Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#161131 - 01/25/12 08:51 PM Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
Input needed. I need a better bag and need advice on two I think look like good deals from Campmor. See below:

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___42558
or
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43171

The Mtn Hardware is about 8oz lighter but not quite as warm.
The Kelty is $30 cheaper and 5 degrees warmer but heavier!

The Kelty has down insulation, not sure the advantage of down over the Thermic Micro insulation in the Mtn Hardware.

Advice? Also, my budget is $150 shipped so if you know of a better deal somewhere else let me know! Thanks!

oops...found a few more: http://www.rei.com/product/833127/marmot-always-summer-45-sleeping-bag-long-2011-closeout

http://www.rei.com/product/832215/kelty-light-year-40-down-sleeping-bag-long-right-2011-overstock


Edited by Cranman (01/25/12 09:09 PM)

Top
#161143 - 01/25/12 11:33 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
immortal.ben Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 91
Loc: Arizona
For the extra half pound you get a bag with 600 fill down. Definitely worth it in my book.
_________________________
Life is a verb.

Top
#161145 - 01/26/12 12:09 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: immortal.ben]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By immortal.ben
For the extra half pound you get a bag with 600 fill down. Definitely worth it in my book.


IMO, I don't agree..

600 fill down is nice if the fact that it gives more loft for the weight than, say, 450 or 500 fill down, actually translates to *less weight*.

I would not choose a *heavier* bag because it was down, or a higher fill number.

(I might chose it for more loft, better fit, or real warmth)

the synth bag is interesting because it is so light. however I am slightly suspect of the rating - see if you can find someone
here with some experience in it.

My only real reccomendtion? buy the kelty and the marmot at REI, try them on, and return the one that doesn't fit as good. For me fit is real important - how it feels.

I'm at a loss to give you a better recommendation however because

1) I don't think I own a 45F rated bag.. my lightest sleeping bag is -3C rated. (so like, 25-28 F)
2) Most of my bags are twice or more your budget smile I spend as much as I can tolerated here, and I'll cheap out everywhere else.


_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top
#161147 - 01/26/12 12:32 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: phat]
immortal.ben Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 91
Loc: Arizona
I may have not made myself clear. I do not recommend the down bag because it is heavier. I recommend it because it is 600 fill down. A down bag of lower fill rating would put it on par with the synth bag, in my book.

The down (taken care of properly) will likely far outlast the synthetic fill bag. It will also likely be warmer than the synth bag as well, I just didn't put that part in my other post.

I have a Kelty synth bag rated for 45 degrees and have no complaints about it, save that it is not down. I just could not afford a down bag at the time. It weighs 2lb 2oz IN its stuff sack and packs down pretty small for a synthetic.

The advice about trying both bags to see which fits better is pretty good. For me, I tend to look for the best compromise between weight and roominess, as I am 6'1" and 225lbs. I dislike small bags.
_________________________
Life is a verb.

Top
#161151 - 01/26/12 02:00 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: immortal.ben]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Warm, light, cheap, pick two. That's how it works. There is nothing inherently wrong with a synthetic fill bag and in some circumstances, they are better than down. If I was kayaking or canoeing in marginal conditions, a synthetic fill bag would be my choice. I have a TNF Cat's Meow, a bag rated at 20F. Mine is old (25 years or so) so I doubt seriously it would be warm at 20F and if I recall right, it wasn't warm at 20F when new. But, for what it is supposed to be-a relatively warm bag at a decent price, it is a good buy. On the other hand, my down bag of similar vintage is good to around 20F, which is close to its rating (-5C, which is +23F), but cost twice as much.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#161152 - 01/26/12 06:57 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: TomD]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
Good input guys, thanks.

I like the idea of ordering two and picking the best fit, then return one. Makes alot of sense, the $10 for return shipping would be well worth the ability to try several on for size!

Top
#161189 - 01/26/12 03:51 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Check to see if any of those bags are EN13537 rated. I believe the newer Kelty bags now use these ratings. Most makes of inexpensive bags do not use these ratings. Note, however, that there are several different rating levels--make sure you get the right one: Deciphering EN13537 temperature ratings. Otherwise, assume the advertised rating is 5-10*F colder than what it really is!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#161250 - 01/27/12 12:53 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
Ilivas Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 6
There are several REI very close to you. You can go to the store, and try the bags on.

Top
#161267 - 01/27/12 10:39 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I had to comment - the Always Summer at the link you have is nine dollars more than I spent on the Never Summer, a 0 degree bag with a lot more down in it! If you haven't tried Sierra Trading Post and got on the Deal Flyer, you may be missing some excellent deals on bags.

Too many people have told me their Mountain Hardwear bags aren't warm enough. I'd go with the Marmot or Kelty - both are EN rated about the same, 50F comfort rating, so I'd go with the lighter of the two. Or, go with the Campmor branded 20F bag, which is more realistically a 30F bag in practice, and spend about the same as you would on that Kelty. It's always easier to open zippers or use the bag as a quilt than to make a cold bag a warmer one.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#161268 - 01/27/12 10:49 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: lori]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
+/- 5 degrees means nothing with respect to sleeping bag ratings. In fact the "ratings" are very subjective. I have a "45-degree" synthetic bag that I seldom use because I sleep cold and cannot even use it in 55-degree conditions. I only use it for coastal hiking where temps stay about 60 degrees day and night. If you have to take extra clothing to sleep in then there really is no weight savings in getting a 45-deg bag. I am with Lori- find a 30-degree bag of the same weight. As for budget- tighten your belt in other areas- when I was a poor college student I invested in top-dollar gear by eating beans and rice for a month, giving myself haircuts, not driving a car, and living in a dump. It is all a matter of priorites.

Top
#161276 - 01/27/12 11:43 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: wandering_daisy]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
I'll have to check into the Sierra Trading Post. Always looking for good deals.

I ended up ordering a Kelty 20F and Mtn Hardware 32F bag from Campmor, and I'll try both and pick my favorite. I think the Kelty was 3.2lbs and it's uses down insulation, and the Mtn hardware bag was 2.2lbs and used synthetic insulation. I think the Kelty was 129 and the Mtn hardware was 149.

Thanks for all the input, the advice to order 2 and pick the best fit helped me decide (well at least narrow it down to 2!)

Top
#161279 - 01/27/12 12:03 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I just got a Kelty Light Year 20º and I like it a lot, though I've only used it a few nights so far. I think it's "comfort" rating is 32º, and it's comfortable for me at that temp.

But I only paid $132 with shipping. Mine is last years model and it has 600 fill-power down, the new one has 650 fill-power down and it's over $200 now.

I suggest you search around to see if can find one of last years for the same or less than the price as I paid. You're still within budget if you do, and you'll be good for a few more degrees of coldness.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43167

I'm sure it's heavier that the one you're looking at, but the added weight is all down.

One thing I'll note is that I'm 5'9"/140bs and the bag fits me about perfect. I don't think it'd work well if your taller or weigh more, in that case you might want a larger bag.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#161350 - 01/28/12 08:43 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: billstephenson]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
Bill- Yeah that is one (the Kelty light year) of the two bags I have coming, but mine is a long length which adds 4oz. No worries, I can't stand to be cramped and I am 6'1 so the long works much better. I'm pretty sure it was $129 and free shipping. I feel like I will like the Kelty better, but the Mtn Hardware is a full pound lighter, although it is a 32f bag. I do have Army poncho liner that I love, that I think I could use with the Mtn hardware that should get it on par with the Kelty as far as warmth. I tried to weigh the poncho liner on our inaccurate home scale and I know it's well under a pound. The in warmer months I leave the blanket at home.


Edited by Cranman (01/28/12 08:43 AM)

Top
#161358 - 01/28/12 10:50 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The fact that the MH bag is lighter would worry me. Synthetic is generally the heavy option. I bet it's not a 32F bag.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#161372 - 01/28/12 04:05 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: lori]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
A Western Mountaineering bag (Alpenlite) comparable to the Kelty (20F) is more than a pound lighter, has less fill, but uses 850 down and costs $480. WM also has another 20F bag the Ultralite that is narrower and costs $435. In other words for 4 times the cost, you get what many consider the best. Proves my point-light, warm, cheap-pick two.


Edited by TomD (01/28/12 06:28 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#161373 - 01/28/12 04:39 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: TomD]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By TomD
Proves my point-light, warm, cheap-pick two.


Although to the credit of kelty, REI, MEC and a few others, there are a few midrange lighter weight down bags which offer at least some sort of middle ground. it wasn't that long ago it seemed to me that it was either something in the price, weight and quality of the WM bags (which is very good) or really really heavy and bulky. Yes, those kelty and REI bags are not as light as a WM bag, but they are not *that* heavy either. It used to be a lot more difficult to get a lighter weight bag.


_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top
#161374 - 01/28/12 04:50 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: TomD]
mmendell Offline
member

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Western Iowa
If there is one item you're going to spend some money on, this is it IMHO.

I own an WM Alpinlite, and it is a great bag.

I justify the cost this way (to my wife of 25 years and my dad of nearly 25 more). If I drove to some lovely place and spent a week in a hotel, I would pay more in hotel bills in that one week than I paid for that bag. The weeks I've spent in my Alpinlite have been paid for many times over.

Had I bought something else along the way, I still would have ended up with this bag. I saved money by buying it when I did.

I am, without doubt, the worlds finest at spending someone else's money.


Top
#161375 - 01/28/12 05:14 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: mmendell]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
another way to look at it, maybe.

I notice (with my large hiking group) that there are those who go once or twice a year, backpacking. They don't use the bag a lot. They don't go more than a night, and they don't do high miles per day.

I on the other hand started to really hike a lot and started to volunteer for SAR - if that isn't motivation to get the pack skinny and light, I don't know what is - keeping up with that deputy means being light on your feet. I backpack every month, at least one night, often 2-7 nights. Depends on what's going on with training and how many searches, and what the hiking group is doing. I use my gear a lot, for different things.

Spending that initial $500 on two high fill power down quilts was the best thing I could have done - they have over and over proved to keep me comfy and warm in all the 3 season travels I've had, and each weighs 1 lb 6 oz. Each packs down to a small ball and they fit side by side in the bottom of my 40 liter pack. When hammocking I take both. When ground sleeping I take one and add in a NeoAir.

I can estimate that I will have years of ongoing use of them, and so they really were the cheapest option I could get. If I were going out a couple nights a year, picking up something heavier and cheaper (a synthetic would be cheapest) would have meant carrying more weight, probably a larger pack, but if I managed to find a cheap option that was actually also warm? It might last a good long time simply because I wasn't stuffing and restuffing it every other week. Keeping a cheap synthetic uncompressed can extend its lifespan if it's not used a lot.

Last year I borrowed a 0 degree North Face synthetic from someone for an anticipated winter trip. It had burn marks on the shell but the guy still used it because it still worked reliably for him as a winter bag. I literally could not get the thing in my pack! I couldn't get it in a compression sack! My 55 liter pack bag was full nearly to the top with this bag. Since I did not end up going on the trip I borrowed it for, that did not matter a whole lot. This year, with a bit of a gear scholarship from SAR, I was able to get a down 0 degree - a Marmot 650 fp bag. It fits in the same pack with room to spare for the other winter gear and clothes. A 800+ fp bag would have left me more room still, I'm sure, but it's a radical difference, and I don't mind the 4 lb weight of the bag at all, given that the synthetic was 2 lbs heavier... A 4 lb bag for winter for me is fine. I won't use it that much, and hopefully will get rides from the helicopter or the snow cat at least part of the time.... SAR being SAR. And if I do go recreational in winter, there's always a pulk!
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#161376 - 01/28/12 05:37 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: lori]
mmendell Offline
member

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Western Iowa
Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but...

I do so want to move to a quilt, but spent a tremendously cold night in the Canyonlands a couple of springs ago freezing my rear-end off in a JRB No-sniveler and bivy. I was on a Neoair AND closed-cell. Granted, the ground was cold, but the problem was drafts, and perhaps the quilt just wasn't lofty enough? Walked back to the car for my Alpinlite the next morning and was fine for the rest of the trip.

Been looking at a Nunatak 20degree at 20oz and tempted to try again with a bit beefier quilt. Pricey, but would love to carve that 12 oz and space out of my pack!

Top
#161378 - 01/28/12 05:57 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: mmendell]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
What you're missing there is what the temps were that night and which version of that quilt you had. Also whether the quilt was actually the right size for you - people of a heftier build can have issues with regular size quilts wrapping around them well enough. JRB makes the larger quilts and also quilt wings that help you tuck in more firmly.

I have three season Hudson Rivers, have slept down to the mid20F temps in them reliably without issues, and without a bivy. But I'm usually in a hammock or a tent of some kind, and the quilt will wrap around me without quilt wings.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#161379 - 01/28/12 06:00 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: lori]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
You are absolutely right. Once you reach the tipping point and know you will spend lots of nights out of doors, pay whatever it takes to get a warm, light bag. It hurts when you cough up the dough, but the return is many nights of comfort. My first expensive bag lasted me for twenty years and even then, it was stolen; it didn't wear out. I still use its replacement, although I have supplemented it with one of those nice REI bags that indeed seem to be a good value, well balanced between weight and warmth.

Top
#161382 - 01/28/12 07:02 PM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: phat]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Originally Posted By phat
Originally Posted By TomD
Proves my point-light, warm, cheap-pick two.


Although to the credit of kelty, REI, MEC and a few others, there are a few midrange lighter weight down bags which offer at least some sort of middle ground. it wasn't that long ago it seemed to me that it was either something in the price, weight and quality of the WM bags (which is very good) or really really heavy and bulky. Yes, those kelty and REI bags are not as light as a WM bag, but they are not *that* heavy either. It used to be a lot more difficult to get a lighter weight bag.




I agree. The technology is getting better and prices are either stable or actually less. Example, I have a Marmot Alba (-10F) made in 1992, original price, $400. Just got it used and hard to believe, the owner had the original tag for it. In today's dollars, that would be about $613 as of 2010. That bag is 650 down and just a microfiber shell. A Marmot Col Membrain, rated to -20F, with a breatheable, waterproof shell, 850 down lists for $639, so for an extra $26 in adjusted dollars, a better bag. The Lithium, rated only to 0F is $479. In real dollars, I saved about $3-400 by buying my bag used, depending on what you compare it to.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#161407 - 01/29/12 07:49 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Cranman]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
I've been happy with my Mountain Hardware Lamina 45 bags.

They have been true to rating and kept by 6 year old and I warm when we took them out in conditions that were in the low to mid 40s on the VA section of the AT.

Sorry, I wrote something longer, but then the website reset or something and lost my post twice!!

Top
#161409 - 01/29/12 08:40 AM Re: Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags [Re: Steadman]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
Thanks for the perspective guys, all advice is appreciated. I may not have mentioned it before, but besides myself I have two sons I'm trying to gear up too, so any $$ decisions have a X3 multiplier grin My old bag is close to 5lbs (ugh) and very bulky, so if I can shed 2 pounds it will be a big improvement for the near term. Looking forward to Tuesday when UPS comes for a visit, I love to open packages!

Top
#161554 - 01/31/12 06:59 PM Re: It's down to two...need a bit more advice! [Re: Cranman]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
Recieved the Kelty Light Year 20F and Mtn Hardware 32F bags today. Tried both and think I like the Kelty better. Sure it's 1 lb heavier, but seems better made and more comfortable overall. I think I would go with the Mtn Hardware bag except the zipppers (2) only go about 1/3 way down on each side, and got stuck several times already.

I wanted to like the Mtn Hardware better though. Another thing, there was not much chance of getting it in the included stuff sack!

Last question, will a 20F bag be too hot? I tend to sleep hot, but I know once temps go down at night most of us like to stay warm...what's a typical comfortable range for a 20F bag?

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
MSR Recall
by balzaccom
02/24/24 11:13 AM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Yosemite Winter Rangers
by balzaccom
12/21/23 09:35 AM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 55 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum