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#127084 - 01/21/10 10:59 AM First time gear help
skinnyskier2112 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Hi all! First post and first time on these forums actually. Based on what I've read so far it seems like you all have a lot to offer!

I've been an outdoors enthusiast for a number of years now mainly through hiking and xc skiing. I'm looking to get into backpacking and camping. I've been researching gear and have been a bit daunted by all the options and some of the price tags associated with the gear. So I'm looking for some advice on how to get started with backpack camping and maybe some reviews on starters gear. I found this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Columbus-Bivy-Tent-S...=item2ea67da454

I was tempted to buy this right away because of the price but wanted to hear some opinions from others or a review from someone who has tried this setup. I searched the internet for reviews but have found none which makes me suspicious. Any help would be great!

***edit*** On further investigation it appears this is probably the wrong forum for this post. If a mod could move this to the beginners forum that would be great!


Edited by skinnyskier2112 (01/21/10 11:02 AM)

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#127087 - 01/21/10 11:17 AM Re: First time gear help [Re: skinnyskier2112]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I'd probably pass on it. The tent weighs 6+ pounds by itself; the seller calls this "lightweight," but most of us on these forums don't hit much over 6 pounds combined for sleeping bag, tent, and pack - so my guess is the pack will weigh a good 5 pounds, and the sleeping bag will weigh at least 3.

It's not expensive, for sure - which normally leads to questions about quality. When the rain barely slows down as it comes through the rainfly or soaks up through the floor, and your sleeping bag is completely wet, and the pack has rubbed your shoulders and hips raw, "I saved $500 by not getting name brand" isn't much comfort.

I've never heard of this brand. That doesn't mean it's not good quality, it's just that it doesn't seem to have made any inroads into the "serious" backpacking world (whatever that is.)

You'd be better off to spend a little more money on some good quality gear. You don't have to break the bank - there are some great values out there from brands like REI, Kelty, Sierra Designs, and others that are top-notch quality, just not horribly light. (But lighter than the stuff you found on eBay.)

When it comes to gear, you can choose two: lightweight, high quality, low cost.

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#127091 - 01/21/10 11:35 AM Re: First time gear help [Re: Glenn]
skinnyskier2112 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Thanks for the response Glenn. Lightweight backpacking/camping is particularly intriguing to me because I have pipedreams of maybe someday doing some long distance hiking. Obviously I need to start much smaller at first but ultimately that is what i'm working towards.

What would be a reasonable budget for a beginner assuming I have nothing other than proper clothing?

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#127095 - 01/21/10 01:13 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: skinnyskier2112]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
That's an excellent question. Hmmmm...let's see:

Pack $150
Tent 200
Sleeping pad 75
Sleeping bag 150
Canister stove and pots 100
Water filter and bottles 75

Total $750

This will trigger a huge number of replies, split equally between those who say I'm $500 too high and $500 too low. I didn't go look up any exact prices, but for high-quality, not-too-heavy gear, like the brands in my previous post, this should be about right in total. The pack may be a little less, and the sleeping bag a little more, etc. My estimating errors will probably leave enough in the budget for all the little stuff like compasses, first aid kits, pocketknife, and such.

You can save some money by shopping the gear-for-sale part of these forums. People here are pretty honest about the condition of the gear they're selling, and will usually tell you why they're getting rid of it. (Often, it's because there's something new and shiny they want.)

A lot of the clothing you already have, like longjohns, windbreakers, gloves, and hats, will be very functional for backpacking. You may or may not need a pair of boots or trail shoes; $100 - $150 will get you into something pretty good.

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#127101 - 01/21/10 02:24 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: Glenn]
Eugene Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 60
Loc: San Diego, CA
That system looks nice, but I wouldn't buy it without seeing some real reviews or seeing it myself.

You can get around $500 if you shop around for deals in closeout/clearance/sale sections and also for people selling used gear.
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#127109 - 01/21/10 03:41 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: Glenn]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Originally Posted By Glenn
This will trigger a huge number of replies,


Absolutely! But you are in the ballpark. I would like to point out the matter of priorities - you obviously need a good sleeping bag and a comfortable pack of proper capacity, and those are items that probably will require a substantial outlay. Stove and cook kit are a different matter. A lot of folks get on fine with home made alcohol stoves and beer can pots - expenditure is negligible. You can do fine with an inexpensive tarp, provided you avoid extreme weather. I had almost ten years of extensive outdoor, overnight experience before I purchased my first tent. Many really good pads are pricey, but a cheap blue foam pad still does fine for me. YMMV. There are acceptable alternatives to a water filter that require much less initial outlay.

Make sure that your first trips are short, in good weather, and you can work your way down to the deep end of the pool as you gather experience.

Eventually you will spend far more than $750....

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#127110 - 01/21/10 03:45 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: skinnyskier2112]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Where are you going, and when? You need different gear for different environments and/or seasons.

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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#127114 - 01/21/10 04:23 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: oldranger]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Good points, oldranger. I didn't want to complicate my original reply too much, so I stuck to the "middle of the road" gear selection, hoping folks like you would point out all the perfectly viable alternatives like alcohol stoves and tarps.

I particularly appreciated you adding the "change as you go" feature: start with good basics, then replace the "starter" gear like tarps and blue foam pads later - if you want or need to. (If you don't, you win big-time.)

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#127116 - 01/21/10 05:21 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: oldranger]
Eugene Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 60
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By oldranger
Many really good pads are pricey, but a cheap blue foam pad still does fine for me. YMMV.

I was very pleased to find one of the warmest pads for $40. It saved a couple lbs from my old inflatable pad too.

Originally Posted By oldranger
There are acceptable alternatives to a water filter that require much less initial outlay.


Yep, there's pills and boiling. Sometimes you can find a great deal on pills from a hiker that no longer needs them, like this guy:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57942
_________________________
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#127117 - 01/21/10 05:36 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: Eugene]
skinnyskier2112 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Thanks again for the great replys. I'm starting to get a much better idea of what I'm getting myself into here! As for where I may be going, I am planning on starting with day hikes with 1 night camps in not so remote areas. Ala maybe a local minnesota state park. I may do these as early as march assuming I get a sleeping system that is up for the Minnesota cold.


Assuming my initial trips go well I may try something more adventurous in the summer like multi day section hikes of the Superior, Border, or Kekebac trails. Possibly a boundary waters backcountry trip.

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#127126 - 01/21/10 08:14 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: skinnyskier2112]
Tangohkr Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 57
Loc: Arizona
When I started out I bought a Coleman Inyo II it weighs 4lbs. Still have that tent it is bomb proof. It was $100 when I bought it and I used that tent for 4-5 years steadily and then moved to a lighter tent (and more $$). Go to backpacking websites and read the reviews, they tell the good the bad and the ugly. And there is a massive amount of experience and knowledge here. Then google shop what you've found to find a good price. I use the heck out of expensive sites for the gear reviews and then if I find a better price I buy it where I found the better price. Good luck.


Edited by Tango (01/21/10 08:15 PM)
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Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Helen Keller

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#127170 - 01/22/10 02:17 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: Tangohkr]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
Run, don't walk down to Midwest Mountaineering. They have some Western Mountaineering sleeping bags on sale for 20 percent off. Unheard of! A twenty degree bag should be good for early Srping and late fall here in MN and can be opened up as a quilt for warmer weather. If you are really serious, drop the bucks for one of these bags. If you aren't sure yet, go for something like the Campmore 20 degre down bag.
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If I wouldn't eat it at home, why would I want to eat it on the trail?

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#127172 - 01/22/10 03:10 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: thecook]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I second the vote for Western Mountaineering - wonderful bags, worth every penny. Particularly the "-Lite" series (Megalite, Versalite, etc.) After I got one, I never looked back and never regretted the decision.

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#127182 - 01/22/10 05:51 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: skinnyskier2112]
skippy Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 129
Loc: CO
Some might disagree with me but my vote is spend more or research more for a quality shelter. I view this as more important than a nice pack or sleeping bag. I remember my first backpacking trip went off without a hitch, number 2 trip....not so much. It rained constantly for 4 days and an off brand leaky %$&*# tent made our sleeping bags into sponges. Down would have been a disaster and synthetic was nearly as bad (we froze). A good sleeping bag is junk unless you can keep it dry.

My order of importance moneywise:

1) quality shelter
2) sleeping bag
3) backpack

And good luck and do the research before you buy. I wasted so much money when I started out on junky and unnecessary gear.

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#127185 - 01/22/10 06:37 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: Glenn]
frediver Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 114
Pack $150
Tent 200
Sleeping pad 75
Sleeping bag 150
Canister stove and pots 100
Water filter and bottles 75
Ok I have not read all the entries in this thread yet but yes I think this price is on the high side. At the normal retail level it is close however.
Pack $150.00 easy- Name brand outlet.
Tent $200.00 high " " "
Sleeping pad, Tough to say, I dont like thermarest, I use an airmat with z-rest.
Sleeping bag $150.00 Steep N Cheap had Sierra Designs for <$70.00
Stove, Peak one Canister $25.00 + 13oz. coffee can= free
Water filter, REI Sawyer< $40.00 + one platypus gravity bad and a Big Mouth soda bottle. Start with Tonic water and lime Add Gin=yum. Then you have the canteen when it is empty.

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#127207 - 01/23/10 02:15 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: frediver]
Dragon Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
I've been living and breathing lightweight/ultra-lightweight for several years and still regularly learn more. It will be a process for you. Buy a few things, use them, sell some, buy more. Many of us are called "gear junkies" for a reason. There are several of us in the MN area.

I've acquired most of my used gear on the backpackinglight.com "gear swap" forum. There's lots of great gear there that isn't the "latest, greatest, lightest" with plenty of useful life left.

This site has a gear for sale forum as well. Take a little time to read and watch the forums, and you'll get most of what you need to get started. As you gain experience, you can replace some of your earlier gear by selling it with different gear (used or new).

I've acquired 5 tents in maybe 3 years, and still own and like 4 of them. I liked the 2 man Squall Tarptent I don't have anymore alot, but traded to another lightweight guy in St. Louis Park for his one man Contrail Tarptent.

I started with a $10 REI rental sleeping bag from their garage sale a few years ago, and now have, I believe, 6 bags. The latest one is a used down bag on its way to me from Germany. My Western Mountaineering Megalite bag is still brand new, never used. If I don't use it, I can get all my money that I paid for it back. I've only sold one bag (again, that I liked alot) to a guy whose son had his pack stolen. I've gotten great synthetic bags for no more than $50. The best 3 season used down bags can easily go for $200-$280.

All of my backpacks have cost me under $60—both new and used. I expect I have at least 5 (again, from only the past few years) for anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks plus assorted smaller ones.

Scrounge around, wheel and deal, and you'll find what you need. Lots of enthusiasts are sitting on gear they've replaced, but will part with for a reasonable cost. I've bought very few new things for this hobby.

I'm a gear junkie, and I know it. Good luck to you.

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#127212 - 01/23/10 05:33 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: skippy]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Originally Posted By skippy
an off brand leaky %$&*# tent made our sleeping bags into sponges.


Your experience highlights a real paradox with tents. You only need a tent in bad weather to shelter you from the elements. Generally only a quality tent will work in foul conditions. A poor quality shelter that doesn't work in bad weather is worse than useless.

There are two ways of dealing with this. 1) Only go out in good weather. The problem here is that weather forecasts aren't necessarily all that accurate. 2) Carry a tarp, as large and lightweight as possible. I backpacked for eyars with only a tarp, generally a GI surplus poncho as shelter - worked fine with my first quality down bag. Only a few years ago I and a friend did a multi-day trip in the Gila Wilderness in early November. We encountered rail, hail, lightning, and high winds. Our shelter was a 10x12 blue tarp right out of the local home center. It worked splendidly (by this time, I had at least two shelters in my stash that I could have chosen, but the tarp was perfect for the job).

You need to learn a bit to pitch a tarp correctly; a reasonable command of knotcraft is extremely valuable,as is a developed eye for selecting a good site for your shelter. You will need this last skill whatever shelter you deploy. I have seen top of the line North Face alpine tents shredded due to improper placement, otherwise known as P.I.S.S. (Poorly Implemented Site Selection).

You will want to acquire a good shelter soon enough, but I just wouldn't put it in that high a priority. After all, what are friends for, if not to loan you a good tent? I would also recommend renting for a trip or two to get an idea of what will work for you. A quality shelter doesn't automatically mean expensive. And as always - workable, lightweight, cheap - choose two of the three, tends to be the case. Gain knowledge and experience and you will learn what you want for good gear, not just shelters.

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#127214 - 01/23/10 05:56 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: oldranger]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
As old ranger points out, most really light cheap gear is only good for nice weather. Hey if you're only going out in nice weather you don't need much, but if the weather turns fowl, that STUFF THAT SEEMED SO LIGHT WEIGHT AND COOL from wallys and the thrift store might fail miserably. After you've had a few tents shred and gotten soaking wet under tarps and had a sponge for a sleeping bag etc etc, you will either give it up, or get more bombproof of gear. Bombproof gear is not light or cheap. To keep my pack down to the 20 to 25 pounds range I leave a lot of things at home so I can carry the core items that will stand up to anything unexpected. Anyone starting out with unknown gear should try not to be out in bad weather or too far from their car.
Jim
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#127218 - 01/23/10 06:21 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: oldranger]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: Australia
The first thing I after reading the OP's comments was to look at that link . As I was going through the items I jotted down some figures (my guesses). Those numbers were identical to the ones guessed by Glenn..
I am in two minds about this.
I have no doubt that the kit advertised is not going to be a keeper, however one has to start somewhere. For example with tents (my favourite subject...) you need to try a few designs to see what you can put up with . The idea is to find the lightest smallest affordable shelter that is not going to drive you crazy if stuck in it for a day or two...
The ideal pack is the one that feels most comfortable to you for the load you carry.
But again I have seen people with "potato sacks" that they think are comfortable.
So maybe that kit could be a start, however the ideal solution (IMHO) is the one suggested by Oldranger. Find a group of hikers with spare gear (we all have some...) so that you can try different bits and pieces and see what works for you.
Buying your mates a few burgers and some beer will be a lot cheaper than buying stuff till you are happy with. And that almost never happens because there is always something new...
Franco

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#127237 - 01/24/10 09:52 AM Re: First time gear help [Re: Dragon]
Boomer Offline
member

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 98
Loc: Minnesota,USA
second the statements that theirs alot of people in MN who are sitting on old gear!!!!!!
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Modern civilized man, sated with artificialities and luxury, were wont, when he returns to the primeval mountains, to find among their caves his prehistoric brother, alive and unchanged. -Guido Rey

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#127256 - 01/24/10 03:21 PM Re: First time gear help [Re: oldranger]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
When I was first in boy scouts we used plastic tarps for camping. I was excited when I saved enough money to buy a tent. I carried a tent for privacy when I camped with a girl friend. When my wife gave up on hiking and camping I converted back to a tarp.

I prefer a hammock for prolonged foul weather, but a tarp is a close second.

When you leave your cat out in a storm it will find someplace to stay dry. I like to think that I am as smart as my cats. Location, location, location.


Edited by food (01/24/10 03:22 PM)
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