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#116392 - 05/22/09 10:03 AM Backpacking gear advice help needed
NorCalGuy Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 7
Loc: San Francisco, California
Ok so I am NOOB backpacker and I am putting together my kit. I made a list of stuff I have read that seems like a good idea for my friend and I to bring.

My QUESTION to you is… What on this list in useless (can be taken off) and what needs to be added on? Clothing, first aid kit and food are a separate list… just looking for gear advice on this post.

I am going to the Sierras in Northern California btw…

□ GPS
□ Extra GPS batteries
□ .410 shotgun
□ .410 shotgun Slugs
□ .410 shotgun 6-7 ½ shot
□ Bear Vault BV500
□ Backpack
□ Sleeping bag
□ Magnesium striker
□ Waterproof matches
□ Waterproof match box
□ Tent
□ Water treatment
□ Water Bottles (2)
□ LED flashlight or head lamp
□ Extra flashlight batteries
□ Snake bite kit
□ Stuff sacks
□ Dry bag for wet cloths
□ Pari-cord
□ Insect repellant
□ Sun block
□ Chap stick
□ Swimming trunks
□ Map w/ protective case
□ Compass
□ Cooking stove
□ Stove fuel
□ Sunglasses
□ Multi tool
□ Whistle
□ Signal mirror
□ Giant orange garbage bag
□ Camping toilet paper
□ Knife
□ Log book
□ Pen/ Pencil
□ Fishing gear
□ Harmonica
□ Required paperwork
□ Photo ID
□ Trip itinerary
□ List of phone numbers
□ Resalable plastic bags
□ Camera
□ Travel towel
□ Duct tape
□ Left trip itinerary with friend
□ Reflective blanket
□ Axe
□ Shovel
□ Cash $$$

(Clothing, first aid kit and food are a separate list )

Thanks so much!!!

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#116394 - 05/22/09 11:55 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: NorCalGuy]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
In my opinion you have just about everything you need plus a lot more. One thing I would add would be a butane lighter for regular use and save the sparker for emergencies. The matches are not as waterproof as the lighter. Also, I don't see raingear on the list.

Now, going down your list to suggest things you can leave behind:
If you are going to be staying on trails, leave the GPS behind and its spare batteries. You'll save nearly a pound here.
Unless you will be going in hunting season, I don't see any real need for the shotgun or its ammo. You will save between 5 and 10 pounds here.
Unless you are going to where the Bear Vault is required use an Ursack instead. You will save nearly 2 lb.
You won't need the snake bite kit. These are no longer recommended treatment for snake bite. Minus a few ounces
The multi tools that I am familiar with are heavy (3-5 oz) and have features that are not needed. I use a Swiss Army (Victorinox) Executive at 1.5 oz.
If you will be wearing underwear, use that for swimming and leave the trunks at home. Minus perhaps 6 oz.
Not sure what the giant orange garbage bag is for, you can carry your garbage in a 1 gal ziplock
If you are taking a multi-tool or small Swiss Army knife you won't need another knife.
The axe and the shovel are unnecessary and heavy.
You can use a tent stake or a stick for the potty trowel.
The reflective blanket will be unnecessary if you have the proper gear.

This is just my first pass through your list. I am certain that others on this forum will have their suggestions as well. One thing, it would be helpful if we were to know what kind of tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad and pack you plan to use. Poor choice of these items can make your pack ten to fifteen pounds heavier than necessary.

Good luck with getting ready.

One other thing, a proper selection of clothing can work as part of your sleep system. A lot of people on this forum, including me, will carry a sleeping bag weighing a bit more than a pound and then wear some or all of their clothing to bed to extend the temperature range of the bag. So, don't separate clothing from your gear list it is an unworkable distinction.


Edited by Pika (05/22/09 11:57 AM)
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#116395 - 05/22/09 12:13 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: NorCalGuy]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
For me, the shotgun, fishing gear, and harmonica would be off the list. However, if you have a valid need (and hunting, fishing, and making music are valid needs - we all have our own forms of recreation) leave them in. You probably shouldn't count on catching fish or finding game to eat, though; take along enough food for when you come up empty hunting or fishing.

One other thought: you include a list of phone numbers, which infers that you'll be carrying your cell phone. Why not just program the numbers into it? (If you aren't carrying a cell phone, ignore this.)

"Dry bag for wet clothes" - how much wet clothing do you intend to generate? If you're talking about your swim trunks, just take a couple safety pins (which should be in your first aid/repair kit anyhow) and hang the swim trunks from your pack - they'll probably be dry pretty quickly.

Speaking of swim trunks: I hike in nylon shorts with a mesh liner (no extra underwear to carry.) On those hot summer days when I take a dip, I go in shorts and all, then just wear them until they dry (usually a couple of hours, at most.)

I would also agree with the first poster's suggestions.

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#116396 - 05/22/09 12:16 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: NorCalGuy]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
My random thoughts:

When you get the weight down, life becomes more enjoyable. Then you can also use a lighter backpack.
Clothing can easily go overboard with new backpackers. So it would help to see a list and weights of that; and list and weights of your First Aid Kit.

With thoughts on backpacking to see the mountains, I see some areas to cut down weight:

Remove:
“ .410 shotgun
.410 shotgun Slugs
.410 shotgun 6-7 ½ shot
Magnesium striker
Extra flashlight batteries (these should be the same as the GPS batteries)
Snake bite kit
Swimming trunks (hike in shorts or zip-off pants and swim in those)
Knife (use lightweight multitool; already has a knife)
Giant orange garbage bag (use the emergency blanket)
Axe
Shovel


Look at the big 4: backpack, sleeping bag, pad, tent. Those are usually the first items that kill. Those can all be lightweight and yet rugged.
I’ve posted partial weights of my list: http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpack...ea1113a817e.pdf

As you can see, I am extremely biased in hiking the light style, and I have learned a lot on this forum smile

Good luck in your adventures
-Barry

Edit: Wow PIKA and Glenn just beat me. Sorry if this post sounds the same.

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#116399 - 05/22/09 01:51 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: NorCalGuy]
NorCalGuy Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 7
Loc: San Francisco, California
All sounds like good advice! Thank you. I am on a few other forums and almost everyone has said the same. Especialy about the snake bite kit. The .410 shotgun is a backpacking 3lb gun. Should help protcect me fromthe crazy mountain sqirrles lol

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#116404 - 05/22/09 05:08 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: NorCalGuy]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I didn't see crampons and ice tools on the list.
I prefer a .44 over a 410 - its faster.
You list a camera, shotgun, and fishing tackle. Thats a lot of "Mission hardware" for one trip. Is this your first trip? If so - well - eventually you'll learn that every piece of gear doesn't have to go on every trip.
You won't find a lot of helpful friendly campers while carrying a shotgun camping, especially if you are not dressed in camo gear.
Jim just my $.02 worth YMMV
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116412 - 05/22/09 10:05 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: Jimshaw]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
How about adding a pot, a spoon or spork, a cup and something to clean your hands with either soap or hand sanitizer?
_________________________
If I wouldn't eat it at home, why would I want to eat it on the trail?

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#116421 - 05/23/09 01:13 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: thecook]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
cook
quote
"How about adding a pot, a spoon or spork, a cup and something to clean your hands with either soap or hand sanitizer?"
_______________________________________________________
Actually I've been reading again - uh oh - hand sanitizers do not clean and they have to have 70% or more alcohol because its the alcohol that explodes the bodies of bacteria. Other ideas are that the 70% alcohol can be absorbed through your skin and isn't real good for you. And yet others suggest that it burns the eyes badly if it doesn't get rinsed off.
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116422 - 05/23/09 02:19 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: Jimshaw]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Depends on what kind of alcohol you have in the hand sanitizer; mostly they use ethanol (grain alcohol).

Alcohols are a family of chemicals ranging from the simplest, methanol, to some of the solid alcohols that I think are used in Esbit. Methanol is often called "wood alcohol" and is often used to denature (render undrinkable) ethanol, the active ingredient in beer, wine and booze. The bottle of GermX I have in my hand now contains 62% ethanol. I don't know whether they use denatured ethanol in it or just use it straight; I would guess the latter as a way of avoiding potential product liability issues.

One-hundred proof whiskey is 50% ethanol and some of the more potent rums are 70-80% ethanol: Two proof points equal one percent. Most people don't seem to worry about getting whiskey and rum on their hands or on/in their internal plumbing yet it contains about the same amount of ethanol as GermX; or even more. Using good booze as a hand sanitizer seems, to me, to be a low use of a noble product but it would likely serve just as well as the gel. One risk of using a good single-malt on your hands would be encountering a yuppie bear with a taste for Glenfiddich shocked

I take a small bottle of isopropynol (rubbing alcohol) with me for hand sanitizing. I don't like the Purel or GermX products because they leave a flowery scent which makes me worry about being sexually harassed by bears. eek Isopropynol leaves no scent. Moreover, if you get tired of that natural aroma that rises when you lift your arms sick , applying a splash of slightly diluted rubbing alcohol will temporarily relieve the problem.


Edited by Pika (05/23/09 03:03 PM)
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#116458 - 05/24/09 07:44 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: Pika]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
If you are going to a National Park (and maybe CA state parks?) the shotgun is illegal. Not just unnecessary, but Illegal. The only place you could use this is in a national forest during hunting season--and expect to get a TON of grief from fellow campers if you decide to spend the afternoon making really loud noises in the pristine wilderness.

Most people go to the mountains to get away from noisy neighbors. I do. And if you were shooting a shotgun off where I could hear it, I would find a way to let you know about it.

_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#116471 - 05/25/09 01:09 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: balzaccom]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Thanks to the NRA and Congress, concealed loaded weapons will be allowed in National Parks starting probably in February. I don't know what the rule will be regarding carrying a gun openly. The pro-gun argument is that the parks are full of crime and dangerous wild animals, so everyone should have a gun on them at all times. Personally, I don't buy these arguments at all, but apparently I'm in the minority.

I think I will stick to winter camping once these rules go into effect.


Edited by TomD (05/25/09 03:22 AM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#116478 - 05/25/09 10:02 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: TomD]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Tom, if I understand correctly, concealed carry in a National Park is only permitted if one holds a concealed carry permit for the state in which the park is located. I don't know whether state concealed carry permit reciprocity rules will apply. For example, I have an Arizona CCW which is recognized by Texas; would Big Bend NP recognize my permit? I believe that the rules against open carry are still in effect. Since holders of concealed carry permits usually have to go through some sort of vetting process, I'm not too worried that the National Parks will suddenly be filled with gunslinger wannabes.

I don't like the ruling either, but, I suspect that the new regulation will have minimal effect. At its worst, the parks will be like the National Forests where concealed and open carry are already legal. If, sometime in the near future, there are a few shootouts in crowded NP campgrounds, I'm sure the ruling will be reexamined.

The legislation was attached to the new credit card company regulation bill by some of the NRA's pet Republicans. So Democrats who wanted to see the credit card companies brought to heel had to vote for the guns in parks bill.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#116483 - 05/25/09 12:40 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: NorCalGuy]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I would remove:

.410 shotgun - anything you would shoot in self defense (such as bears) would merely be annoyed; anything you would shoot for food (doves, etc) would have to be in season, and then you'd get to clean them... if you are worried about people a 4 oz pepper spray from Longs shot in the eyeball works and is much easier to keep at the ready.
.410 shotgun Slugs
.410 shotgun 6-7 ½ shot
Magnesium striker - matches, emergency storm matches, and bic lighter will be lighter even if you carry all three
Snake bite kit - others have commented on this
Stuff sacks - take just enough to be organized
Dry bag for wet cloths - why? dry bags are to keep things dry. Wet clothes can be dried overnight if it's not raining, if you aren't packing cotton, or hang wet stuff on the pack.
Pari-cord - okay, but there are lighter alternatives like mason line, triptease, etc.
Map w/ protective case - map in a ziploc works fine.
Multi tool - and a knife? pick one.
Giant orange garbage bag - I use a trash compactor bag as a pack liner, drop cloth under my hammock, washing machine, or whatever else - it doesn't have to be 'giant'
Axe - if you can't break it with your hands it probably shouldn't go in the fire. in some Sierra locations fires aren't allowed anyway.
Shovel - unless this is a little trowel, it's not necessary. Some say a trowel isn't necessary either - sticks work too.

Weights of specific items can be cut by taking other items that work just as well - a bivy instead of a two person tent, for example - but those are personal choices to be made depending on your level of comfort and experience with backpacking.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#116485 - 05/25/09 01:05 PM Backpacking gear advice (What Lori said) [Re: Pika]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA

All good advice here but I think Lori summed it up best. Re-read her post. An axe and shovel are strictly car camping tools unless you're horse packing and setting up a long-term base camp AND fires are permitted in your area. Ned a potty trowel. Most of us have found a wider aluminum snow stake works great.

** My very BEST advice is to get Don Ladigin's excellent little book "Lighten Up!". With the great illustrations by Mike Clelland it is, without doubt, the one book new backpackers need to read first, before buying anything - BEFORE buying anything.**

Then go to a store that specializes in backpacking gear, like REI or, especially, Go-Lite and get an EXPERIENCED lightweight backpacking clerk to answer your questions. For example, getting a proper fitting pack is essential. But the pack is the last thing you buy. (Ya gotta see if all your other gear will fit into your chosen pack.)

Good luck. And don't forget to post at this site all the new gear you found you shouldn't have bought and now want to sell! Someone will want it for car camping, winter camping, etc.

Eric

_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#116500 - 05/25/09 06:09 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: Pika]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Pika, I think you are right about the need for a state CCW, but the problem I see is how do you enforce the rule once people get the idea they can carry a weapon? Very few people in CA have such permits, but I am sure some people will either not be aware of that aspect of the rule, won't have a permit or have one from another state, which I don't think are valid in CA (could be wrong on that) or just ignore the rule as a "technicality" based on whatever the NRA tells them they can do.

Rules like these just encourage more firearms in the parks, which I think is a bad idea. I understand most people are law abiding, etc., but let's face it, this country is awash in firearms and gun violence is an everyday occurrence. Maybe you don't see it where you are, but in LA, people get shot every day, mostly for trivial reasons.

My other concern is that the NRA has promoted the idea that parks are dangerous and you need a gun on you at all times. That's how they got the law passed. This is nonsense, but it will encourage people who don't know any better to pull out a gun the first time they see a wild animal or hear a noise at night and start shooting at it because they think they are protecting themselves or their family.

I don't envision a shootout, but I do think we will see some dead or wounded bears and likely a kid or two get shot by someone who thinks they heard a bear.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#116501 - 05/25/09 06:47 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: TomD]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I think you are right about the dead or wounded bears or kids or possibly even an inebriated adult or two. I also agree that the NRA was disingenuous, at best, when it painted the National Parks as dangerous places.

I don't think that any other states have CCW reciprocity with California. The requirements in CA are almost as stringent as for NYC.

I am a gun owner and a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment but I also cordially loathe the NRA. It is an organization with highly paid executives, equally highly paid lobbyists and huge budgets. I can't think of any other single-interest pressure group that can make nearly half of our Congress roll over and present the requested orifice as easily as the NRA; the NEA may run a close second but on the other side of the aisle.

I am philosophically opposed to any undue concentration of political power be it by political parties, churches, corporations, bankers, the military, college professors or gun owners. To me the NRA represents just such a concentration.

I used to be an NRA member because it was required to participate in sanctioned pistol matches and because I felt that it worked to protect gun owners rights. Now that my vision has caught up with my age, I no longer compete. Now that I have presumably grown wiser with age, I have come to believe that the NRA is primarily interested in its continued existence. For these reasons, I am no longer a member.

Yes, it has gun safety programs and sanctions a lot of competitive shooting matches so it does some good. But its continuing intransigence regarding any form of reasonable restrictions on, or qualifications for, gun ownership gets discouraging after a while.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#116533 - 05/26/09 11:57 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: TomD]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Tom,

It is my understanding that the purpose is that there are public highways that go through National Parks. For Rocky Mountain National Park many people that live in Grand Lake drive through the Park to access shopping and jobs on the other side.


The rule is intended to benefit the locals. I doubt that it will have unintended negative consequences.

Th folks that think they need to carry to go into the backcountry now hike on Forest Service land. Some of those folks might return to the NPs, but I doubt any substantial change.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#116565 - 05/26/09 09:04 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: TomD]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods
"based on whatever the NRA tells them they can do"

If we want to start another thread about the merits of the NRA, then we can do that. Otherwise, can we keep to the topic and not have comments such as this.

I am a member of the NRA and I make my own decsisions, thank you very much.

I am also a member of the Texas State Rifle Association.

I believe the 2nd Amendment guarantees the individual citizen's right to bear arms....anytime, anywhere; provided they have established they are not convicted felons.
_________________________
If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you can't. Either way, you're right.

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#116713 - 05/29/09 11:11 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: ringtail]
MountainMinstrel Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 107
I had a chance to talk to a couple of Yosemite Cops last weekend. When asked what they thought about this law they said that it really would not make a lot of difference for them. The reason being that the people they would have problems with gun possesion are the criminal types. Those types will carry whether it is legal or not so it makes no difference to them.
_________________________
Just an old newbe

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#116716 - 05/29/09 11:24 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: TomD]
jehan Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 21
Loc: texas, usa
Originally Posted By TomD
Pika, I think you are right about the need for a state CCW, but the problem I see is how do you enforce the rule once people get the idea they can carry a weapon? Very few people in CA have such permits, but I am sure some people will either not be aware of that aspect of the rule, won't have a permit or have one from another state, which I don't think are valid in CA (could be wrong on that) or just ignore the rule as a "technicality" based on whatever the NRA tells them they can do.

Rules like these just encourage more firearms in the parks, which I think is a bad idea. I understand most people are law abiding, etc., but let's face it, this country is awash in firearms and gun violence is an everyday occurrence. Maybe you don't see it where you are, but in LA, people get shot every day, mostly for trivial reasons.

My other concern is that the NRA has promoted the idea that parks are dangerous and you need a gun on you at all times. That's how they got the law passed. This is nonsense, but it will encourage people who don't know any better to pull out a gun the first time they see a wild animal or hear a noise at night and start shooting at it because they think they are protecting themselves or their family.

I don't envision a shootout, but I do think we will see some dead or wounded bears and likely a kid or two get shot by someone who thinks they heard a bear.



i think perhaps you are falling victim to the very fear that you described- you're afraid people who have little experience with camping will hurt wildlife and/or ruin your camping experience.
these people lack experience backpacking, but they make claims about backpacking

you lack experience with firearms, yet you make claims about firearms- you are concerned that people will use them irresponsibly.

I am a firearms enthusiast. I go to the range for a couple of hours a month and shoot paper targets. My guns have never hurt anyone/anything, and I hope they never have to.

in an attempt to assuage your fears, I can assure you that the people that use firearms irresponsibly were probably already carrying in parks. idiots/criminals will be idiots/criminals no matter what the law says. the only thing this new law has done is empower law abiding citizens to protect themselves from those very bad (and hopefully, very rare) situations that might come up. responsible firearm owners know to not shoot unless they have positively identified their target AND what's behind their target.
you carry a first aid kit hoping to never use it. I carry a firearm hoping to never use it.

that being said, a shotgun full of slugs and birdshot is probably the last thing I'd carry while camping. i do not support hunting for pleasure, and since you are going backpacking, anything you do will be for pleasure. carry food. foraging from nature means that that part of nature wont be there for the future.

as far as self defense, a large caliber hand gun will be the most effective tool to protect you from the boogey man. considerably easier to conceal, lighter weight, etc.

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#116728 - 05/29/09 04:02 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: jehan]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
jehan
I noticed that you did not fill out your profile, you are also a newbie here. I suggest that you read some of the reams of material that have been posted and debated here, prior to writing your first post about being a gun aficionado and knowing more, without knowing what has preceded your challenging post.

I'm just saying that Tom D has about a billion times more credibility than you do and you should begin posting about things like gear and camping, not guns.

Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116731 - 05/29/09 05:47 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: jehan]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By jehan


i think perhaps you are falling victim to the very fear that you described- you're afraid people who have little experience with camping will hurt wildlife and/or ruin your camping experience.
these people lack experience backpacking, but they make claims about backpacking

you lack experience with firearms, yet you make claims about firearms- you are concerned that people will use them irresponsibly.


I am concerned because people use *everything* irresponsibly.

I am concerned because people hang their food wrong, wash in the streams and leave their soap suds behind, dig catholes in the middle of established wilderness campgrounds, and while I expect you will likely not be among them, people use firearms extremely irresponsibly. I'm not even talking about criminals here. I am not a victim to fear, as many people who pack a gun they don't know how to use are - I am possessed of extensive experience with the depth and width of human shortsightedness and stupidity, as I have seen it in action. Perhaps my cynicism is excessive, but all people of every socioeconomic status do dumb stuff, including people who are licensed to carry. I almost feel that I should post most of my own family tree in this space as examples.

Quote:


as far as self defense, a large caliber hand gun will be the most effective tool to protect you from the boogey man. considerably easier to conceal, lighter weight, etc.


Only if I know how to use it and keep it in my hands at all times. Things happen very quickly and having a gun in my pack does nothing for me. Concealing it means it's not in my hand when a cougar jumps off the rock in front of me. I will continue to be prepared in other ways and leave the heavy metal objects to people who are blinded by their own self assurance. A gun is at its lightest when it is not on my person.

You may think guns are the best protection, but they are good protection only under certain circumstances, which you are not even showing signs of acknowledging. Jimshaw is right, you need to read the other threads about guns for a while and understand your audience better before posting pro-gun messages.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#116754 - 05/30/09 07:16 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: lori]
jehan Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 21
Loc: texas, usa
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
jehan
I noticed that you did not fill out your profile, you are also a newbie here. I suggest that you read some of the reams of material that have been posted and debated here, prior to writing your first post about being a gun aficionado and knowing more, without knowing what has preceded your challenging post.

I'm just saying that Tom D has about a billion times more credibility than you do and you should begin posting about things like gear and camping, not guns.

Jim crazy


nice ad hominem; do you have anything useful to say, or do you just enjoy the sound of keys clicking?



Originally Posted By lori


I am concerned because people use *everything* irresponsibly.

I am concerned because people hang their food wrong, wash in the streams and leave their soap suds behind, dig catholes in the middle of established wilderness campgrounds, and while I expect you will likely not be among them, people use firearms extremely irresponsibly. I'm not even talking about criminals here. I am not a victim to fear, as many people who pack a gun they don't know how to use are - I am possessed of extensive experience with the depth and width of human shortsightedness and stupidity, as I have seen it in action. Perhaps my cynicism is excessive, but all people of every socioeconomic status do dumb stuff, including people who are licensed to carry. I almost feel that I should post most of my own family tree in this space as examples.

...

Only if I know how to use it and keep it in my hands at all times. Things happen very quickly and having a gun in my pack does nothing for me. Concealing it means it's not in my hand when a cougar jumps off the rock in front of me. I will continue to be prepared in other ways and leave the heavy metal objects to people who are blinded by their own self assurance. A gun is at its lightest when it is not on my person.

You may think guns are the best protection, but they are good protection only under certain circumstances, which you are not even showing signs of acknowledging. Jimshaw is right, you need to read the other threads about guns for a while and understand your audience better before posting pro-gun messages.


there are dozens of different types of holsters that allow you to keep a firearm safely on your person, and readily accessible.

my concern (and probably others') isn't so much with wildlife as it is with people on the other side of the spectrum of stupidity-

from: http://www.chadrad.com/newsstory.cfm?story=14472
Quote:


According to the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service, in 2006 there were 16 homicides, 41 rape cases, 92 robberies, 16 kidnappings and 333 aggravated assaults handled by national park and refuge law enforcement.



camping is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. a lot more people will enjoy themselves if they know that they can better mitigate certain very real risks.
i want everyone to be able to enjoy camping. and if a 120 lb woman is worried about being robbed/raped/killed, then she's less likely to go camping. so, empowering her with the ability to protect herself will make it more likely that she will go camping.

and i don't think guns are the best protection. people should definitely be prepared in other ways- situational awareness, etc. a firearm is merely an equalizer between myself, and the boogey man

i certainly look forward to reading other posts, and thank you for your respectfully worded reply.

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#116757 - 05/30/09 11:59 PM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: jehan]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By jehan



there are dozens of different types of holsters that allow you to keep a firearm safely on your person, and readily accessible.
...
i want everyone to be able to enjoy camping. and if a 120 lb woman is worried about being robbed/raped/killed, then she's less likely to go camping. so, empowering her with the ability to protect herself will make it more likely that she will go camping.


I don't have to carry a gun - I'm not afraid. I don't want or need a holster or a gun. Period.

There are more guns in the town I live in than there are in your entire state, I would wager. Kids shoot other kids every day. I am far more likely to be in danger walking down the street than I am backpacking.

I think you overstate the fear factor - 90% of the people I know don't go backpacking or camping because they like hot showers and don't care to work that hard. They rent cabins or hotel rooms. The rest of the people I know go out hiking, unafraid, without guns.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#116759 - 05/31/09 07:58 AM Re: Backpacking gear advice help needed [Re: lori]
jehan Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 21
Loc: texas, usa
Originally Posted By lori


I don't have to carry a gun - I'm not afraid. I don't want or need a holster or a gun. Period.

There are more guns in the town I live in than there are in your entire state, I would wager. Kids shoot other kids every day. I am far more likely to be in danger walking down the street than I am backpacking.

I think you overstate the fear factor - 90% of the people I know don't go backpacking or camping because they like hot showers and don't care to work that hard. They rent cabins or hotel rooms. The rest of the people I know go out hiking, unafraid, without guns.


that's nice that you are unafraid, but not everyone can be as confident in their ability to out-muscle the competition.
i'm from texas, so depending on what town you live in, there could be more guns. in my town, lots of people might be carrying guns- everyone conceal carries, and as such, the bad guys don't know who's a good target, and who isn't
but, I think the number of guns you see, and the way they're employed is probably influencing your view on guns. if you saw cars violently engaged in demolition derby type driving all day long, you probably wouldn't want them around either; the gun is a tool, and just because some people misuse them, that doesn't mean we should strip others of the right to have them.
i agree with you that lots of people don't camp because they don't want to work hard. but, there are some that don't go out of fear- and them having a gun on their persons in order to defend themselves wont affect you in any negative way, you won't even notice them.

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