaos 3 tent – 50 ounces (100 ounces shared)
Montbell UL Spiral #3 sleeping bag – 20 ounces
Swiss Army Spartan knife – 2 ounces
Princeton Tec Remix headlamps(2) – 5.86 ounces
AAA Lithium batteries (6) – 1.8 ounces
North Face Venture jacket – 14.11 ounces
REI Duck’s Rain Cover – 7.6 ounces
Osprey 100 oz. reservoir – 9 ounces
Nalgene 32 oz. bottles (2) – 12.5 ounces
UDAP Bear Spray w/ holster – 7.9 ounces
First aid – 14 ounces
Jetboil Flash stove – 15.25 ounces
Jetboil Jet Power Fuel (2) – 13 ounces
Therm-a-Rest RidgeRest – 14 ounces
Titanium spork – 6 ounces
REI Camp Cup – 13 ounces
BearVault BV500 – 41 ounces

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#168154 - 08/02/12 11:37 AM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Well, you aren't very bad off. In fact, you are really good. But, you can replace almost everything on the list with something lighter. Are these items that you already have? If you just bought them, I would just use them and not worry about it. If you want to replace something, just pick one and find a lighter replacement.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#168157 - 08/02/12 11:52 AM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
What really helps in weight analysis is to have a truly complete list, absolutely every item carried; giving base weight to the hundredth of a pound is best done in that context I think.

Your pack weighs 78 oz; my current pack weighs 38 oz, and it's not the lightest one I've backpacked with. I'm a fan of ULA packs, you might look at those, but after you've reduced weight and volume of other items. It really depends on just how aggressively light (or ultralight) you want to get, how much money and what trade-offs you're willing to make to get there.

Why two headlamps and six batteries? If you want a backup light source, I'd suggest a very very light pinch-type LED light.

Your jacket at 14 oz is likely a nice one, but I carry a 7 oz jacket (FWIW, my particular jacket is an Outdoor Research Helium, men's size large).

7.6 oz for a rain cover --- is that a pack cover? Heavy for that, I'd rather just line my pack with a contractor bag (and might anyway) rather than eat almost a half pound.

Drop the bear spray unless hiking in grizzly country. Drop the bear canister. Unless you're hiking in a place they're required. Way too much weight for those unless in place they're really needed. I've carried both, but in my limited experience in the NE (hiking the AT) I can't think of where I would want either.

Stove: depending on what kinds of trips and lengths of trips you take, I'd look at an alcohol stove and just the amount of fuel you need to cook. This of course also depends on your cooking style. If you do a big fry up for breakfast and gourmet dinners, I can't address that. If you eat a cold breakfast and just heat water to rehydrate something for dinner, and alcohol stove could save you significant weight on trips of just a few days.

13 oz is a lot for a camp cup. I personally don't carry a camp cup; a 20 oz gatorade bottle serves as both water bottle and "cup" for me. Different approaches here, I'm sure a titanium cup would be lighter if you just have to have a hot drink. OR --- to accompany an alcohol stove, get a titanium cup that doubles as your cook pot, if you're only heating water.

I suspect that a complete list might yield additional thoughts --- a list that included things like first aid kit, tooth care, sun screen, etc etc.

In terms of clothing: "some good clothing options" is too wide open for me at least to be inclined to respond. Perhaps work this item by item as each clothing item can generate a lot of ideas and dissent. The bottom line though is that when going lighter, most people carry too many clothing items, not just too heavy and/or sub-optimal performance choices.

_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#168160 - 08/02/12 12:34 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I am going to assume that you have yet to purchase your gear. If you already have your stuff then I will second ME's advice and just replace with lighter gear when the money comes along.

Your pack is heavy at nearly five pounds. You can get several internal frame packs that are of about the same capacity that are two or more pounds lighter. Look at the GoLite Quest as an example. You can also get large, semi-frameless packs such as the Six Moons Starlite that weigh less than two pounds and are adequate for weights up to about 20-25 lb. You can get a lighter pack for less than $200

There are numerous two person tents available at around three pounds total. Check out the offerings of Tarptent or Six Moons Designs. Or, consider using a tarp for a total weight of probably less than two pounds.

The Montbell sleeping bag is a good choice for mild conditions.

You can take a Victorinox Classic knife at 0.8 oz and save an ounce here.

Unless you plan on doing a lot of night hiking, your can get one of several headlamps that weigh less than two ounces complete with batteries. One example is the Petzel E-light-there are others also.

The North Face Venture is OK but if it is your only jacket, it can sweat up inside pretty quickly if you are hiking hard in cold weather. My preference is to use a wind shell (3-4 oz) for when it is cold and not raining and to use something like a DriDucks or an O2 original hooded jacket when it rains. Both of the above rain jackets weigh in the 5-6 oz range and you can layer them over the wind shell for a bit more warmth if necessary.

The rain cover is not necessary and besides, they won't keep the inside of your pack dry. Better to use a trash bag or trash compactor bag (about 2 oz) to line your pack.

Use a Platypus 2 liter collapsible water bottle for camp water. 2 oz.

Use recycled 1 liter pop bottles or Gator-Aide bottles instead of the Nalgene. Pop bottles weigh about 1.5-2 oz each and they are cheap.

I would check locally but I don't think you need the bear spray. I hike a lot in the California Sierra where there are smart and aggressive bears and have never needed spray.

Your first aid kit is way too heavy. You can put together an adequate FAK that weighs 2-3 oz if you are prepared to use part of your kit as first aid supplies if needed. This is an entirely separate subject though; do a search of this forum for FAK lists.

To me, the Jetboil is way too heavy and not enough more fuel-efficient to justify the weight. Look at the small canister stoves such as the Snow Peak Giga at 3 oz.

Consider trimming the Ridgerest to a smaller size (20" x 60") to save weight. You can use your pack under your legs.

You can get a lexan Spork that works just as well as the titanium version and it only weighs an ounce.

Replace your REI Camp cup with a lighter item such as the GSI Cascadian polypropylene 12 fl oz cup. If you saw off the handle, it weighs 1.6 oz.

Check to see whether the BV 500 is really necessary. I don't recall too many hikers in the NE who use anything other than hanging but I could easily be wrong. National Park bears are the primary evildoers so you might want a BV if you go to Great Smokies NP but not where bears are hunted.



_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#168164 - 08/02/12 03:55 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
A 6 oz titanium spork???????

Or is that steel? whistle
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#168165 - 08/02/12 04:12 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: lori]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Maybe it's 3 feet long, and can hold 2 quarts of liquid in the business end? smile

My guess is it's .6 oz, not 6 oz.

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#168171 - 08/02/12 07:34 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
The others here have done a pretty good job of critiquing the detailed items on your list, so I won't go there. If you've already bought some of these, I hope you can return them (you can if you got them at REI or EMS).

If you haven't read the articles and studied the gear lists (particularly the "27-pound, 7-day list) on the home page of this site, you might want to do that now. (I developed my own list based on that one.) Several of our members have their own gear lists; for the links check posts by "phat" and "balzaccom."

BTW, that Six Moon Designs Starlite pack mentioneds, if you're interested, should be bought with the "optional" (mandatory, IMHO) stays. It will carry up to 35 lbs. with the stays. I have its now discontinued "little brother," the SMD Comet and once carried 37 lbs. in that (my shoulders, back and hips were fine although my knees and feet were screaming). For me, the Starlite is too big and too large capacity, but it might work for you. Do try to keep your pack under 4 lbs. if you can, although the most important item is fit, fit, fit. Pack fit is as individual as shoe fit, so make sure you have the pack that is the most comfortable for you with the gear you'll be carrying. That might be the pack you're considering, but you won't know until you've gathered all year gear, loaded the pack and hiked around with it for a while.

Re clothing, several thinner layers are better than one thick one--you need to regulate your body temperature to the activity you are doing, so you neither sweat nor get chilled. This is technically known as "thermoregulation" and is something you can practice when exercising outdoors around home. When you're actively hiking uphill, you may not want more than a thin baselayer top and a windshirt, plus cap and gloves, even in below-freezing weather. You don't want to sweat because once you stop the sweat will quickly chill you. You'll want to put on a nice warm puffy layer as soon as you you stop to rest or camp, even though you still feel warm from hiking--don't let yourself get cold before you put it on. Be sure to avoid cotton; it absorbs lots of moisture easily and dries slowly (what's the last thing out of the dryer at home?). Because of this it becomes a sure ticket to hypothermia even in moderately cool wet weather.

Check the prevailing temps in the area in which you'll be backpacking and plan your insulating gear (clothing, sleeping bag, sleeping pad) accordingly. The average temps are only one guide; take a look at the record lows and plan for something maybe 10*F warmer.

You mentioned the Northeast; I have read that in certain areas of the Adirondacks (where bear canisters are required), the Bear Vault is not allowed because at least one bear (smarter than your average bear laugh ) has figured out how to open it. Outside the Adirondacks, I doubt you'll need the canister. Most of us use them only where they're required because of their weight. It is a good idea to hang your food at night where canisters are not required, since you don't want any bears (or other varmints) to get the idea that backpackers = food!



Edited by OregonMouse (08/02/12 07:59 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#168516 - 08/16/12 09:04 AM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
PolishTroll Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 4
Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. I stand to learn a lot here.

After reviewing your advice, I made some adjustments to my gear list:

- Removed one headlamp, acquired pinch-style LED as backup, replaced batteries in primary headlamp with lithiums

- Removed pouch for rain cover and decided only to take rain cover when the forecast calls for it

- Replaced two Nalgene bottles with Gatorade bottles

- Cut first-aid weight for two from 14 oz. to 6 oz.

- Replaced REI cup (13 oz.) with GSI Cascadian Cup (1.7 oz.)

- Repackaged dehydrated meals and re-evaluated food supply, reducing volume to an amount that fits in the smaller Bear Vault (NOTE: Although the group advised that we ditch the Bear Vault and use a bag instead, we decided to err on the side of caution -- for our personal safety, that of other animals, that of our food supply -- and keep the Bear Vault in our kit. We are open to trying the bag method, but not at this time.)

- Removed the bear spray

- Now, for the tricky one: I ordered a GoLite Quest 65L for $99, hoping it would not only cut more than a pound from my load but also serve as an upgrade to the REI Crestrail. It arrived yesterday, and after packing it with my gear, I must say that the Quest, in my opinion, is the product of a poorly thought-out design. For one, the backpad does not sufficiently cover the aluminum piece in the center of the frame. There is no easy way to haul a roll-up foam pad such as the RidgeRest. And while the external stretch pocket adequately stored my pack cover and rain gear, these pieces were not easily accessible due to the strange lid strap that must be threaded through the external pocket's large eyeholes. I wanted to love the pack, but instead found it to be uncomfortable and tedious to pack and unpack. That said, I would love to hear some other suggestions for bags that might better suit my needs.

I have not had time to tally the new weight with these cuts, but I wanted to put this out there again to see what you think, especially about the bag.

Thanks again!

Rich


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#168521 - 08/16/12 01:15 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Apparently GoLite has changed the Quest since I purchased mine. The Quest that I use was made in 2007 and has a plastic frame sheet between the back padding and the metal stays. I find it very comfortable but it is also getting pretty badly worn. I am glad to hear your report on the newer Quest; I probably won't get another.

I have looked through the listings of different internal frame packs and have found a lot of them in the 60 liter range but most of them seem to weigh 4+ pounds.

You might want to consider the various packs that use a sleeping pad as part of the load transfer system; most of them come with metal stays that add to the load capacity but only add 3-4 oz. One I can personally recommend is the Six Moons Starlite but there are others such as the Gossamer Gear Mariposa or Gorilla. All of these packs are less than 2 pounds with stays and will handle a maximum of perhaps 35 pounds total with some comfort; they are much better with lighter loads (as is any pack). There is a learning curve with these packs and the learning tends to be personal with a lot of ah-ha! moments.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#168525 - 08/16/12 02:26 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: Pika]
PolishTroll Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 4
Thanks, Pika. I have a roll-up RidgeRest, not one of the folding models. How would it function as part of the load tranfer system in the Starlite, for instance? Would I fold it in half and place it in an internal sleeve? Would I have to cut it in two? I'm curious to learn more about this approach.

Thanks again!

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#168529 - 08/16/12 06:10 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
What I have done in the past with several different closed-cell pads is to cut them nearly through (leave about 1/8" uncut) and into sections of the appropriate width and then duct tape the pieces back together to form a hinged, continuous pad. Only one side needs to be taped but you need to cut and tape alternate sides or it can be hard to fold it up. Your weight on the tape seems to "tighten" up the grip of the tape over time. Ray Jardine sells a kit with instructions for making a fold up foam pad. I don't know anything about it but it may be worth a look. Here is a link to the kit: http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Sleeping-Pad-Kit/index.htm
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#168531 - 08/16/12 07:36 PM Re: Gear List/Analysis [Re: PolishTroll]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
PolishTroll, this might help clarify things a little. My Sixmoons has the same construction Pika is talking about; the pad fits into a pocket that serves as part of the load carrying structure. The pocket is unzipped in the photo and the pad is the blue thing.



When I pull the pad out, it looks like this;



or 5 rectangular segments basically held together with duct tape. This allows it to accordion into a 2"+ rectangular block.



I picked up my pack with a removable "hoop" stay for extra stability if needed. I can easily carry 35 pounds comfortably with this pack and although it's only rated for 35 lbs max, I carried well over that reasonably comfortably. With this 1 lb pad, this pack worked for me right from the start. But, I looked into backpacks for a year before purchasing the thing. I knew specifically what I wanted in an additional pack.

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